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2012-May-26, 04:07 PM

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Author Topic: TOTE Tasmania / Tatts  (Read 8234 times)
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Bubbasmith
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Original Post 2011-Oct-19, 02:49 PM

From this morning's Herald Sun newspaper....

Tatts' Interest In Tote Tassie


GAMING giant Tatts has expressed an interest in taking over betting agency TOTE Tasmania, after the Tasmanian Government confirmed it is back on the market.
Tatts, which owns Queensland's off-course betting agency Unitab, is one of several industry players that could benefit by using TOTE to take advantage of a punting market wider than Tasmania.
Analysts said the most likely parties interested would be Tatts, Tabcorp or offshore bookmakers including Ladbrokes.
The Tasmanian Government has confirmed the cash-strapped island state is open to offers. Tabcorp, which holds the off-course licence in Victoria and NSW, had no comment.
The government last attempted to sell TOTE in 2009 but the process crashed when no bidder would meet its asking price, believed to be between $200 million and $250 million. Merrill Lynch at the time expected a sale price of $103 million.
Since then, TOTE has expanded by attracting big off-shore punters with offers that interstate totes can't match due to the generous tax concessions of the Tasmanian Government.
"They are providing premium punters with great deals, which a lot of people think would be untenable without the help of the government," one analyst said.
He said that if Tatts did acquire TOTE, it might be a cheaper vehicle than its Unitab operation to set up betting shopfronts in competition with Tabcorp in Victoria.
Tatts is fighting a legal battle for approval to open shops in Victoria.
Tatts spokesman Michael Mangos said yesterday: "We had a look at Tote Tasmania before and we would do so again. But it would have to be a commercially sensible arrangement for us to participate."
Betfair Australia gives punters an online TOTE option, but the Hobart-based internet gambling agency's chief Andrew Twaits said it had not considered buying in.
Industry sources said TOTE shares the betting pool of Tabcorp's SuperTAB and without that arrangement it would not have the liquidity to attract a significant proportion of the gambling dollar.

Maybe TOTE Tasmania considers mainland Australia " off-shore" or maybe ZR & DW place their bets when they are in a dinghy sitting in the Derwent River, otherwise how can they be "off- shore " punters
« Last Edit: 2011-Oct-19, 03:01 PM by Bubbasmith » Logged
 
TeeDee
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2012-Jan-08, 02:14 PM

They already steat money from other divs through rounding down, we've been through that on that other thread.

I did also state on that thread that alot of money back divs have a true dive below $1
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jfc
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2012-Feb-18, 03:29 AM

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2012/02/18/302011_most-popular-stories.html

Coleman delusional to the end.

 "Any suggestion that as a result of rebates or commissions ordinary punters are subsidising TOTE Tasmania's larger customers is also wrong."

Pants on fire, Tassie Tugger!

My recent calculations proved that Victorian Tote punters had returns below the legal guarantees.

And what part of this don't you understand?

Settlement from other TABS:

+$69 million


« Last Edit: 2012-Feb-18, 03:55 AM by jfc » Logged
DJH
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2012-Feb-18, 09:13 AM

Can you explain to me, jfc, how Supertab  punters are being ripped off because Tas Tote punters are winning?

I must be a little bit simple
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Bubbasmith
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2012-Feb-18, 09:43 AM

DJH

This is the seventh page of this thread...If you troll back through those seven pages you will get your answer.
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jfc
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2012-Feb-18, 09:54 AM

Can you explain to me, jfc, how Supertab  punters are being ripped off because Tas Tote punters are winning?

I must be a little bit simple


In a recent post I proved that Victoria paid out below the legal minimum.

I didn't have to do that for myself because the $69 million settlement said enough for me.

But my recent alternate calculation seemed a show stopper.
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DJH
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2012-Feb-18, 10:05 AM

The $69 million settlement proves nothing and you, assuming you are semi intelligent, know that!!

All that proves is that the smartest punters have been betting through TT, as you would expect with the rebates on offer.

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Bubbasmith
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2012-Feb-18, 10:52 AM



DJH..for your information...

After glossing over the annual report of the Australian Racing Board I have noted a few pertinent points..

A. National Internet turnover  for the 2010/11 financial year...

NSW..$406 million
ViC..$355 million
Qld..$126 million
SA...$88 million
WA.. $155 million
ACT..$ 36 million
NT..$ 12 million
TAS..$529 million....that's right, NSW with 14 times and Victoria with 11 times the population of Tasmania  both have less internet turnover than Tasmania

Further analysis of that amount is extraordinary. In 2005/06 Tasmania's internet turnover was $7.5 million, in 2006/07 $17 million, in 2007/08 $ 90 million,  in 2008/09 $ 237 million, in 2009/10 $ 366 million & in 2010/11 $ 529 million

As Julius Sumner Miller once said "why is that so" ?

Tote Tasmania since 2007/08 has undertaken a system of giving rebates to premium punters, whereby those punters have been encouraged to bet into Tote Tasmanian pools fully knowing their investments would be merged into the larger Supertab pools. At first glance one might think, what is wrong with that? The punter is better off, and Tote Tasmania receives a commission on those bets, albeit a little less than normal,and everybody in the Apple Isle is happy. However as it has been disclosed in the latest annual report of Tote Tasmania ,that is not the way it has worked out..

In that report Tote Tasmania made a profit of only $ 1.5 million on a total turnover of $ 937 million  because it  must have given virtually all its commission back as kickbacks to its premium punters. You may ask what is wrong with that ?

Firstly, Tasmanian taxpayers were taken to the cleaners by not receiving their legitimate share of the commission on that turnover.

