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Author Topic: Save Our Australian Bred Stayers Fund  (Read 1111 times)
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Original Post 2011-Oct-27, 01:05 AM

Save Our Australian Bred Stayers Fund
Breednet - Media Release - Wednesday, 26 October 2011

Respected bloodstock agent Brett Howard has noted the lack of Aussie bred stayers in the running for this year's Melbourne Cup and offers his thoughts.

Brett Howard - Right now I'm looking at the market for next Tuesday's Melbourne Cup and there is not one Australian bred horse amongst the top twenty horses in the betting. I ask the Australian thoroughbred breeder, how does this make you feel?

Is this a reflection of our inability or lack of interest to breed a superior staying horse? Is it something we should be concerned about? Is this just an "abnormal” year? Should we just continue to focus on breeding fast precocious two-year-olds and sprinter/milers? Can we apportion some of the "blame” to the Australian trainers and owners for "pushing” their Australian bred staying horses too hard too early in their careers? Or should we just worry about breeding the winners of the other 19,999 races run in Australia each year, rather than attempting to breed the winner of our greatest race?

The Australian breeder has proven beyond reasonable doubt to the rest of the world they can produce a superior sprinter, but while we've been pouring all our energies into achieving this feat, I feel we've definitely taken our eye off the ball in regards to breeding the superior stayer. In the past we've relied heavily on the New Zealand breeder to plug this gap, however, due to a lack of new investment by the Kiwi breeders into new stallion prospects and new broodmares over the past twenty years and a large number of their promising types being sold to Asia, they are now also falling behind in this area. There are three NZ bred horses amongst the first twenty in the betting, with Tullamore leading the way at $21.

Should the Australian (and NZ) breeders be concerned that their regular clientele are now taking their dollars to Europe and splurging them on lightly raced and proven staying types? Is this exodus of money likely to accelerate as more and more of these horses hit our shores and win more and more of our middle distance and staying races? As a direct result of these horses are being purchased, could this mean owners will have less money to spend on the Australian and NZ bred yearlings at next year's sales? Is this an acceptable scenario? If your answer is no, are you prepared to do anything about it?

At present the commercial breeder knows it's safer to breed a well muscled, precocious 2yo sprinting type to sell as a yearling because the Australian trainers are paying you more money for yearlings with this physique than a yearling that's immature, leggy and going to need some time. It's definitely a catch twenty-two situation.

Does the Australian breeder accept this is their plight and just sticks to what they currently do very well, i.e. breed Golden Slipper winners and Champion Sprinters? But can we afford to ignore the following facts? The information is a little dated (2009/2010 season) and looks at the top fifty Australian races based on prize money:

1) 5 of the top 8 races (62.5%) are run at distances beyond 1600m.

2) 17 of the top 50 races (34%) are run at distances beyond 1600m.

3) $22.2 million of the $47.86 million offered (46%) is for races run beyond 1600m.

You would assume most racehorse owners are aspirational. When they purchase a young unraced horse their dream would be to have a runner in these top fifty races. As it stands the Australian and NZ breeder is clearly not capable of catering to their clientele's needs or wants, so it is only natural their clientele will look elsewhere to fulfil them, hence, their ever increasing forays into Europe.

Personally it is my belief that the Australian breeder can produce a superior stayer – if they want to. He is probably going to hate me for giving him up however I know of one Aussie breeder who is actually happy to breed and race a stayer and has definitely been a beneficiary of the present status quo. Have a look at some of the horses he has been involved in breeding and racing; Southern Speed (pictured Taron Clarke Photography) (Caulfield Cup), Rebel Raider (VRC Derby, SA Derby), Gold Guru (AJC Derby, Australian Guineas (2000m)), Serious Speed (Thousand Guineas, 2nd VRC Oaks), Devil Moon (Turnbull Stakes and over $1m earnings), Gallant Guru (Sandown Classic, $800,000+ earnings), Shamoline Warrior (Norman Robinson Stakes), plus he's got Perfect Punch going around in this Saturday's VRC Derby. If suddenly more breeders were prepared to follow Harry's lead, then due to increased competition, his results may not be as great. However, if no one wants to change the ir approach, his horses will continue to claim some of Australia's biggest staying races.

