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Racehorse TALK

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Author Topic: Smoken Up...How Good Is He??  (Read 4049 times)
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lookslikedenzel
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Original Post 2010-Nov-29, 08:27 AM

Smoken Up's win the other night got me thinking where does he sit with some past greats?

An amazing stat his owner produced the other night is he had ran 2nd in 8 Group 1's and in total been

beaten 5 meters. He has happened to bump into Black's a fake who Hutchy I think it was on Sat night that

he was the best pacer of all time but I completely disagree as there will never be one as good as Popular Alm

but thats a different topic.

Here are some stats and you guys can judge in order of just a few horses who I rate about Smoken Up's mark.

Smoken Up - $1.4 Mill - 1.50.9

82 Starts 40 Wins 31 Placings - Has run against one of the all time best in Blackie and ran placings in 2 Inters finals, 2 Victoria cups, Won a MM
ran placing in another MM and 2 placings in Auckland Cups. Always doing most of the bullocking and being sitting duck.

Sokyola - $1.9 Mill - 1.54.6

161 Starts 78 wins 42 placings - Love to lead in his races and one he had the throat surgury he become top class. Won 2 MM's and a placing in WA Inter.
Won countless Country Cups and Winter Cup. Did win most of his races from in front and did he win enough at top level???

Shakamaker - $2.2 Mill - 1.55.0

81 Starts 46 Wins 22 Placings - Simply brilliant when at his best with amazing finishing sprint. Won his hometown Inter in style and also a Vic Cup. Tas championship
2yo gold final & WA derby wins showed he was against best from day 1. Ran 2nd to Smooth Satin in another inter. Brad Pitt of harness racing and walked the walk.
Could unleash out wide and had plenty of gatespeed also. Wasn't much this bloke couldn't do.

The Falcon Strike - $1.2 Mill - 1.54.5

78 Starts 41 Wins 17 Placings - Wonder WA speed horse that no one in WA got close to. 2nd to Jofess in Inter in WA and won 3 WA pacing Cup and 3 Fremantle Cups.
Newcastle mile winner but was never the same horse once he crossed the border. Put up herculian runs in home state week after week.

Westburn Grant - $2.1 Mill - 1.55.6

67 Starts 38 Wins 18 Placings. One of the first real speed machines. Would get to the front and it was game over. 2 MM wins and Melb Inter that looked effortless. Won
Derbies and 2 Benson & Hedges (hehe) in Perth. Winter champs in QLD to Legends and Italian Cups. This guy won them all. Even beat the great Village Kid on his home turf.

Smooth Satin - $1.4 Mill - 1.55.4

122 Starts 46 Wins 48 Placings - What was this guy a sit sprinter or iron horse? He would win from anywhere. Won HP Inter which blew everyone away. 2nd in Hunter Cup and MM and twice in Truer. Won chariots and countless Cups also. With pace on and a soft run then very few could sprint with this guy. Did he win enough of the big ones though??

These are clearly not the best of all time but some of the greats about Smoken Up's mark. Has he fially done enough now to not be equal with these

horses but maybe have gone past them. Put your oder from 1 to 6 and will be interesting where he comes in.

Your Thoughts???




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Antitab#
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2010-Nov-29, 09:07 AM

Smoken Up is is an outstanding horse as are all on that list.  Westburn Grant  was a class above the rest of those, at his best those others wouldnt see which way he went.  He was up there with Christian Cullen as the most brilliant horse I have seen.
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Steward
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2010-Nov-29, 09:11 AM

When you look at the records of these incredible horses I wonder why our own Jim Pike does not like the sport of Harness Racing ?

Its everything he is crying out for.
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el zoro
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2010-Nov-29, 09:14 AM

Was quite sad to see Smoken Up beat the champ in the last hop. Blacks A Fake would have to be one of the best ever.
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MagiC~*
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2010-Nov-29, 09:25 AM

Yes was very sad to see Blackie go down by such a short margin.

