German notes - Breeding & Bloodstock - Racehorse TALK
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German notes - Breeding & Bloodstock - Racehorse TALK

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Offline j.r.b.

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O.P. « 2019-Jun-15, 07:47 PM »
As we’ve had some interest from Germany recently, and quite a few a German bred horses end up on our shores, I thought I’d start a thread.

I’ll kick off with mentioning that very useful and unbeaten German filly, Amarena, goes around in tomorrow’s Prix de Diane (French Oaks), having been supplemented for the race at considerable expense. Alas she’s drawn out very wide, which can be a real problem at a Chantilly.

Amarena’s already tasted stakes success in France following on from her successful debut at home. She’s by Soldier Hollow ex a Tiger Hill mare, so she’s got very solid German roots.

But she’s not really a German filly anymore I guess, having been purchased by Japanese interests after her last start.

Offline Birkhahn

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« 2019-Jun-17, 08:37 AM Reply #1 »
Hello,
I#m not quite sure, whether I should post it in this thread.

Plucky Liege and Catnip are mentioned int the Topic "Rce records of International Champions.

I would like to Pointout both great broodmares had been introcuded to Germany. At first "Plucky Liege":
It's a damline, which is established in Germany, the foundationmare is 'Prompt Payment' (by Rockfella, imported during the Fifties) and further back to Plucky Liege, her daughter 'Noor Jahan' is a FS of Sir Gallahad/Bull Dog. From the German branch are Protektor (by Acatenango), a very though racehorse (raced until 9 Years old, good Sire), Panthere (by Acatenango) and more recently 'Poldi's Liebling' (by Tai Chi). Interestingly to the same "Family" belongs Sanctus (see Miesque and her offspring).
When you go back to Peseta (by Neckar), she combined both broodmares.

Other descents of abovementioned broodmare are to find in France, England, U.S and Japan, see Gothenberg, Chief Singer, Winged Love (stood a few seasons in Germany), Pleasantly Perfect, Gipsy River, Distant View, Cherir, Cesario, Fidelity etc. According my notes "Mother Mary" (by Lyphard) was sent to NZ.

 
The foundationmare in Germany was Nella da Gubbio (by Grand Parade) a granddaughter of Catnip. She purchased from Mr. Tesio during the 1920's. She pretty soon a success with Nereide (By Laland), an unbeaten filly (10 Starts, 10 wins, including the "German Derby), she had 2 sons Nordlicht und Nuvolari, both by Oleander and a filly foal by Pharis, which unfortunately died. So her direct damline was lost for ever.

She had a HS Nanon (by Graf Isolani), who was able to continuated the damline. During the last decade the Nella da Gubbio Family had a great "comeback", after a longer lull.

Especially "Nightrockette" (by Rocket) turned out a very good broodmare.
Nightrockette (Rocket)- Night Petticoat (Petoski)- Next Gina (Perugino)/Next Desert (Desert Style)
Nightrockette-Night Teeny (Platini)-Night of Magic (Peintre Celebre)
"           "        - Neele (Peintre Celebre)-Nymphea (Dylan Thomas)
Nutan (Duke of Marmalade), Navaro Girl (Holy Roman Emperor)

Night of Magic(Peintre Celebre)-Nightflower (Dylan Thomas)
                                                     Nimrod (High Chaparral)

Night Dance (Shareef Dancer)-Nightdance Paolo (Paolini)
                                               -Nightdance Forest (Charnwood Forest)

via a different branch Night Magic (by Sholokhov) and Novellist (Monsun, Sire) both were sent to Japan.

I shouldn't forget Nebos (by Caro). When you check his ped, you will see, he is four times linebred to Catnip.

regards, Birkhahn


Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-Jun-17, 11:45 AM Reply #2 »
Birk

I don't know whether you know but the reference to Catnip in the other thread was made ( I think) due to her Aussie connection via Carbine.

One of our greatest and venerated thoroughbreds.

In the top five or six in any noted list of our Greatest if not in the top three or four.

Offline Birkhahn

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« 2019-Jun-17, 06:53 PM Reply #3 »
Hello,
yes, I do know "Carbine" is a stalwart in Australian breeding.

I wanted to "show" his Connection with German damlines via his most prominent daughters.

Spearmint was his best known "son". May 'fourlegged namesake' Birkhahn (by Alchimist, foaled 1945), Very good racehorse and even better Sire, you will spot his Name in almost every German damline. He carries an uncommon strain. His dam Bramouse is by Cappiello - Spion Kop - Spearmint - Carbine.

Btw, his HB Carnage (by Nordenfeld) stood from 1898 atleast til 1906 at the "Graditz Stud" near Torgau in Germany, as a historical info.

regards, Birkhahn

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Jun-17, 10:06 PM Reply #4 »

How credible is German racing?

