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2012-May-26, 09:23 PM

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Author Topic: Track Rating by Numbers a Farce  (Read 2762 times)
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Mercs2
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Original Post 2012-Jan-02, 04:08 PM

Matt Stewart alluded to it today and events at Flemington this afternoon only confirmed it.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/much-to-look-foward-to-in-2012/story-fn67siys-1226234382817
Quote
HE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY

RENOWNED nark John Hawkes never liked the idea of numbered track ratings.

When it was announced a few years back that tracks would be not just be rated heavy, slow, dead, good and fast - but would range from Heavy 10 to Fast 1 - his response was something like: "They can't even get a good right, what hope a Good 3?"

Hawkes was on the money.

Numbered ratings sounded good in theory because they would be more specific, more helpful to punters and trainers, than the broad deads, goods and fasts.

Problem is, the ratings bear little resemblance to the surface.

Every track manager wants to achieve a Good 3 because it sounds perfect. The official RVL website description of a Good 3 is: "An ideal track with some give."

So what's happened?

Almost every track comes up a Good 3, or starts as a Dead 4 with the promise of a Good 3 by race time.

Anything different and the track manager feels like he's failed.

Flemington recently was rated a Good 3.

The times suggested it was a Good 2. There are heaps of other examples.

The losers are the punters, of course, and the trainers, who race on an "ideal" Good 3 then put the horse's legs in a bucket of ice when it gets home.


First race was rated at a Dead 5.
How this was even possible after the heat and dry Melbourne has had the past week was beyond comical and the times proved it..

Race 1 a 0-82 over 1000 on the Dead 5 they ran 56.63.
Now my base rating for the 1000 at Flem is 57.4 at a rating of between 3-4. Now either the winner is exceptionally brilliant or the track rating is miles off.

Immediately the rack is upgraded to Dead 4.
In the third race they run 82.69 for the 1400 on the Dead 4. Unbelievable time for a F&M 0-82

Then we get to the Standish by which time the track is now a Good 3.
Two track upgrades in 3 hours. what

The winner Catapulted is a very good horse. Gr 2 at his best.
He runs 67.66 for the 1200.
My base is 69.2.

That is a ridiculous time for a Good 3. Even on a Fast 1 he is rating Gr 1 figures (and above).
Notwithstanding that there is room for error with my base figures and that Catapulted was a huge run, I would say the track today at Flemington was a Fast 0 or even almost a Fast -1.

And that was from Race 1.
Definitely not a Dead 5.

IMO the track figures these days are not worth the paper their printed on. I've seen Heavy 8's that were actually Heavy 12's as well so it works both ways.

I feel sorry for the poor track managers as surely they are under instructions to produce Dead 4s and 5s.

The stewards talk about integrity etc but its obvious to all and sundry that the track ratings as they stand are a farce.
« Last Edit: 2012-Jan-07, 09:46 PM by dubbledee » Logged
 
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Steward
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2012-Jan-20, 11:05 AM

Runway, it was a promoted as a "brainchild" of the gentleman concerned.  When, IMO, it's a load of nonsense.  (Mick Goodie agrees.)

The gentleman might be the best track preparer in the universe - but that doesn't qualify him to be the creator of a meaningful track rating scheme.  nowink



What qualifies Mick Goodie to dismiss the number ratings ?
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dubbledee
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2012-Jan-20, 11:05 AM

What qualifies you to accept them?  chin
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Steward
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2012-Jan-20, 11:07 AM

What qualifies you to accept them?  chin


ME.
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dubbledee
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2012-Jan-20, 11:21 AM

Oh, and you have sufficient knowledge of the measurement (should I say, guessing) of track ratings to question the right of the manager of one of Australia's biggest and best racecourses to criticise a system that's been forced upon him.

bop     lol
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2012-Jan-20, 11:40 AM

I do not find it any more or less difficult to find winners than I did prior to the numeral ratings commencing. Do you find you get more 4ths under the numerical system ?

Surely if the bloke in charge of Rosehill is capable of making the system, the bloke in Melbourne can work it out.

If a person is in charge of a Sydney track it automatically qualifies as superior to any other track curator in Australia.
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dubbledee
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2012-Jan-20, 12:20 PM

The bloke could be the best track curator on the planet. 

