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Special Commission of Inquiry into the Greyhound Racing Industry in NSW - Greyhounds - Racehorse TALK

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Offline Arsenal

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« 2016-Jul-09, 08:50 AM Reply #50 »
Most of the coverage I've noticed is critical of Baird's decision .....the promises he has made to provide assistance to those affected would run into millions and there's the fate of the greyhounds to be considered .......it's inevitable that most won't find homes and will be euthanized  ...which is the main complaint about the current over breeding......and eventual disposal.......as we all know the Animal Shelters run by the RSPCA try to find homes for rescue animals ..those that don't get adopted finish on death row.
In the CM today the Secretary/Manager of the Tweed Heads Greyhound Track...which is an excellent facility..... is suggesting RQ take over jurisdiction of the track ...which might be a possibility as in years gone by the QHRB did the job for some of the time when trotting was held...but it's a Quixotic thought as Tweed Heads is not going to be included in QLD without a change in the border.
Maybe cooler heads will prevail and there may be some legal avenues available to stop the rot.

Giddy Up :beer: 
« Last Edit: 2016-Jul-09, 08:52 AM by Arsenal »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2016-Jul-09, 09:20 AM Reply #51 »
BLACK DOG SET TO BITE

THE voice of Queensland greyhound racing Paul Dolan is worried about the potentially catastrophic human toll of the NSW ban on the industry.

The respected racecaller, who called his first greyhound race in 1973, revealed his genuine fears for the welfare of desperate NSW greyhound trainers.

“If this ban goes ahead, it will cause immense personal and family trauma and it could lead to suicides,” Dolan told The Courier-Mail yesterday.

“You would have the same worry in any industry if there were similar circumstances of hundreds of people suddenly losing their jobs.

“The NSW Government has destroyed the livelihood of many families who have invested, in some cases, hundreds of thousands of dollars in their greyhound businesses.”

Dolan’s comments come after NSW Premier Mike Baird’s announcement on Thursday that greyhound racing would be shut down in that state from July 1 next year.

The decision was made in response to a report by former High Court judge Michael McHugh, which stemmed from last year’s live baiting scandal and found between 48,000 and 68,000 greyhounds were killed in the past 12 years because they were deemed “uncompetitive”.

Mr Baird described the report as “chilling”, “confronting” and “horrific” and said the “only humane response” was to shut down the industry.

The ruling prompted the sport’s bosses to order an immediate seven-day shutdown of the NSW industry.

However, late yesterday one of the state’s biggest racing carnivals received a lastminute reprieve, with Grafton club boss John Corrigan convincing Greyhound Racing NSW officials to allow them to race next Monday, Wednesday and Friday as scheduled.

Dolan said he simply couldn’t understand the NSW ban, but he is heartened the Queensland Government are making the right noises to back the industry in this state.

“There are a small number of bad apples in any industry,” Dolan said.

“But in my long involvement in greyhound racing, the vast majority of people are not only passionate about racing their greyhounds but they absolutely love the animals.

“It has been quite a while since the (live baiting) scandal, and I think Queensland has been very proactive in cleaning up the industry.

“No doubt the animal welfare people are claiming this is a victory but that is hypocritical because they put down thousands of animals every year.”

Following Thursday’s announcement, Queensland Racing Minister Grace Grace said the Palaszczuk Government remained committed to the recommendations of the Mac-Sporran Commission of Inquiry into the sport, but issued a warning to those who break the law that they “will be caught”.

That stance was backed yesterday by Opposition Leader Tim Nicholls, who said the LNP did not want to see animals come to harm but stressed trainers who did the right thing shouldn’t lose their livelihoods due to a “few bad apples”.

“In government, we doubled the penalty for animal cruelty and we took a very strong stance against animal cruelty,” Mr Nicholls said.

“We continue to support a properly regulated and properly performing greyhound industry here in Queensland. There are many people who not only enjoy betting on the greyhounds but also enjoy being part of the industry.”

Mr Nicholls said the industry supported a number of jobs throughout the state, particularly in the southeast corner. The NSW ban has plenty of ramifications for the Queensland greyhound industry.