It is a while back but, in Berlin, I was keen to attend a race meeting.

The 'hippodrome' was well out of town and there were very few people attending a very lack-luster course.

.... there was nothing about the day to suggest following the local form.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2019-Jun-18, 07:08 AM Reply #5 »
Oh dear, great contribution Peter, now you’re putting the boot into German racing

Offline Birkhahn

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« 2019-Jun-20, 05:54 PM Reply #6 »
Hello,
you are referring to our biggest Racetrack "Hoppegarten" near Berlin.

It seems quite some time ago, since you have been there. A lot of
things have changed. Meanwhile the racetrack is privately owned by
Mr. Schöningh, who purchased the track. For more info see their Website "Hoppegarten.com". There's an english info available, see "International Racing".

A Report about Hoppegarten was broadcasted by the reginal TV Station some month ago. Their Website "RBB.de.", go to "Mediathek", the Title is "Geheimnisvolle Orte: Hoppengarten". Maybe it's still available, the Access is only available for a few days. If a rerun will be broadcasted, I let you know.

regards, Birkhahn


Online wily ole dog

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« 2019-Jun-21, 07:09 AM Reply #7 »
Hello,
you are referring to our biggest Racetrack "Hoppegarten" near Berlin.

It seems quite some time ago, since you have been there. A lot of
things have changed.


Birkhahn, you’ll come to learn that that sort of thing doesn’t matter to Peter Mair.
He’ll make his judgment based on what he wants to believe not facts  :biggrin:

When’s the next big German race meeting?


Offline Birkhahn

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« 2019-Jun-23, 10:54 PM Reply #8 »
Hello,
the next big Meeting is the "Hamburg Racing Week", actually 9 days, from 29.6.19 - 08.07.19, with the Grand Final "The German Derby", this season it will an Anniversary : The 150th  German Derby!

At each Racing day, a Group race will be run: Saturday 29.6.19,
Hamburger Flieger Preis (a sprint race, 1200 meter), Group 3; Sunday 30.6.19, Gr. Hansa Preis (2400 meter, Group 2); Wednesday 3.7.19, Holstein Cup (1600 meter, fillies, Group 3), Thursday 4.7.19, Preis von LOTTO Hamburg (2000 meter, Group 3), Saturday 6.7.19, Mehl-Mülhens Trophy (2200 meter, fillies, Group 3) and Sunday 8.7.19, "150th German Derby" (2400 meter, Colts/Filles, Group 1)

Traditionally the "Derby" is the first 'Group 1' race every racing season in Germany.

Best regards from Germany, Birkhahn

Offline Birkhahn

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« 2019-Jul-01, 08:39 AM Reply #9 »
Hello,
it's only 1 week until the "German Derby". This season it will be an anniversary, because it's "The 150th German Derby".

Sometime ago I did a survey about the race with their winners, Sire Lines and imported Broodmare.

Hope you will find informative and enlighting:

History of the German Derby

Before the next “running” of the most famous race of each country racing Thoroughbreds a few information you might find interesting and enlighting.

The first “German Derby” was run in 1869 at the race track at Hamburg Horn, at first named “Northern German Derby” some years later “German Derby” over the Classical distance of 2400 meters, which is a bit shorter than the “English Derby”. With a few exceptions is was run at the same track, in 1943/44 it went to Hoppegarten (Berlin, because of the II. WW), no race in 1945, 1946 at Munich, 1947 Cologne and in 1948 it returned to Hamburg. Eligible only for colt and fillies, no geldings! Usually the date is the first Sunday in July, for some reasons it can be moved to another weekend, but at very rare occasions.

Here is a "Shortlist" of German Derby winners, most out of memory, which are closely inbred.
I will start with the earliest one.

Landgraf 2 x 4 Sterling
Fels 3 x 4 Hermit
Ferro 3 x 4 Dorothea/Energy FB/FS
Alchimist 3 x 3 Ard Patrick
Schwarzgold 3 x 4 Dark Ronald (filly)
Magnat 4 x 4 Dark Ronald
Orsini 2 x 3 Athanasius + 4 x 4 x 5 Laland
Allasch 3 x 3 Wallenstein
Neckar 4 x 4 Dark Ronald + 4 x 4 Aversion
Mangon 3 x 3 Grollenicht/Graf Ferry (FB/FS) + 4 x 4 Pergolese
Lustige 4 x 4 Dark Ronald (filly)
Lando 3 x 3 Literat/Liberty (FB/FS)
Kamsin 3 x 4 Surumu, 4 x 4 Sadlers Wells
Adlerflug 3 x 4 ND + 4 x 4 Mill Reef
 
Certainly there more inbred Derby Winners, that's what I could see in a short time.


