Harness Racing vs Thoroughbred Racing - Harness - Racehorse TALK
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Harness Racing vs Thoroughbred Racing - Harness - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Harness Racing vs Thoroughbred Racing  (Read 4814 times)

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Offline mortdale

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O.P. « 2017-Jan-19, 11:54 AM »
Having some spare time on my hands over the holiday season I was watching some racing on SKY.

A Harness race caught my eye at Redcliffe last week so I thought I would send an email to the Stewards at RQ.

The email is shown below. I have removed names etc as I don't want to suggest that anyone did anything wrong, all I would have appreciated is a response from the RQ Stewards.

To whom it may concern.

RACE 7 GRAND PRIX MAZDA ASPLEY & CABOOLTURE PACE (R1 R2) 1780m MS

PLACINGS: GOTHAM CITY SIN, ITS ALL GO, TORQUE FACTOR, AMBER STRIKE

SECTIONALS:  Mile Rate:  2.01.3   Lead Time:  11.6 First Quarter:  29.6 Second Quarter: 30.9   Third Quarter:  30.7 Fourth Quarter:  31.4

A pre-race blood sample was taken from CORALIE JOY.

CORALIE JOY (B Cockburn) commenced a three wide move at the 1300m point to take up the lead passing the 1100m point.
TORQUE FACTOR (M Elkins) commenced a three wide move at the 1100m but was unable to find a forward position and as a result was restrained to the rear of the field.
LITTLE LIZZIE JOVE (R Gorman) broke free of interference passing the 1400m point and has been placed on its last chance to race truly.
AMBER STRIKE (M Kendall) was held up for a clear run to the finish and was not fully tested.

As per my email last night (Thursday 12-01-17) I ask if Harness Racing has the same rule as the Thoroughbred code in relation to the driver taking all opportunity to drive their horse out to the line to obtain the best finishing position possible.

From the above Stewards Report it appears that its okay in Harness Racing not to drive your horse out to the finish as there was no mention of a stand out "soft drive".

(Name) finished (Placing) after being shunted back on the pegs but obtained a sprint lane run on the home turn and if (Driver) had even "burped" in the sulky the horse would have finished at least 3rd. The last quarter of 31.4 was one the slowest last quarters all day so there was no excuse not to drive the horse out to the finish.

I'm not talking through my wallet because I refuse to bet on QLD Trots because the above is just one of many reasons.

However when a horse starts favourite many punters have that horse in trifecta's and pick 4's etc.


I must question with all the "buzz" around "Integrity" are the Stewards really watching with both eyes open?

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2017-Jan-19, 06:05 PM Reply #1 »
Can you post a link to the race, mort.?

Offline mortdale

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Offline wily ole dog

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« 2017-Jan-19, 06:33 PM Reply #3 »
I certainly see what you saw mate but looking at the previous 3 runs and the subsequent, he atleast seems to be ridden in the same passive manor. Even when he won :chin:

Offline HarmersHaven

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« 2017-Jan-19, 06:58 PM Reply #4 »
They're crooked up there.

I can 110% guarantee, hand on heart, swear on my child's life, walk into police station and sign a stat dec saying that the result of a group (or listed? I'm unsure how harness do their grading) race last year was known prior to the race. Not so much the end result (it still panned out the way it was suggested it was going to), but the favourite was never going to win.

Offline mortdale

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« 2017-Jan-19, 08:44 PM Reply #5 »
I certainly see what you saw mate but looking at the previous 3 runs and the subsequent, he at least seems to be ridden in the same passive manor. Even when he won :chin:

You are spot on about the horses ability Wily but in the grade of race it was in, it could have finished at least 3rd for exotic punters.

I was only requesting an explanation of the rules but obviously one can't question the "Gods" at RQ.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Jan-20, 04:22 AM Reply #6 »
They're crooked up there.

I can 110% guarantee, hand on heart, swear on my child's life, walk into police station and sign a stat dec saying that the result of a group (or listed? I'm unsure how harness do their grading) race last year was known prior to the race. Not so much the end result (it still panned out the way it was suggested it was going to), but the favourite was never going to win.