There is the potential for more greyhound meetings in Queensland as NSW trainers could send their dogs north.

Despite the uncertainty, Dolan, who cares for two retired racing greyhounds at his Caboolture property, believes the Queensland greyhound industry has a positive future.

“The onus is now firmly on greyhound participants to do the right things,” he said.

If this ban goes ahead, it will cause immense

personal and family trauma

PAUL DOLAN
 


Giddy Up :beer:


Offline chalky

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« 2016-Jul-09, 10:26 AM Reply #52 »

Doesn't seem to matter as the clues all point to a stitch up from the start.

Are you of the belief that those participating in livebaiting (as well as those who turned a blind eye to the practise) were in fact doing so to destroy the industry?
« Last Edit: 2016-Jul-09, 10:28 AM by chalky »

Offline Gintara

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« 2016-Jul-09, 11:07 AM Reply #53 »
No Chalky I'm not (don't even know how you can read that into my comments)

The live baiting isn't the drama here, that a smaller issue, it started the ball rolling and opened the door for a commission which has found the wastage totally unacceptable.  The numbers used are flawed but that's nearly irrelevant as no one, both for or against would know a true figure.

My comments are based that it seems it was decided well before the commission handed it's finding - watch PV in the video Auth has posted, why did he know? How did he know?

The government sacked everybody and installed their own into running greyhounds in NSW, they have been in charge for 18 months! How can you say and industry can't change when it doesn't even control it's own destiny?

Racing classes have been catered for and sweeping breeding changes made yet we have a decision that doesn't even allow to see if these changes make a difference.  :shrug:

I can tell you the breeding rules alone (reduced numbers) & notifications of where dogs go would paint a true picture (good or bad) but we'll never know as it won't be tested to get the full picture.

All the changes have been for naught as Baird has just flicked the switch.  emthdown

 

Offline Gintara

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« 2016-Jul-09, 11:09 AM Reply #54 »
btw - why do you think the horse industry is trying to push through the foaling register?

They are worse than the dogs! They don't even know how many are born! At least the dogs have had this info for years with litters being registered.

Offline chalky

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« 2016-Jul-09, 11:15 AM Reply #55 »
No Chalky I'm not (don't even know how you can read that into my comments)

The live baiting isn't the drama here, that a smaller issue, it started the ball rolling and opened the door for a commission which has found the wastage totally unacceptable.  The numbers used are flawed but that's nearly irrelevant as no one, both for or against would know a true figure.

 

That is what I was getting at, the people doing the wrong thing have bought this on themselves and the industry.
If there was no commission then we wouldn't be at this point, not sure how it has been a stitch up.

Offline exit41

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« 2016-Jul-09, 11:49 AM Reply #56 »
Recommendation 64.

 If the racing codes cannot agree on a more equitable distribution of TAB revenue, the Parliament of New South Wales should legislate to amend the current arrangements by providing for a distribution that reflects each code’s contribution to TAB revenue.

If implemented it would cost thoroughbreds and harness about 20-25 million.

Less political fallout shutting down greyhound racing then taking that much money from the horses.

Offline arthur

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« 2016-Jul-09, 11:56 AM Reply #57 »
In the CM today the Secretary/Manager of the Tweed Heads Greyhound Track...which is an excellent facility..... is suggesting RQ take over jurisdiction of the track ... 

RQ is broke . . and getting 'broker' as that wonderful 'agreement' continues to weave its magic

Offline Stan Still

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« 2016-Jul-09, 12:06 PM Reply #58 »
The reason there is so much wastage is that greyhound racing authorities like Greyhounds Australia and GBOTA have never come out from under the rock they hibernated in for the past century. Since inception back in 1876, greyhound races in Grades so that there is no consideration to a dogs ability, the good dogs go through the grades while the slower dogs stay in the same grade and get beaten regularly by better dogs as they progress through the system. Unlike thoroughbreds where through the Rating system slow horses race against slow horses and faster horses run against their own ilk. There is nothing like this for greyhounds if there was the slower dogs with a low rating would still be competitive because they would be racing against similar ability dogs. This would mean that when a dog reaches its peak even if it is on a low level of ability because it has a low rating it races against dogs of same ability. This would mean slow dogs could compete until they are 4-5 years of age. Greyhounds Australia have had since the Four Corners expose to do something about the two things highlighted, that was live baiting and wastage. It has done something about live baiting and that is now past history but apart from restricting breeding permits done nothing to introduce rating based races.