Ladies First (Fillies winning the German Derby):
Amalie von Edelreich (GD 1873)
Palmyra (GD 1875)
Künstlerin (GD 1879)
Budagyöngye (GD 1885) daughter of Kincsem (54 starts, unbeaten)
Patience (GD 1905)
Pontresina (GD 1915)
Nereide (GD 1936) unbeaten
Schwarzgold (GD 1940)
Asterblüte (GD 1949) ancestress of Galileo, King's Best
Lustige (GD 1955)
Borgia (GD 1997)


It runs in the family:
German Damlines producing several Derby winners through decades:

Alveole (Crafton) – St. Alvere (Hermit):
Ariel, Alchimist, Alba, Abendfrieden, Graf Isolani, Allgäu, Allasch, Ako, Asterblüte, Athenagoras, Adlerflug
Baalim, Belenus
Fanfar

Nella da Gubbio (Grand Parade) - Nera di Bicci (Tracery):
Nereide, Nordlicht, Neckar, Niederländer, Next Desert, Nutan

Schwarze Kutte (Black Jester) - Raiment (William the Third):
Sturmvogel, Schwarzgold, Stuyvesant

Lovely Naples (Vencedor) - Napoule (Bachelor’s Double):
Lauscher, Lando, Laroche

Kaiserwürde (Bubbles) - Katinka (Biribi):
Königsstuhl, Karloff, Kamsin

Waldrun (Alchimist) – Walburga (Aurelius):
Wilderer, Waidmann, Waldpark


Broodmares with 2 Derby winners:

Kirschfliege (Kaliber, Kilometer)
Ordinate (Orofino; Ordos)
Laurea (Lando, Laroche)
Britannia (Borgia, Boreal)
Sacarina (Samum, Schiaparelli)
Wellenspiel (Windstoß, Weltstar)

Special mention:

Nereide (Derby Winner) is the dam of another Derby winner Nordlicht (by Oleander) and 3rd placed Nuvolari (by Oleander)
Ordinate had besides the 2 Derby winners (Ordos, Orofino), Orfano, the 4thplaced GD 1986
Sacarina’s (Samum, Schiaparelli), daughter Salve Regina was second placed GD 2002
So Sedelous had 4 starters in the German Derby: Shirocco (Derby winner 2004), second placed Subiaco (GD 2000), 3rdplaced Storm Trooper (GD 2003) all by Monsun and last past the post Satchmo (by Surumu) GD 1999


Sires with more than 2 Derby winners

Hannibal (4 Derby Winners)
Fels, Sieger, Arnfried, Gulliver II,

Ticino (4 Derby Winners)
Niederländer, Neckar, Lustige, Orsini

Orsini (4 Derby Winners)
Ilix, Elviro, Don Giovanni, Marduk

Buccaneer (3 Derby Winners)
Amalie von Edelreich, Pirat, Budagyöngye

Chamant (3 Derby Winners)
Peter, Potrimpos, Habenichts

Kisber (3 Derby Winners)
Sperber, Impuls, Trollhetta

Neckar (3 Derby Winners)
Wilderer, Zank, Waidwerk

Surumu (3 Derby Winners)
Acatenango, Mondrian, Temporal

Acatenango (3 Derby Winners)
Lando, Borgia, Nicaron

Monsun (3 Derby Winners)
Samum, Schiaparelli, Shirocco


Sire Lines

Louviers stands at the begin of a Sire Line in Germany which existed about sixty years and was extended for six generations! In this important Sire-line there turns up one of the best known, most influential and important sires in German thoroughbred breeding history and this is nobody else than „Ticino“. Now let’s have a look, how this line was developed:

Isinglass - Louviers – Landgraf (German Derby 1917) – Ferro (GD 1926) – Athanasius
(GD 1934) – Ticino (GD 1942) – Orsini (GD 1957) – Marduk (GD 1974)

Landgraf - Hausfreund (GD 1922)
   Ferro - Abendfrieden (GD 1937)
   Athanasius – Ticino (GD 1942)
            Orator – (Uomo GD 1959)
   Ticino - Niederländer (GD 1950), Neckar (GD 1951), Lustige (F) (GD 1955),
                            Orsini (GD 1957)
   Orsini - Ilix (GD 1966), Elviro (GD 1968), Don Giovanni (GD 1969),
                                Marduk GD 1974)
   Neckar - Wilderer (GD 1958), Zank (GD 1964), Waidwerk (GD 1965)

In all there were 19 German Derby Winners which stem from Louviers! When you know the German thoroughbred lines, you will soon realise how often sires of this branch turn up, even in contemporary Sires, Broodmares and racehorses.