Doesn't convince me he knows a thing about the science of measurement, though.  Thaaaaaaaaaaat's the key.  Great Idea
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JWesleyHarding
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2012-Jan-20, 12:53 PM

Dunno why you dismiss my suggestion DD. chin

Chop off the numerals and, hey presto, you (and Goodie) have your wish.
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dubbledee
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2012-Jan-20, 01:09 PM

You didn't listen to Goodie?

He's got no option but to tag a number on to traditional ratings.  I sense he's asking for national agreement to dump the crazy system.  (I recall he wants just 4 ratings.  Good sense in that, too.)

Similarly, come Wed afternoon, and track managers are being pressured for a penetrometer reading for Saturday.  If it wasn't so sad, 'twould be hysterical.
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JWesleyHarding
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2012-Jan-20, 01:32 PM

Yes I listened to it.

Bit like asking kids whether they like extra homework.
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dubbledee
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2012-Jan-20, 03:23 PM

Here are a couple of pics of that wonderful instrument known as the "penetrometer".

In the second shot, I've tried to show the scale (or resolution) of the "instrument".  The divisions are centimetres, divided into 0.5 cm.





There's a short ledge at the bottom of the shaft, on which the operator places a foot.  This (in theory) sets the scale to 0.  In practice, it doesn't, depending on where one places the shaft.  So there's an error to begin with.

Once set up - presumably perpendicular although there's no mechanism to ensure it is - the 1kg weight that's clipped near the top of the shaft is released by depressing the handle.  It drops, causing the shaft the penetrate whatever it is it's resting on.  The first reading is taken (say 1.5).  Then, the weight is drawn to the top again, and released.  This is drop 2, and the reading is taken (say 3.5).  The weight is drawn to the top again, released, and reading 3 taken (say (5.0).  (I expect many who use this instrument will try to be creative with readings more tight than the 0.5 cm intervals marked.)

To calculate the reading for that point, we add 1.5 + 3.5 + 5.0 = 10, then divide by 3 (3.33) for an "average". 

What this figure means is a total mystery.  Anyone with knowledge of measurement would take the bat to it.   Why not just use the 5.0???

When the penetrometer is taken at EF, Bill Shuck and his team take 138 readings around the course.  Yes, 138!!!  In the straight, readings are taken at  2, 4 , 6, 8 and 10 metres from the running rail.  On the bends, at 2, 4 and 6 metres.

There are many reasons why the instrument has no place in measuring track ratings.  Just a few...

1.  It was designed to work on a bare soil profile - not on a racetrack covered with varying amounts of grass.  Source of error!!

2.  There will be inter-operator error.

3.  The method of calculating the reading (averaging the 3 drops) is nonsense.

4.  Delivering a reading such as 4.78 inside, 4.76 outside - when the instrument is calibrated in 0.5 cm intervals is a major worry.  Understand that the difference between 4.76 and 4.78 is 2 mm!!!  That comes from an instrument intended to be read on 50 mm intervals and whose accuracy would be +/- 150 mm at best.
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Peter Mair
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2012-Jan-22, 09:23 PM




Telling the telling times


Times, especially sectional times, on the day, tell the story on track conditions (and wind conditions) as they affect race outcomes across different distances, and different track and wind conditions around the track.

It is lamentable that metropolitan race clubs do not publish these figures in real time on the day.

The new TVN Network is making an effort to do so but at home punters need the 'facts' to be analysed, and publicized, by professionals as the day unfolds.
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Maximus
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2012-Jan-23, 09:27 AM

at home punters need the 'facts' to be analysed, and publicized, by professionals as the day unfolds.


Anything else you'd like provided for you while you're lazing on your couch? The "professionals" to also make your selections and place your bets? Perhaps a few hand-fed grapes and a foot massage?
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Mercs2
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2012-Jan-23, 09:47 AM

That track at Sunshine Coast Cushion yesterday was more Slow 6 or 7 than Good 3.
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dubbledee
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2012-Jan-23, 02:00 PM

Would like to be able to offer a solution, Mercs2.  chin
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dubbledee
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2012-Jan-25, 09:01 PM

I'm doing some research on the correlation of race times with state of track.

Some punters use a rigid time/weight figure, such as 1.5kg per sec, or something like that, when assessing the impact of weight change or difference in times run by different horses.  Probably no great variation with distance but for now I'm working on 1400m races only.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, with the basis for the scoring used (e.g. Don Scott, or whatever).

PS  This is not a trick question.
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