Racehorse TALK

Yes I iam agreeing with your analysis of the form, just saying that it is even more accentuated in the spring than it is in the Slipper

What position is this being measured from - I would have to watch the race again but wasn't Shoot Out ahead of Whobe and TT in running? 

Understood JP 

Maybe I wasn't clear Calgary - just saying that if a horse is holding it's ground in the run home when they're sprinting home it can be quite good performance - esp if they're horses looking for further and races with genuine tempo.

Momentum, whilst the other two had their momentum up full steam, Shoot Out was looking for clear running.

Maybe - I will need to see him again before any of mine goes back on though.

Time: 1:38.30. Sectional Time: 0:37.44 at 600m.
Time: 1:39.67. Sectional Time: 0:35.51 at 600m
1st race was the G2 raced after the Dato, won by Avenius.
So my friends, lets talk about what happened again at MV..another big race where they bloody well walked the first 1000m.(1.04.16)
Whobe came home excellently, probably ran say 34.5 but went very wide, so lots of merit. Sprinted well.
Shoot Out has lost his turn of foot and as he was virtually on the pace and had NOT had any sort of a hard run. Hence disappointing.
TT showed us she can come on from the back, but will just place place place agin the big boy.(s)
Sectionals never lies guys 

Whobe went wide on a cambered track where the ground was better and winners were coming from 

Was always a fair bet they'd go slow as the only leader said we don't want to lead 

And I'm guessing trainer of TT took that decision because of how the track was playing no other reason 

What do you mean by "Sectionals never lie" pf course they don't, how can they?? they are what they are!! Of course how you read them like statistics are open to interpretation, the sectionals in a slow run mile compared with a fast run 2000m,  What do they mean?? first only twice has WBGY been asked to stay, the Derby against 3 year olds and last years Cox Plate, he has left his supporters with a hanful of cardboard both times as Fav, so how do you read the "sectionals"  that grade of horse running around 34.5 is hardly outstanding, I am not knocking him but your statement "Sectionals never lie" you make it sound the be all, end all of making a decision, what relevance do you attach to it?
I find saying what good horses can and can't do is a way of making a fool of yourself, I don't think any of them have that much on their rivals, a little luck for one and/or a little bad luck for another and the results can change dramatically

Agree makes Whobe's win even more impressive, but I'll forgive Shoot Out myself. That close the the inside really was that much of a disadvantage not that I'm saying if he'd tracked Whobe he'd have been able to go with him.

Anyway this race confirmed my belief that Precedence is a 2000-2400m horse. I know he's a Zabeel trained by Bart and what have you but I'm pretty sure he wont get 2 miles (off the Sydney prep we saw and what he is showing over shorter trips) and I'm convinced around 2000 will be his best trip so hard to see him going a strong 2 miles even based on that - only very good horses can do that.

some horses particularly staying bred horses Mature very slowly, look at More Joyous(I know she isn't a stayer but a perfect example of waiting for a horse to mature, she was beaten in the Golden Slipper because of lack of maturity to handle the hard racing, not on ability)
 I have never seen Precedence in the flesh but he strikes me as one of them that has neen slow to mature, he was beaten in the lead up to the Sydney Cup, I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he trained off before he got there in the Sydney Cup, he is 6 months Older now and the experience would have done him more good than harm, don't write him off, I can see him being another Rogan Josh and taking the McKinnon on the way to the Cup!

Jim the reason I said this is that many in the past have kicked my head in over sectionals and the obvious importance of them here. I've been around here for many years Jim, not every comment is directed at you or your opinion. Simply thought as usual many discuss these races without reference to what actually happened.!st ya watch the race , then ya check the times, then ya check the other races on the day, then ya mull it over
I defer to your many years of experience, but I've loved many a horse, and made money from em, due to their sectional times and ability.
They aren't always the punters friend, as my namesake suggests, I know how to get robbed in a G1 due to no pace.etc etc
I just like the forum to be aware in post mortum mode of the times actually run.
Still the video clearly shows SO could only just keep up with Precedence for the last 600....who woulda thought that is satis result three weeks ago. Your assertion that he's on a stayers prep is OK but is Precendence nearly as good?
Approaching the bend SO had every every chance to get goin, make his own run, and he couldn't.
Jockey nappin? Jockey suss?(the rumours fly as usual round the traps about soft efforts from Stathi )
Don't know what to make of him.
By the way, I'm sure I was the first here to mention Precedence last year...was told, quite rightly, not yet Shogun....I like him too!

PS I was comparing two races over 1600......
1 .3 secs diff equals 9 lengths slower overall from the better grade horses...
farcical....Hissing Sid leading comfortably.....

I am not knocking the importance of sectional times, just the throw away line "Sectionals Don't lie" just sometimes you have to be careful how you read them,  in 2007 the last 600 of the Cox Plate confirmed my belief(to me anyway) that Efficient had a mortgage on the Melbourne Cup!!