Online Authorized

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« 2016-Jul-09, 12:15 PM Reply #59 »
The reason there is so much wastage is that greyhound racing authorities like Greyhounds Australia and GBOTA have never come out from under the rock they hibernated in for the past century. Since inception back in 1876, greyhound races in Grades so that there is no consideration to a dogs ability, the good dogs go through the grades while the slower dogs stay in the same grade and get beaten regularly by better dogs as they progress through the system. Unlike thoroughbreds where through the Rating system slow horses race against slow horses and faster horses run against their own ilk. There is nothing like this for greyhounds if there was the slower dogs with a low rating would still be competitive because they would be racing against similar ability dogs. This would mean that when a dog reaches its peak even if it is on a low level of ability because it has a low rating it races against dogs of same ability. This would mean slow dogs could compete until they are 4-5 years of age. Greyhounds Australia have had since the Four Corners expose to do something about the two things highlighted, that was live baiting and wastage. It has done something about live baiting and that is now past history but apart from restricting breeding permits done nothing to introduce rating based races.


  emthup


Offline Gintara

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« 2016-Jul-09, 05:59 PM Reply #60 »
not sure how it has been a stitch up.

Pretty obvious, seems the decision was made well before the commission reported back and regardless of what they said the agenda was fixed.

 :shutup:

Offline Sunliner

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« 2016-Jul-09, 06:43 PM Reply #61 »
Ok, I know this will fall on deaf ears, but here goes.

Reading some comments, well this could be a greyhound forum 2 years ago, same mindset.

When the problems started with Govt I passed on to many my experience as a Bookmaker during the time of the rationalization of my industry, what the Politicians were willing to do, what they actually thought of not just Bookmakers, but racing folk as well. I sat on a Bookmakers board with men who had funded the election of the Wran Govt, they were wealthy, they had influence, it mattered not. Look through that stakeholders video, and watch and listen to V'landys, watch Messara, those reactions are honest, be scared.

Racing people think they are better than the other 2 codes. Now as a bookmaker i can assure you what bookmakers thought of the people in all codes was closer to what politicians thought than you can imagine. If anyone in gallops harbours the illusion that they or the the size of racing is important, reality is not your friend. The welfare lobby and the anti-gambling lobby are the same, killing off racing, kills off gambling, and we have far right christian politicians in power, the suffering from the loss of your job or lifestyle, is righteous justice for your sin. Remember a professional bookmaker, the son of a bookmaker just posted that. My acceptance of what they are willing to do is harder than yours can possibly be.

Greyhound racing has for 20 years been run by people from gallops and harness, along with the odd political clod, or passionate( welfare champion) greyhound person, still its management of the registration and outcomes for the animal is light years ahead of the other 2 codes. If gallops or harness had been made to spend the same percentage of income that greyhounds has spent on integrity, welfare and rehoming, on top of the money spent on the unofficial rehoming programs, there would be a very different commentary about what has just happened.

Now here comes the knife, greyhound racing knows everything about the outcomes for both gallops and harness, it doesnt have the money to feed 100% beef, and for a sport that needs 25000kg of meat per day, rest assured greyhounds knows everything there is to know about meat and its supply.  It also knows about almost everything else that politicians and the public find disturbing, from drugs to rorts.

As greyhounds goes down, it will first clutch at straws, then it will do what all dying bodies do, whatever comes to mind, rational thought will be lost.

For all those who said when bookmakers were culled, they're only bookies, and now say they're only dog people, just remember, racing and harness are held in the exact same regard.

You either stand up and defend greyhounds, or your future is theirs!

BTW, the true economic value of those centrally based city racecourses,  and the ongoing economic value that can be generated from that land is far in excess of anything gallops can generate.


