Racehorse TALK

 Wow, talk about a generalisation. I have had corporate accounts closed and I only bet in WA. I don't even know anyone in WA. All the information I study is publically available and most of it is free.
 Peter, you come across as someone who loses on the punt and the easy out is to blame insider knowledge. Plenty of people with inside knowledge lose on the punt and some people win with no inside knowledge.
 As in most things in life, some people have more aptitude than others when it comes to the punt. Also, the harder you work, the luckier you get.

Peter,

Can you understand basic concepts?  I was not inferring to the dogs running inconsistently, I was referring to the markets getting it wrong.

Come to think of it Peter, are you an advocate of the Efficient Markets Hypothesis?  If so, which form?

Your answers may explain your views on this subject.

It is hard for a public market to embrace secrets known only to insiders

Connections believing a favoured contender can't or won't win, presumably means it will be easy late, when they back something else.

While it is not required that connections betting on other runners shown their hand, it would be good if their bets on others were subsequently disclosed to reveal their failure to disclose something the market obviously did not know.

For a beting market to be fair, 'insider connections' should be required to disclose bets on other runners no later than 15 minutes before start time.

What is it you are saying - that if you have a horse (or dog) in a race, and you think it can't win or is "under the odds", then you will back something else?

While it is indeed possible, I doubt it is a particularly common occurrence.

Further, what I am talking about is not "secrets", it is situations that are available to the public - if they care to look.

BTW, you didn't answer my question re the EMH?

 Yes, that'd work. Tell the world you've backed something else so you get a better price and then get a mate to back your horse.........
 Are you for real?

I did answer the question and I am for real

The 'EMH" is about market prices reflecting all generally known information, and they usually do -- the game is up if insiders take advantage of  secrets not known to the wider public.

Playing 'come in sucker' is exactly the rat-bait internded by requiring insiders to disclose their hand -- it would take five minutes to find any 'winning' friends who knew a dummy pass had been thrown.

Some people have not been paying attention to the speed with which the authorities found those responsible for pulling stunts at the football, or putting a bomb around the neck of a schoolgirl: the next lesson in this sequence is the coming round-up of those in-the-know about which runners at the trots were given a free kick.

In thought you were an EMH adherent.

What I have been pointing out Peter is that in many of the cases you are talking about, the information is available - you just choose not look for it or don't find it.

You are right of course that stewards have to be vigilant, and you are right that inquiries should be opened retrospectively, but to basically leap to the conclusion that any well backed long priced winner is based on fraud (and while you may deny it, that is exactly what you are saying) sends you well over to the tin foil side.

SMH article today.


Police open inquiry into race fixing Nick Ralston
August 28, 2011
 .A POLICE investigation has commenced into allegations of race fixing and corruption within the state's harness racing industry.

Harness Racing NSW began an inquiry more than six months ago into allegations trainers were given tip-offs their horses would not be tested in certain races, allowing them to use banned substances.

Officials took their findings to police a fortnight ago and detectives have carried out preliminary inquiries to determine whether there was a criminal matter.

Advertisement: Story continues below A strike force, named Tairora, has been established to investigate the allegations that have dogged the sport over the past month. It will be led by detectives from the Firearms and Organised Crime Squad, the same unit that investigated the betting scandal allegations in the NRL.

''The strike force has been established to investigate allegations of race-fixing and corruption in the harness racing industry,'' a police spokeswoman told The Sun-Herald. ''Investigations are continuing.''

At least 28 people, including punters, are believed to have been contacted by Harness Racing NSW as part of its inquiry.

To protect the sport, the chief executive of Harness Racing NSW, Sam Nati, has said it was prepared to take civil action against anyone involved in the drug scandal.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/police-open-inquiry-into-race-fixing-20110827-1jfd4.html#ixzz1WH9GBKG1

Another article from SMH today.


Swab scandal a chance to clean house Chris Roots
August 28, 2011
 .The year 2012 was supposed to start the extra golden era of harness racing. Instead the next 12 months will be a fight for the sport to survive rather than flourish.

The scandal over inside knowledge of swabbing and betting is going to clear out several players from the industry. Stewards Matthew Bentley and Paul O'Toole are already gone. Trainers and drivers will follow.