Sadly Qld harness racing seems to have been abandoned by the government. The prizemoney on offer at Albion Park Friday is less than the two NSW provincial meets at Bathurst and Newcastle and the Globe Derby meeting. There once was a time when Qld pacing was some of the best in the country. Had some fantastic nights out at Albion Park on a Saturday after the races back in the 80's.

They were supposed to be restarting pacing at the Gold Coast but that appears to have fallen off the back of a truck.

Most Redcliffe races are worth less than $3k so the profits that can be gained by having a bet at the TAB by unscrupulous people will exceed the $1,500 that the winner gets. The scene is ripe for that sort of thing.

No easy answers if the entire racing game in Qld is politicized and all the minister seems to want to do is employ mates on big salaries and appear at the social event that is the Magic Millions raving on about how great things are in Qld racing. The irony of that is that the Magic Millions is funded, in the main, by NSW breeders.

Offline Thebigdog

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« 2017-Jan-23, 04:22 PM Reply #7 »
Mort, I have reviewed the race in question and feel the horse would not have finished any closer as it actually lost ground on the horse it followed into the straight, it was beaten a head when the horse in question was beaten 7.1mts.
Yes I agree he was very quite on it but it does have a very poor record of breaking gait and causing interference, on 2 times in my memory this horse has caused falls in races with its poor manners so in my opinion hes just trying to get this horse across the line without breaking, plus this is what everyone wants now, little to no whipping.

Its is very poor that QRIC stewards cant reply to you but your not alone, I have held my licence for almost 30 years and I get the same treatment.

PEN you are 100% correct that the government has abandoned us, considering the turnover on harness racing has gone up 50% in the last 5 years you would think it would be worth cleaning up. The latest on the new gold coast track is we will hear more in march.

Offline mortdale

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« 2017-Jan-26, 10:00 AM Reply #8 »
Thanks Big Dog.

You no doubt have a lot more knowledge about Harness Racing than I have seeing you have held a license for 30 years.

It is that I keep seeing "soft drives" that only lead to doubts about what are the stewards actually watching.

I'm all for not seeing horses flogged with the whip but they can be driven out with the reins over the last 150mts.

In regards to the Government abandoning Harness Racing you are 100% right.

In my opinion Harness Racing in QLD only gets lip service from the Government due to one major owner, breeder and sponsor who is also a major business developer and sits on several boards.

If this gentleman and his wife leave the Harness Racing industry it will be the last ones out needs to turn the lights off.

The QLD Government only has eyes for the Thoroughbred Industry as many of that codes participants are major political donors.

This is not just in QLD as NSW is also very much Thoroughbred focused.

Has the QLD Government ever come clean on where the promised money from the closure of the Gold Coast track has gone because it certainly hasn't been spent on the promised new track?

As I have said before, is it Grace Grace or Disgrace Disgrace?


Offline Thebigdog

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« 2017-Feb-20, 05:23 PM Reply #9 »
Mort, sorry for the slow reply been having computer problems. 100% correct on disgrace she is useless like most ministers. you are also right about soft drives and what the stewards are watching, we couldn't have a worse lot of stewards at the moment.
The majority of the industry think differently of the major owner you speak of, if he left our industry it might have a chance, he controls everything from the board appointments to the race programing. 90% of people didn't want the Band racing system that we now use but it was his idea so it went ahead and it has depleted the racing population. He doesn't want the industry to increase because then he wont be able to control it.

There was never any money promised for the Gold Coast track but it was to be replaced, now there is a fight over who will control it whenever it finally gets built. It does surprise me that zero dollars have been spent on harness racing and prizemoney has gone down but turnover has risen 50% in the last 5 years yet we still are losing money somehow.

Offline Thebigdog

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« 2017-Mar-14, 09:10 PM Reply #10 »
Just to let you know Mort, somebody felt the same as you and lodged a complaint about this drive and this week the driver was suspended for 6 weeks.

You were correct the stewards didn't see anything and did nothing about it but the QRIC formed independent panel did and found this driver guilty, this is the 2nd time its happened now so why are stewards not being asked what are they looking at.

Offline mortdale

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« 2017-Mar-14, 10:04 PM Reply #11 »
Thanks "Thebigdog".

The bigger problem is that I have witnessed several outstanding pull jobs over the last 6 weeks and if I may be so bold to say "Team Driving" at it's best.

There is no mention in any of the Steward reports.