Offline Gintara

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« 2016-Jul-09, 07:10 PM Reply #62 »
Unlike thoroughbreds where through the Rating system slow horses race against slow horses and faster horses run against their own ilk. There is nothing like this for greyhounds if there was the slower dogs with a low rating would still be competitive because they would be racing against similar ability dogs. This would mean that when a dog reaches its peak even if it is on a low level of ability because it has a low rating it races against dogs of same ability. This would mean slow dogs could compete until they are 4-5 years of age. Greyhounds Australia have had since the Four Corners expose to do something about the two things highlighted, that was live baiting and wastage. It has done something about live baiting and that is now past history but apart from restricting breeding permits done nothing to introduce rating based races.

Stan, some of this has been implemented in NSW

Taken from the calendar -

Unibet Gardens C Racing
Date:16 Jul 2016
Timeslot: Twilight
Track:Unibet Gardens
Location:NSW
Nominations Close:
Tuesday 12 Jul 2016

Masters Stake 400m (Greyhounds will be drawn on a Masters Grade/Pointscore basis. Stake can contain M1/M2/M3 grades combined. Up to 2 Masters events will be run based on flow of nominations)
Prize money: $635 / $195 / $140


5th Grade Stake 600m (1-3 wins)
Prize money: $850 / $270 / $190

4/5th Grade Stake 400m
Prize money: $650 / $210 / $150

Pathways 5th Grade Stake 400m (Open to all 5th Grade nominations over the advertised distance. Greyhounds determined by bottom-up grading, based on point score.))
Prize money: $635 / $195 / $140

Offline Gintara

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« 2016-Jul-09, 07:20 PM Reply #63 »
Some interesting words from Ray Hadley

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/ray-hadley-bairds-greyhound-racing-ban-a-careless-swipe/news-story/83cd874a3a53dc2f9bc31e016133805f

Ray Hadley: Baird’s greyhound racing ban a careless swipe

I declare an interest. Thirty-six years ago my broadcasting career started at Appin greyhound track out past Campbelltown, as a race caller. In time I progressed to Nowra, Bulli and eventually to Harold Park and Wentworth Park. So I have a deep affection for the greyhound industry and most of the people in it.

The decision taken by NSW Premier Mike Baird this week has rocked the industry to its very core.

Many are saying that after the revelations up to 70,000 fit and healthy greyhounds were put down over a 12-year period, something had to be done. But did it have to be this drastic?

It smacks of a decision made by people with no real understanding of the gambling sports, including racing and harness racing. Not every racehorse that can’t gallop ends up at the local pony club or being used for dressage. Harness racing horses that can’t trot or pace fast enough don’t end up pulling milk carts.

That doesn’t mean every effort should not be made to find homes for greyhounds that are not racing propositions but I wonder if the Premier knows how many domestic pets that are abandoned every year are put down by various animal welfare agencies that can’t find them homes.

Last year, the RSPCA had to ­euthanase 12,500 dogs and cats for various reasons, which means that in the same 12-year period more than 100,000 dogs and cats were put down legally by the RSPCA.

Until this week, there were about 33 greyhound tracks across NSW; about half are non-TAB tracks that race every week. Places such as Kempsey, Mudgee, Wau­chope, Broken Hill and Taree; not tracks where you’ll find big trainers, just men and women who love their dogs and have some fun for a small amount of prizemoney.

But all those clubs, including TAB tracks such as Dapto, Nowra, Casino, Grafton, Lismore, ­Maitland, Gosford, Dubbo, Richmond and Bathurst, along with non-TAB tracks, employ local people — behind the bar, at the starting boxes, in the race-day ­office, selling food or calling the dogs, just like I did at Appin in 1980, for $36.50 for 15 races.

What does Baird say to those communities?

We have a major drug problem in NSW with ice and the like. What is the Premier doing to stop a scourge that tears lives apart?

Is he legislating for tough mandatory penalties for the dealers? Of course not.

What’s he doing about child sex offenders who get a slap on the wrist from some judges for ruining little children’s lives?

No life bans there, like he’s given the greyhound industry. Baird waited until after the federal election to announce the ban, for a simple reason. He knew there’d be a backlash that would have some ­effect in rural communities.