But so will sponsors, who don't want their product related to a sport that is seen as corrupt.

Advertisement: Story continues below The image of the trots has always been one where anything goes. The rhyming slang of the red hots is something the sport has to live with. This scandal reinforces that underlying image. However, it is a great night out and for the first time in many years, Menangle Park offers the opportunity to expose a new generation to the sport.

Based near Campbelltown, the track could have attracted families for a night out and perhaps to own a horse. But a battling family man is not going to put his money into a sport where he thinks he will get stung.

There have been various instances of stings at trots but the latest is by far the worst.

It was ingrained corruption. Stewards decided which horse would be swabbed, the final check of integrity. But they were selling the information, tarnishing the integrity of the whole sport.

The practice mainly took place at Penrith, Bathurst and Bankstown, where swabbing of winners was discretionary. At metropolitan meetings, all winners were swabbed.

It was called getting the green light. When the trainer or connections of a horse knew there would be no swab, pre or post race, they could use banned substances on their horse to help it win.

It is rumoured the rate for no swab was somewhere between $500 and $2000. It is not life-changing money and it would be hard to win more than $10,000 betting on a harness race.

Licensees caught in the net of this investigation will be left to wonder if it was worth it as they watch prizemoney double at Menangle from the beginning of next year. Their legacy will be the damage they have caused the sport as they spend a lot of enforced time away from it.

If there is any good news to come from this scandal, it will be a clear-out the sport needs before the new era. By the time the new year rolls around, there will be tighter integrity practices and cleaner racing.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/swab-scandal-a-chance-to-clean-house-20110827-1jff1.html#ixzz1WH9u7d9j

This has been going on for decades, and how come no mention of Newcastle trots, where a punter was warned off racecources for offering bribes to drivers ? You seriously reckon some drivers didn't take/aren't taking up the offers ? You only need to check opening tote prices and watch fluctuations and the late tote crunches to get a handle of what's going on (not to mention betfair lays) And the worst of the worst is up in sunny Queensland, spiritual home of boat racing, all explained away by commentators/tipsters alike as "the Dixon factor" what a joke that is. This Dixon dude, how many races has he won outside of Queensland ? Actually make that Gold Coast/Albion park. I have basically stopped betting on all Queensland trots venues, and Newcastle is a no go zone as well Will be interesting to see the names of drivers (and punters) that get barred when this investigation is completed. I'm sure plenty of dots will join together

The altest from SMH below.


Trots driver free to race despite fraud admission Tom Reilly, Chris Roots
September 2, 2011

A LEADING harness racing driver has been allowed to continue competing despite admitting his involvement in a corruption scandal that threatens to destroy the sport.

The driver, who cannot be named for legal reasons, met the head of harness racing in NSW and confirmed his involvement in the fraud, in which it is alleged crooked stewards allowed horses to be doped as part of an elaborate betting sting.

Since that meeting, the driver, who is in his 20s, has won several races on tracks in the state.

Advertisement: Story continues below The revelation comes as trotting - on which more than $2.2 billion a year is wagered - battles to restore its reputation amid fears that hundreds of races could have been fixed.

Parallel investigations are being conducted by police detectives and the head of integrity at Harness Racing NSW.

The Herald can also reveal that more than 40 trainers, drivers and owners have been asked to provide documents, including phone records, to the sport's authorities as they try to establish links among corrupt participants.

A source familiar with the investigation said some trainers and drivers had submitted incomplete phone records, and others had claimed not to own mobile phones despite having regularly been seen talking on handsets. No one under suspicion has yet lost their licence.

A racecourse insider said of the driver's meeting with the chief executive of Harness Racing NSW, Sam Nati: "Driver X [name withheld by the Herald] met with Sam and took along his parents. He put his hands up to being involved in two races that were hot, but it became clear that Sam knew of more involvement and that this wasn't going to be something that could be hushed up."

The driver has confirmed the meeting but denied making any admission of illegal activity. His father told the Herald: ''Yeah, I met Sam for a beer and my son came along. There's nothing unusual or illegal in that.''

Asked if they had discussed corruption, he replied: ''We didn't talk about nothing.''

Last night, Mr Nati said: "We have had a number of informal discussions with various participants. But who those people are and what was discussed is confidential until such time as they are formally interviewed as part of the investigation.