I guess the question I would rather ask, not really being a harness guy, is how good is Blacks A Fake what

Has somebody got his record ?
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lookslikedenzel
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2010-Nov-29, 10:16 AM


Guys, There is already a Blacks a fake thread. As I stated above this isn't about him but about Smoken Up.

To clear up the quick questions BAF has won 66 of 92 and is 2nd best ever behind Popular Alm who would run sub 1.48

on a track like menangle at his peak and no horse will come close to Poppy EVER...Simple as that.

Now....Back to Smoken up !!!!!!
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bluebaggers
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2010-Nov-29, 10:26 AM

Denzil,

I agree with you mate.  Poppy was the greatest.  I loved him, how could anyone not.
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MagiC~*
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2010-Nov-29, 11:00 AM

Sorry Denzel  smiley

Outside of Blacks A Fake I don't know a lot about Harness Racing, but point taken  Thumb Up
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el zoro
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2010-Nov-29, 12:20 PM

2 wins from every 3 starts is Champion material.   
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Genghis
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2010-Nov-29, 04:57 PM

one tough hombre..........close to my all time favourite
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wily ole dog
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2010-Nov-29, 05:31 PM

Personally I'm with Denzel. Poppy # 1 and a clear #2 for me is Gammalite

From the list above I would probably rate Somey better than
Soky, Smoothie,The Falcon & Shaka but he isn't anywhere as good as Westbern Grant beer
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arakaan
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2010-Nov-29, 06:06 PM

Yep westburn is way better than others on the opening Post.

Westburn Grant - $2.1 Mill - 1.55.6  noteworthy

Daylight

Smoken Up - $1.4 Mill - 1.50.9

Smooth Satin - $1.4 Mill - 1.55.4

Shakamaker - $2.2 Mill - 1.55.0

Sokyola - $1.9 Mill - 1.54.6

daylight

The Falcon Strike - $1.2 Mill - 1.54.5 



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arakaan
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2010-Nov-29, 06:13 PM

BTW Poppy might be the best but I love to think of what the freakish Christian Cullan would do at his best around Menangle. love

I honestly think I'd back Christian at its best. unsure

If your a fan of harness racing watch the 8 part christian cullen story on youtube. 
« Last Edit: 2010-Nov-29, 06:23 PM by arakaan » Logged
lookslikedenzel
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2010-Nov-29, 06:50 PM

Ara.....I liked your order but am not sure if smoken up is daylight behind Westburn Grant anymore.

At some stage I will go through and match them up.

ok ok ok...you got me on the other one.

Popular Alm - 1.53.2 TT (won't worry about $$$ as irrelevant )

62 Starts 49 Wins 10 Placings - Ran 1.53.2 when most couldn't break 2.00.00 Absolute Freak including winning after coming back after a broken leg ....Ran against probably a stayer equal to Blackie and probably number 3 ever week in week out in the great Gammalite....

Christian Cullen - 1.54.1

31 Starts - 22 Wins 4 Placings - The wonder from down down under. High speed freak that made a MM field look like C1's. Auckland Reactor went 1.53 at same track CC went 1.54.1. The calibre of Our sir vancealot and Talamaide Lombo chsing him in MM doesn't stand up for me and to run 3rd to Breeny's fella and Shakamaker in Victoria cup surely put him not up with Poppy even over a mile.

Ara I know you were judging only over a mile and at menangle but can you only imagine what poppy would run there with a lance supercart on if he could go 1.53 at Moonee Valley. I would be happy to take your bet  Thumb Up   Thumb Up   Thumb Up
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Beautone
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2010-Nov-29, 06:51 PM

Can't agree westburn grant being clearly better than smoken up like the owner said he's run 8 x 2nd's in G1's and been beaten a combined 5m.

Sad that BAF got beat? Strewth he's won his fair share and smoken up deserved one of these one day. I didn't bet but would've been sad to see him get rolled again.

Didn't see enough of popular arm to comment but he didn't win 4 inters so hard to say he clearly better too, I'm sure it would've been a close race.
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