It could have cost the Coalition votes, and in present circumstances they are much-needed votes.

I’ll give you a tip — this will ­affect many more people than Baird thinks.

He could have given the industry one more chance to get rid of the low-lifes who ruined it for everyone, but it was an easy target. Not many from the big end of town get to Richmond dogs on a Friday night.

Ray Hadley is a radio broadcaster for 2GB

Offline chuggers

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« 2016-Jul-09, 07:29 PM Reply #64 »
Thanks gin....I agree totally with Hadley ....high court action is  the issue.....the gov..cannot wipe  out an industry...

 -())=(

Offline Sunliner

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« 2016-Jul-09, 08:15 PM Reply #65 »

Offline MagiC~*

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« 2016-Jul-09, 08:16 PM Reply #66 »
Last year, the RSPCA had to ­euthanase 12,500 dogs and cats for various reasons, which means that in the same 12-year period more than 100,000 dogs and cats were put down legally by the RSPCA.

Thise numbrers are understated Gin,

The 4 years before last, nearly 20,000 domestic dogs were destroyed every year.

Times that number by 12 and it is a sight more than 100,000 dogs, let alone cats.

Greyhound racing isn't the issue, the issue is human nature and unless these fuddy duddies decide to cull the human race, the we need to stop being so precious.

the live baiting and cruelty is the issue, destroying the animals is not.  :stop:


Offline Sunliner

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Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2016-Jul-09, 08:29 PM Reply #68 »

Offline arthur

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« 2016-Jul-09, 09:29 PM Reply #69 »
Of course he is . .

Everybody does . . but initiators of knee-jerk reactions usually have little idea of the wider ramifications

Knock a whole industry out of a functioning system and wait for the consequences . . expected and otherwise

Offline Gintara

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« 2016-Jul-09, 10:23 PM Reply #70 »
That bloke would not be talking through his own pocket by any chance ?

I buy my meat there every week.

I'll take a photo next time of the horses in the paddocks ........

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2016-Jul-09, 11:56 PM Reply #71 »
From the McHugh report:

1.97 Changes that will be brought about in restructuring the greyhound industry – particularly
GRNSW’s plan to reduce the number of greyhound tracks from 34 to a maximum of 14 – would
affect the economies of many towns in NSW.


So a criticism of the efforts of GRNSW was that by reducing the number of tracks would affect many rural economies.

But the outcome now is that they will be reducing the number of greyhound tracks from 34 down to 0.

So what will that do to rural economies Mr McHugh and Mr Baird?

Yet another example of a decision made by city based politicians/barristers living on the North Shore and the Eastern Suburbs that will be ruinous on the lives of many, many people who work in the industry outside of Sydney. Having lived in rural NSW for some time (and partially living there now), this lack of consideration - let's call it an arrogant lack of consideration - for people who live outside of Sydney is really palpable.

It has been quite clear for many decades that decisions like this have leaked wealth from the country, and when you look at the affluent lifestyles of those making the decisions, not to mention their rising property values, you can only draw conclusions on where this wealth has gone.

1.115 The Commission accepts that many participants in the industry are animal lovers who care for
their greyhounds. But especially for those whose interest in greyhounds is betting on their
chance of winning races, the greyhound is simply a gambling instrument, no different from a
card in a poker game or a handle on a poker machine.


So the person charged with providing advice to the NSW Government honestly doesn't know the difference between wagering on a dog race, playing poker or playing a poker machine  :what:

I thought he used to be in the Legal Eagles betting syndicate?

You could say it is an uninformed observation, but I'm going to say he does know the difference, and this observation in his report is an intentional absurdity designed to denigrate those who train and handle dogs.

Read it a couple of times and you quickly realize that this paragraph has been inserted to say something along the lines "we know that most people whom handle/train dogs are not cruel people but we must find a way to denigrate them so let's make some outrageous and non-sensical generalization about betting and associate these good people with that generalization."