The other still existing Sire Line is via Dark Ronald. Imported to Germany in 1913 and still regarded as most influential Sire in German Breeding History:

Dark Ronald – Herold (GD 1920) - Alchimist (GD 1930) - Birkhahn (GD 1948) – Literat Surumu (GD 1977) – Acatenango (GD 1985) – Lando (GD 1993)/Nicaron (GD 2005)

Dark Ronald had several other Derby winners via different Sire sons, see the below table:

Dark Ronald – Herold (GD 1920)
      Prunus – Mah Jong (GD 1927), Palastpage (GD 1932), Orgelton (GD 1938)
           Prunus – Oleander - Sturmvogel (GD 1935), Nordlicht (GD 1944)
           Wallenstein – Alba (GD 1930), Wehr Dich (GD 1939)
Herold – Lupus (GD 1928), Alchimist (GD 1933), Dionys (GD 1931)
         Arjaman – Wildling - Singlspieler (GD 1946)
Alchimist – Schwarzgold (GD 1940), Birkhahn (GD 1948)
      Gundomar – Mangon (GD 1952) - Baalim (GD 1961)
Birkhahn – Literat – Surumu (GD 1977)
   Birkhahn – Priamos – Stuyvesant (GD 1976)
Surumu – Acatenango (GD 1985), Mondrian (GD 1989), Temporal (GD 1991)
Acatenango – Lando (GD 1993), Borgia (GD 1997), Nicaron (GD 2005)
   
Literat started in the German Derby 1968, but had the misfortune to break down in the race and was only fifth placed in the Derby. Shortly afterwards he was retired and was put to stud at the new founded Fährhof Stud.

Interestingly the Bahram branch of the Blandford Sire Line was extended in my Home country as follows.

Blandford - Bahram – Persian Gulf – Tamerlane – Dschingis Khan – Königsstuhl
(GD 1979) - Monsun - Samum (GD 2000) – Kamsin (GD 2008)

Tamerlane –Alpenkönig (GD 1970)
   Dschingis Khan – Orofino (GD 1981), Königsstuhl (GD 1979)
      Königsstuhl – Pik König (GD 1992), Lavirco (GB 1996)
Königsstuhl – Monsun – Samum (GD 2000), Shirocco (GD 2004), Schiaparelli
(GD 2006)
   Samum – Kamsin (GD 2008)

German Studs/Owners (Derby winners):
Schlenderhan Stud (18 Derby winners, first winner „Sieger“ GB 1908), Georg v. Ullmann (1 Derby winner, winner "Shirocco" GB 2004)
Waldfried Stud (8 Derby winners, first winner „Fels“ GD 1906)
Graditz Stud (12 Derby winners, first winner „Potrimpos“ GD 1886)
M.I. Oppenheimer/Erlenhof Stud/Countess Batthyany (5 Derby winners, first winner „Graf Isolani“ GD 1929)
Baron G. Springer (Austria/Hungary, 19th Century)(4 Derby winners, the first winner „Palmyra“ GD 1875)
R. Haniel (4 Derby winners, the first winner „Turmfalke“ GD 1913)
Zoppenbroich Stud (4 Derby winners, first winner “Athenagoras” GD 1973)
Fährhof Stud (4 Derby winners, the first winner “Surumu“ GD 1977)


With kind regards from Germany,
Birkhahn

Offline nemisis

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« 2019-Jul-01, 01:39 PM Reply #10 »
Birkhahn, a lovely Galileo staying mare, that was bred in Germany won the main distance race here on the weekend......on very heavy going.

Igraine was purchased out of Germany after a short career there and anybody who watched  her plough through the mud in New Zealand last winter would have been waiting for her to get on to a wet track here.

Really beautiful staying mare.

Off to the breeding barn now I think.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2019-Jul-05, 09:05 PM Reply #11 »
Brikhahn, thought this may interest you

Top provincial-based trainer Kris Lees is using Saturday “as a learning experience” when German mare Attention Run makes her Australian debut in the Nathan’s Famous 3&4YO Benchmark 78 Handicap (1600m) at Randwick.

“Attention Run is the latest former foreigner set to be unleashed for successful syndicators Australian Bloodstock, who’ve previously brought to Australia the likes of Brave Smash, Tosen Stardom, Protectionist, Shraaoh and the consistent Big Duke.

Attention Run won two of eight starts in her former homeland, finishing third at Listed level behind Group I Preis der Diana winner Well Timed.”

Offline Gintara

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« 2019-Jul-06, 02:44 PM Reply #12 »
She looked to be dropping away topping the rise before powering home to get up on the line.

Another nice import for Australian Bloodstock   emthup

Offline Birkhahn

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« 2019-Jul-07, 06:12 AM Reply #13 »
Hello,
many thanks for all the info about the "Germanbred Horses" doing well in AUS/NZ.

regards, Birkhahn




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