Secondly, those premium punters, with those generous rebates have been given an arm chair ride over other punters to such an extent that Tote Tasmania received a settlement from Supertab of   $69 million in the last financial year. That money is money ripped off other punters in Victoria, ACT & WA betting into Supertab pools, by way of lesser dividends paid out by Supertab due to Tote Tasmania  paying out to "winning punters" in Tasmania. Logically, if Tote Tasmania's investment were excluded from Supertab pools the dividends declared to Victorian, WA & ACT punters would have been higher.


B.Tote Tasmania Telephone Betting Turnover:

In 2005/06 FY = $22 million and in the following 5 financial years only varied by $1 million and bottomed out in the 2010/11 FY at $20 million

C.Tote Tasmania Retail Turnover ( TAB, Pub Outlets)  ....

2005/06 = $192 m
2006/07= $230 m
2007/08 = $ 232 m
2008/09 = $195m
2009/10 =$110 m
2010/11= $ 105 m

From the above, it appears, that not only those betting in Vic, WA & ACT into Supertab pools are been ripped off, but run of the mill punters in Tasmania have also been taken to the cleaners . Surely how else can anyone explain the fall in turnover  from $232 m in 2007/08 to $105 m in 2010/11 . The economy in Tasmania is admittedly the weakest in Australia, but for turnover in retail outlets to drop by 55% in 4 years beggars belief. If run of the mill punters in Tasmania were winning any share of that $69 million Tabcorp settlement last year their turnover, due to the churn effect, would have increased, yet their turnover has gone out the back door.

From all of the above it appears most, if not all, of that $69 million settlement has finished up in the hands of premium punters.




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jfc
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2012-Feb-20, 07:04 AM

The $69 million settlement proves nothing and you, assuming you are semi intelligent, know that!!

All that proves is that the smartest punters have been betting through TT, as you would expect with the rebates on offer.





Stop kidding yourself.

If those betting there are anything like those once pushing their weight around the tracks, then many are far from smart.

Drug tsars, illegal bookmakers passing themselves off as commission agents, brats with an inheritance, suiciders, unemployable bridge players.

As with Gilbert, I've got a little list.
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jfc
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2012-Feb-21, 01:14 PM

http://www.examiner.com.au/news/local/news/general/tote-accused-of-giving-away-profits/2459884.aspx?storypage=0

Looks like this is not going to go away.


"A spokesman for Racing Minister Bryan Green said the government was not aware of the rebate deals between Tote and high-end gamblers and would not be drawn on whether the minister supported them."

Another one for Ripley!

If the Racing Minister is really not aware, then he is failing to do his job.



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Skybeau
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2012-Feb-21, 01:36 PM

If they sell Tote Tasmania can the new owner stop the rebates or are they required to fulfill the deal already in place?
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sobig
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2012-Feb-21, 02:16 PM

If they sell Tote Tasmania can the new owner stop the rebates or are they required to fulfill the deal already in place?


They have sold to Tatts
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jfc
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2012-Feb-23, 08:19 AM

http://www.examiner.com.au/news/local/news/business/tote-sale-disclosure-sought/2464721.aspx

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-22/20120223-tote-inquiry/3846098/?site=hobart&section=news

Secrets to be revealed on Friday?


``That information was received in-confidence on the basis that it could jeopardise the sales process. Now that the sale has happened, I personally can't see any reason why it should remain so. I intend to put that motion before the committee on Friday.''


Withhold secrets that could jeopardise the sale from bidders?

In other words provide fraudulent and defective information to bidders?

So losing bidders can sue?

And the winner can opt out of the sale?


Makes sense to me.



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jfc
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2012-Feb-24, 10:01 AM

http://www.examiner.com.au/news/local/sport/horse-racing/bid-to-get-tatts-boss-to-front-hearing/2466098.aspx

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-22/tas-parliament-to-probe-betting-agency/3846292

Even made it to TV now!

Given the amount of coverage preceding the inquiry, could this one be the first ever that isn't a whitewash?

Obviously there was one before but Bob Hawke managed to reverse it.

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jfc
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2012-Feb-26, 08:28 AM

http://www.examiner.com.au/news/local/news/business/majority-lose-jobs-at-tote/2467215.aspx#comments

Tremendous examples of incompetence at the first day of the inquity.

This should be about getting facts. Particularly about the creative accounting used to bury kickbacks.


"Treasury secretary Martin Wallace, who later gave evidence to the committee, was accused of touting misleading figures when he said he understood the majority of staff would keep their jobs.

``Aren't you alarmed that you have been provided with misleading information?'' committee chairman Kim Booth asked during a tense exchange.

Mr Wallace said that the situation could have been much worse if the business remained in government hands.

``We could have been faced with the prospect of winding up Tote with the loss of all jobs,'' Mr Wallace said.

Tatts managing director Dick McIlwain refused a request to give evidence."

The inquiry is insane to have asked McIlwain to testify, since he had nothing to do with the fiasco.


Wallace is effectively admitting the Tote Tasmania was about to go belly up.

And asking Wallace whether he is alarmed is improper, as that information is irrelevant. How can he both be the victim of misleading information and touting the same?

Of course he failed to answer Booth's question. And no one cares.


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jfc
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2012-Mar-13, 06:13 AM

The inquiry (apparently held on Fridays) appears unwilling to move past the pointless issue of jobs. And onto the crucial kickback scandal.

Had jobs been a condition of the sale, then no one would have bought Tote Tasmania.

Meanwhile the Supreme Court of Victoria is scheduled to get involved in the Sports Alive collapse.

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2012/03/13/308931_tasmania-news.html
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