Take close notice next time there is a large dollar carry over into a set race for a Trifecta or Pick 4 jackpot.

It's hotter than a Canberra politicians expense account.

I will now only bet on Harness Racing when there are major races with $50,000 plus prizemoney. At least they seem to be "straight" with everyone trying.

Have a great week.

Offline Thebigdog

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« 2017-Mar-14, 10:14 PM Reply #12 »
Cant disagree with you there Mort, there are some bad ones and even with me pointing it out to them they still cant see it.

I don't get much time to follow the pools as I'm too busy, but I was happy to see a couple of obvious one go astray today.

Happy punting
DOG

Offline mortdale

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« 2017-Mar-19, 02:28 PM Reply #13 »
Hi Thebigdog, for a good Sunday afternoon laugh have a look at the replay of race 1 from Albion Park last night.

$100,000 trifecta jackpot.

For some reason the second horse on the inside and the third horse outside in the death seat were happy to control the pace some 6 metres to 10 metres back from the leader.

I haven't seen that in a harness race for years.

Funny it was a $100,000 trifecta jackpot race.

Sure the leader ran a fast 3rd sectional but the 1st quarter was 30.7 and the second horse from the pole had no intention to move up directly behind the leader what I found to be quite odd.

First Quarter: 30.7  Second Quarter: 29.1 Third Quarter: 27.7 Fourth Quarter: 28.5  Overall Mile Rate: 1:54:8.

The winner won by 6.6 metres and the mile rate was 1.54.8.

The second horse won it's previous start in a mile rate of 1.54.8 the same as the winner ran last night but couldn't get closer than 6.6 metres to the winner after having a cosy cart up behind the pace.

All looks okay to me....................LOL.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: 2017-Mar-19, 02:30 PM by mortdale »

Offline Thebigdog

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« 2017-Mar-23, 07:00 PM Reply #14 »
Yes Mort, I watched it live and thought to myself its another one of these jackpot trifecta races where things just don't look right.

The lead time was fast, the fastest of the night to be exact but the first half wasn't so the trailing horse was entitled to fill the gap left by the leader. it is very strange the 2 stables in question wouldn't be working together IMO  but something certainly wasn't right about it.

The leader was always going to be in front as it has very fast gait speed, and the mile rates you refer to don't take into account distances, the second horse has won at this distance but his best time is 1.56.4, his faster times are at the shorter mile distance.

Still it looked very suspect to me as some of the Saturday night jackpot trifecta races do.

Hope this helps lol

Offline HarmersHaven

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« 2017-Apr-07, 01:30 PM Reply #15 »
Things starting to surface in QLD.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Apr-07, 02:04 PM Reply #16 »
7 APR 2017 - 11:26AM

More harness racing arrests likely in Qld

Queensland investigators probing systemic match fixing in the harness racing industry say more arrests are expected after a 46-year-old man was charged.

Queensland police have charged one man and flagged further arrests amid a crackdown on systemic match fixing in the state's harness racing industry.

A 46-year-old licensed harness driver and trainer from Warwick has been charged with one count of match fixing over his alleged involvement in a "loose cartel" operating in the industry.

His licence has been suspended as a result of the allegation.

Queensland Racing Integrity Commissioner Ross Barnett says the cartel of drivers and trainers were involved in systemic match fixing and changed their tactics from race to race.

"It's not every race, it's not every race meeting - but it's not a rare event," Mr Barnett said at a press conference on Friday.

He said more arrests were imminent.

"There will be, in the coming days, more arrests," he said.

Mr Barnett said investigators had received information from people within the industry who held concerns "for some time" about improper behaviour.

But he said there was no evidence as yet that traditional organised crime groups were involved.

Investigators this week searched properties of five harness racing participants at Limestone Ridges, Warwick, The Gap, Logan Village and Redcliffe.

Detectives seized mobile phones, computers, documents and clothing.

The items will now be forensically examined.

The crime racing squad was set up in 2016 to investigate serious animal cruelty, match fixing and major and organised crime across all three codes of racing.

The offence of engaging in match-fixing conduct was recently added to the state's criminal code and carries a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment.


http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/04/07/more-harness-racing-arrests-likely-qld

Source: AAP

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Apr-07, 02:07 PM Reply #17 »
Probably important enough to warrant it's own thread.

Have started a new thread.


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