"Some people have suggested that those suspected of being involved should have been stood down pending the outcome of the inquiry … but this inquiry is far-reaching and all-encompassing so we believe [it's right] to adopt the innocent until proven guilty edict."

The Herald understands that harness racing officials have told participants that involvement in the scam cannot go unpunished but "penalties will be mitigated" if those involved provide information that assists investigations.

The scandal erupted when the car belonging to the chief steward, Bill Cable, was firebombed on August 5. The next Monday, two stewards - Matthew Bentley, 24, and Paul O'Toole, 47 - resigned after being confronted with evidence of alleged wrongdoing.

Authorities will allege both men were receiving payments - perhaps as much as $1000 a horse - not to test certain runners for drugs, thereby giving corrupt trainers, punters and drivers a huge advantage in orchestrating betting plunges. It is believed as many as 80 per cent of the doped horses won their races.

On Wednesday, Harness Racing NSW announced it would allocate up to $1 million for an integrity fund to cover costs from the scandal. The money will also be used to increase race day drug testing and provide greater security on the track.

''There's no doubt that, in terms of perception and ill feeling, we've hit rock bottom, but I believe we can bounce back,'' Mr Nati said.

''I'm pleased the police have announced a task force so that people can have the confidence that it [the scandal] is being investigated properly.''


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/trots-driver-free-to-race-despite-fraud-admission-20110901-1jo56.html#ixzz1WpikInfF

It gets more and more interesting. Another article from SMH today. Wonder why the daily tele is not following this as much.


Baking soda made pacers hot to trot Tom Reilly, Chris Roots
September 4, 2011
 .IT'S a cocktail of drugs that could fuel Keith Richards: cocaine, speed and Viagra.

All these substances, though, have been given to trotting horses in the past two years by desperate NSW trainers willing to break the sport's rules to gain success.

But the "dope" at the centre of the scandal that has engulfed harness racing in the last month was not supplied by a dishonest chemist or drug dealer. The most pernicious substance corrupting the sport is available on any supermarket shelf: baking soda.

Advertisement: Story continues below A source close to the investigation, as well as current trainers (at least one of who is under suspicion for possible involvement in the rort) say that baking soda or its chemical name - sodium bicarbonate - was almost certainly given to all the runners in the scam. ''It's easy to give and as cheap as you like,'' said one trainer, who did not want to be named. ''And it works a lot bloody better than anything else.''

Authorities will allege that two stewards - 47-year-old Paul O'Toole and Matthew Bentley, 24 - whose job it was to police harness racing, received money to not drug test certain horses. This gave trainers the green light to dope their horses and organise betting stings with a group including big punters and owners. It is believed that up to 80 per cent of the doped horses may have won their races.

Sodium bicarbonate is mixed with water, sugar and other substances and - through a tube that is pushed down a horse's nostril - pumped into the animal's stomach. Once in the system it mops up lactic acid, giving horses a huge advantage in endurance events. Because it exists naturally in horses, detection depends on blood tests before a race. It is also allowed to be administered on non-racing days as an aid to recovery, and is only banned in elevated levels when competing.

Another harness racing trainer, who admitted to The Sun-Herald that he gave horses in his care illegal substances, claimed his peers had tried everything to get an advantage.

''You name it and people have done it. coke, speed, caffeine, Viagra, EPO - it's all been tried by people here in Australia,'' said the trainer on condition of anonymity.

While he believes erythropoietin (EPO) - a drug that increases endurance - has been tried with success in trotting, its expense, about $1000 a course of treatment, would prove prohibitive for many trainers. The trainer added: ''The advantage of bicarb is that you're allowed to use it on non-race days, so nobody can come in your barn and arrest you for having it. If you're caught with narcotics or more serious doping agents like EPO, that's your licence gone and you've probably got police asking you questions, too.''

The Sun-Herald has been told that trainers in the rort were also regularly administering phenylbutazone or ''bute'', an equine painkiller, and Lasix, a diuretic that helps prevent horses from bleeding internally, both of which are banned on race days.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/baking-soda-made-pacers-hot-to-trot-20110903-1jrde.html#ixzz1WxGPekVO