If our breeders are prepared to produce a better class stayer, one already proven approach is to import more breeding stock from the Northern Hemisphere (USA and Europe primarily). The results these imported mares continually rack up are simply outstanding. Just have a look at last Saturday's Cox Plate, Australasia's premier middle distance race, where 40% of the Australasian bred runners were out of imported mares: Helmet, King's Rose, Avienus, Wall Street and Rekindled Interest. In recent times US bred mares have produced the likes of (in alphabetical order) Absolut Glam, All American, Alverta, Anabandana, Exceed and Excel, Foxwedge, Gallica, Hellenus, Hot Snitzel, Irish Lights, Makybe Diva, Maldivian, Mentality, Miss Finland, Northern Meteor, Republic Lass, Smart Missile, Swiss Ace, Theseo, Typhoon Zed and Zavite. And then consider our greatest home bred sires in the past ten years are either sons or grandsons of mares conceived in the USA &n dash; Redoute's Choice, Zabeel, Encosta De Lago and Flying Spur.

For a number of years now I have been a regular visitor to the annual Kentucky November breeding stock sales. From the small number of mares Randwick Bloodstock has been involved with importing from the USA, these mares have produced the likes of Hasna (Champion Australian 2yo), Diatribe (VATC Caulfield Cup, STC Rosehill Guineas) and Blue Murder (SAJC SA Derby) (NB: two of these three horses won Group 1 races at 2400m). These three mares were purchased from as little as $25,000 and all were under $100,000. And at the Kentucky sales over the past 2 years we have been able to secure for clients horses from world class female lines including close family relations to Danehill, Last Tycoon and Vindication (Champion US 2yo). Once again these were purchased from as little as $25,000 and all secured for less than $100,000. Some information and pedigrees for some our recent purchases are below.

If we plan to keep Australasia at the forefront of world breeding it is imperative we continue to "invigorate” our herd with these international female lines. Late next week I will again head to Kentucky to attend their breeding stock sales in the hope of returning with a mare or two which in time will see their produce added to the aforementioned list of top class racehorses. If you have a genuine interest in adding an imported mare to your breeding band, I would be pleased to hear from you. There are over 2,000 broodmares and broodmare prospects catalogued for the Fasig-Tipton Sale (6th November) and the Keeneland Sale (7th to 17th November). The catalogues can be downloaded from the each sales company's web sites as PDF files or if you would like hard copies please let me know and we will organise to have the catalogues posted to you ASAP. It is also worth noting the Aussie/US Dollar rate which looks like be ing at its highest level ever for these sales (today's rate: AUD1.00 = USD1.04).

Unfortunately this week we cannot offer you much in the way of horses for sale – in fact we have nothing left to sell! Over the past few months we've been able to place most of the stock which has been listed with us. It is normal around this time of year for our bank of listings to be very thin, and we would expect from mid-November onwards we will start to get a steady stream of new stock to sell.

Until next time please think about making a contribution to the SOABSF (Save Our Australian Bred Stayers Fund). They currently need all the help they can get.

News from Randwick Bloodstock

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winner
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2011-Oct-27, 07:53 AM

Quote
1) 5 of the top 8 races (62.5%) are run at distances beyond 1600m.

2) 17 of the top 50 races (34%) are run at distances beyond 1600m.

3) $22.2 million of the $47.86 million offered (46%) is for races run beyond 1600m.




1600m is hardly a staying event. I assume most of these races would be around 2000m?

If we are talking about the Melbourne cup (3200m) we need to know how many races are 2400m and beyond?
« Last Edit: 2011-Oct-27, 07:56 AM by winner » Logged
makybediva
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2011-Oct-27, 01:38 PM

So does anyone have any suggestions as to which Australian sires could produce a top stayer?  Lonhro or Reset are both Zabeel line stallions, but could they get a Cup winner?  I'd steer clear of Danehill line stallions.  I'm definately no expert but wondered if any of the breeding buffs on here have thoughts on the subject?
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2011-Oct-28, 12:00 AM

When you ask if Australian sire, do you include shuttlers as well ?

Duke Of Marmalade
Teofilo
High Chaparral
Medaglia D'Oro
Dylan Thomas
Street Cry
Super Saver
Street Sense
Lope De Vega
New Approach
Authorized
Oratorio
Monaco Consul
Danewin
Henrythenavigator
Seventh Reason
Caught Courting
Manton
Rebel Raider
Desert King
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makybediva
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2011-Oct-28, 10:06 AM

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When you ask if Australian sire, do you include shuttlers as well ?


Well that's a good question.  Other than the obvious seasonal difference between the northern & southern hemisphere what is the difference between At First Sight & Tanby.  Both by Gallileo, but one is an international and one is an Australian.  Thoroughbred breeding is really very multicultural, even if a horse is conceived overseas or has shuttle sire, if it's foaled in Australia it's considered an Aussie isn't it? 

