Racehorse TALK

This will probably be a watch race for mine.  They are predicting a good track for the first time in ages, and you've got horses like Squamosa who's only ever had 3 starts on Heavy, Heavy, Slow. 

Who's to say that he's not going to blitz them on top of the ground?

I'm tempted to dutch Toorak Toff and Crystal Lily, but I think I'll just look on...

Your memory must be getting hazy Jim, you forget Denman last year?

Quality post.

I didn't forget denman, he probably peaked here and was run over in the Caulfield Guineas, then the same in the Australian guineas, won the lead ups and was run over in the major by Rock Classic/Set for Fame and Linton, he may have been a little over rated in my opinion!

Before the spring started, I had a theory that the Sires/Champagne form was better than the Slipper/Diamond form.  Nothing I have seen so far makes me think I was wrong.

The other thing I forgot to mention re Denman, he probably was set for the Golden Rose, when I said they weren't specifically set for this race I meant the real Group One Horses, horses like Denman wasn't a genuine Group One horse or they made a huge mistake in peaking him for this race and leaving nothing for the Caulfield guineas, can't remember his full race record but the 2 that stick out for me were the Caulfield guineas and the Australian guineas where he made a great market for the one I backed Rock classic ($40) Denman was the unplaced fav in both and hot fav too!

I would be very surprised if Toorak Toff, Masquerader and Crystal Lily were at their peak, they are going to be close 85/90% and rely on their class for the rest, their primary targets are a long way away, for this reason they may be a little vulnerable at the price they are going to be all around the $5/6 obviously if you think either of them are absolutely outstanding then they can win,  class does take you a long way, not a betting race for mine, I am looking at small investment on a couple of roughies, Decision Time wasn't far behind Crystal lilly in the Slipper is having his 3rd run from a spell and he is 5 or 6 times the price, Nash Rawiller thought he was a Genuine group One horse as a 2 year old, then Sasa does have a 5 length win over Parable to her credit, has been Group one placed and is $41  you don't need a big bet to win a bit, I think they are both over the Odds, they are TAB fixed odds, Betfair I expect even better!

I agree Sasa is probably overs

I think Crystal Lily should be top pick back on top of the ground ... especially given how good her Sydney form was in the autumn

It was common knowledge Jim that he was set for this.

Is that like being a little pregnant 

What is your point Gin?  do you agree with me that he wasn't a genuine Group One horse??
Gee it was 12 months ago and he was a second tier horse I neither remember or care what was common knowlege 12 months ago, if you knew it then I agree the knowlege must have been common!

The point being the use of the word 'genuine'. It's just ridiculous, nothing wrong if you don't like them but the fact still stands the horse did win a million dollar group 1 along with 9 from 12

His only failures where when he stepped to a mile remember

As I said this shouldn't be a Group One just because it is a Million$ race, it is badly placed to be called a Group one, The group One status has been bought, not earned!
He beat a lot of horses that were not at their peak here in this race, anyway Trusting has done nothing since either, Raihana had been placed in a $2mil race and ran like a crippled crab, so you have to doubt the merit of the form there too(which I did if you read that thread) just because it was worth $2mil didn't automatically make the Form good,
Velocitea won a group One too, is she a "Genuine" Group One horse too?? according to your Rules she is the equal of a Cox plate winner!!
You can blame the Mile for Denmans failure, I blame the horse, he just wasn't good enough, if he had been going to win at the Furlong you may have a point but he was never going to even go close at any stage of the 2 "Genuine" Group Ones!!

I do believe that Denman was a genuine group 1 horse, but unfortunately he never proved it.

Obviously you can only go on performance on the track other than that it is a matter of opinion, he did fail at his 2 tries, he was never going to be in the finish even if the race had been 12/1400 metres, I may be a hard marker but that doesn't tell me that he was up to it, you may forgive him once, but twice?  he was a very Good horse and I was mainly talking about this race more than Denman, I was using him as an example, Gintara turned it to the main topic,
I just do not think that prizemoney alone should dictate whether a race is a group One, nor do I believe that every state deserves to have races that carry Group One Status, I don't care how many races you call Group Two or Group 3 but a Group One status should only be given to races that are the main Targets of the Best horses available over the Distance, the requirements for a Group One should be very strict and I just feel that a race this early in the Spring (hell it aint even Spring yet) should never be called Group One!!  Just because good horses win it is irrelevant,  Good horses win Barrier trials, does that mean barrier trials should be given Group One Status?? You should have to be right at your peak to win a Group One and just looking at the field does anyone really think these horses are at their absolute peak??

I know what you're saying there and agree

Especially when Group 1 races are restricted to certain horses, not nominated for Golden Slipper, you don't get in Golden Rose, which is how that race came about

Group 1 races should be open to all qualifying, other horses come through the ranks the hard way and earn there group 1 status, others are handed it on a platter