43 Greyhound Racing NSW or any new regulator should take steps to regulate the extent to which
‘muscle men’ can be involved in the treatment of greyhounds, if at all. It should be an offence
under the Rules of Racing for a registered participant to engage a ‘muscle man’ for treating a
greyhound contrary to the Rules.


I honestly don't know what a muscle man is in this context  :shy:

Can someone please tell me?

Offline mortdale

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« 2016-Jul-10, 12:25 AM Reply #72 »
Hi Shogun Lodge. You are 100% spot on regarding both horse codes.

Ascot and others need to catch up to this century and stop burying their heads in the sand and believing the racing ban protester's will stop at the Greyhound code.

I will repeat just one instance to ponder on. A prominent Harness Horse owner has had over 500 horses in the last 15 years. With an average full life expectancy of a horse being 25 years, I ask how many of the 500 horses are still alive today. The answer is less than 70.

The same animal lobby group are looking at both horse codes and we have a very large storm front approaching.

In regards to Ascot's comment that both horse codes don't have the same tarnished image as they don't engage in live baiting all I can say is "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

Where would you want me to start Ascot?

One of my best friends is a retired jockey that rode over 600 winners in both New Zealand and Australia and he has opened my eyes to so many things in the Thoroughbred industry that would have most of us running for cover.

There is enough negative actions well known in both horse codes for the animal lobby groups to have a field day and make headlines nationally.

It's time for both horse codes to get on the front foot and look at one problem that the non-racing public are sick and tired of and that is the use of whips.

Act now before "the attack" begins.

Just on a side note. I'm sure most of us are sick and tired of Ascot and DD's ongoing vendetta against Just Racing. Let it go fellows, as there are so many more urgent areas of attention needed in the near future that we all need to focus on.

Offline mortdale

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« 2016-Jul-10, 12:52 AM Reply #73 »
Hi, PoisonPen7. 43 Greyhound Racing NSW or any new regulator should take steps to regulate the extent to which
‘muscle men’ can be involved in the treatment of greyhounds, if at all. It should be an offence
under the Rules of Racing for a registered participant to engage a ‘muscle man’ for treating a
greyhound contrary to the Rules.

I honestly don't know what a muscle man is in this context  :shy:

Can someone please tell me?


The term 'Muscle Man' is a person who checks a Greyhound over for soreness and issues that might be affecting a Greyhounds performance.

In most cases a 'Muscle Man' has had years of experience in understanding the muscle and skeletal frame of a Greyhound.

Just like all walks of life some are excellent and some are 100% fakes.

One 'Muscle Man' that was recognized by most Greyhound Vets in Victoria was George Schofield.

I have seen Greyhounds that Vets couldn't help and most likely would have been put down visit George Schofield hardly able to walk that would go on and win 10 days latter. No drugs, just manipulation.

There have been issues with so called "Muscle Men" using drugs and injections without any formal training.

I agree that 'Muscle Men' should be registered and pass a certain level of qualification before being able to set up as a 'Muscle Man'.

Offline mortdale

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« 2016-Jul-10, 01:27 AM Reply #74 »
That is what I was getting at, the people doing the wrong thing have bought this on themselves and the industry.
If there was no commission then we wouldn't be at this point, not sure how it has been a stitch up.


Hi Chalky, Like any blow up in any Industry words and sentences like, 'the people doing the wrong thing have bought this on themselves and the industry' can be misleading.

I agree that the Four Corners report was the start of the downfall but I ask how much of that was a stitch up.

Racing Queensland loses an email that would have alloyed for a meeting with the RSPCA who stated that they were prepared to work with Racing Queensland to clean up the Greyhound Industry but never received a reply.

In today's modern world how do you lose an email. I smell a rat don't you?

I agree that the Greyhound Industry had to clean it's act up but it was a smaller percentage than what Mike Baird blurted out. It's not 20% plus doing the wrong thing, it would be lucky to be 10%.

There have been moves by prominent Thoroughbred Industry representatives for years to get rid of the Greyhound Industry.

Sure there has been a Animal Lobby Group pushing for the closure as well but there are many of us that smell a total stitch up.

And Chalky, don't for one minute think that there hasn't been and most likely still is a small percentage in both Horse Codes doing the wrong thing.


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