So maybe the issue isn't a lack of good staying bloodlines for breeders but the lack of owner and trainer interest in stayers other than for this one week a year where we all moan about the lack of good Australian bred stayers.

Sorry if that doesn't make much sense!  Just thinking out loud I guess.
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2011-Oct-28, 10:09 AM

It makes perfectly good sense.  Thumb Up
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j.r.b.
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2011-Oct-28, 05:04 PM

There is plenty of interest in racing stayers.

However, there is not much appetite for buying staying bred yearlings and waiting - and paying up - for 3 or 4 years to see if they're any good.

One way of avoiding that is to buy a ready made.
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2011-Oct-28, 10:04 PM

Most top class stayers are given a few runs at 2. They are just not flogged to get into sprints and high pressure races.

Americain had 2 starts at 2 for a win and placing at listed level and Jukebox Jury had 4 starts at 2 for a group 2 win and a group 1 placing.

They do not need to be molly coddled they just dont need to be flogged.

Most of the stayers at the top of the Racing Post ratings ( http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/statistic/international_ratings.sd ) raced at 2 and generally at a good level.

How many of our stayers are being flogged to get into the Melbourne Cup this week ? Surely what Tullamore is going through is not good for his future staying prospects.

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wily ole dog
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2011-Oct-29, 06:51 AM

After last night I suggest we throw some of the funds to 7's and he can plot the course for our stayers
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Shogun Lodge
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2011-Nov-03, 08:46 AM

Not sure how we would fix the (supposed?) problem...unless prizemoney for 2000m plus races was increased substantially.
Owners, silly or not, are hard to find as patient people. When you are paying bills you want some return, as soon as your horse allows it (potentially),
and it is highly likely your horse will be tried over 1000 or 1200 NO MATTER what you say, or feel about pedigree etc.
 How many thousands of good stayers have gone through their career having never ever been tried at a distance.
So many horses are tried to 1400, then owner gets call...it's slow mate....get rid of it....
Unless it was really worthwhile (prizemoney) trainers simply don't want to train stayers either.
Always amuses me all the 'country cups' as they are termed, being 1400 to 2000 races. 
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makybediva
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2011-Nov-03, 09:34 AM

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How many thousands of good stayers have gone through their career having never ever been tried at a distance.
So many horses are tried to 1400, then owner gets call...it's slow mate....get rid of it....
Unless it was really worthwhile (prizemoney) trainers simply don't want to train stayers either.


Yes, I think that is pretty spot on.  Doesn't seem like we have a lack of staying bred horses, just a lack of trainers and owners willing to show patience.  More races over 2000m and more prizemoney would be a start.  Bring back the prestige and respect for the other Cups.  I mean if the winners and placegetters of the Brisbane and Sydney Cups struggle to get into the MC field then we really are in trouble.  Seems like a lot of the Aussie horses were flogged over the last month trying to get into the Cup field, we need more high class staying races spread over the year with ballot free entry or a weight penalty for the Cup.
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2011-Nov-03, 10:29 AM

When Peter Moody was at Newmarket preparing his horse for Royal Ascot he noted how Luca Cumani was training his 2yos. Does anybody remember what he said about it ?

Looking at Europes premier stayers it seems to me there is no need to be ultra patient with stayers, they just need to be aimed at more suitable 2yo races. I believe the same could be said for Japanese horses.

Interestingly the Melbourne Cup quinella horses never ran at 2 but the vast majority of Europe's premier stayers do run at 2 and if they are going to be top class athletes they generally run very well at 2.
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Gintara
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2011-Nov-03, 02:34 PM

I was thinking about this today, I reckon we'll see a change when we consider Americain will stand here, So You Think (His sire is already here) etc standing.

Might take a few years but reckon it will swing  Undecided
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j.r.b.
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2011-Nov-03, 02:56 PM

Buyers were creaming themselves trying to buy High Chaparral yearlings at Karaka earlier this year.

And last season, breeders (ab)used High Chaparral to the point where, as one Hunter Valley insider phrased it, they were wheeling him out on a stretcher to cover mares.

He served 235 of 'em in 2010.

Surely there's a stayer or two amongst that lot?
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Gintara
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2011-Nov-03, 03:04 PM

I guess that's what I was getting at JRB, as you know I know bugger all about breeding but common sense would tell you with the likes of HC standing here we must be able to produce a stayer  chin
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