Racehorse TALK

Yes it is a disgrace.

There is no reason for it. 

Can be rounded to the nearest 5c when being paid out on winning tickets!!!!!

Absolutely, if a horse pays $1.04 in all probability is is paying $1.08 or $1.09 and has fallen over the step, only needs to fall to $1.09.99 and there goes  a massive % against the punter. So if say someone has $4 a place on a $1.09 div, that's a $4.36 collect, fair enough round it down to $4.35 no big deal, but to round it to $4.16 is a bit harsh (i assume the TAB agent would only whack up $4.15) The shorter the win or place dividend, the bigger the shafting. Obviously the favourites are by far the worst affected, i reckon on average i see 50 $1.04 dividends a day in all 3 codes, 7 days a week On average it's reasonable to assume they should be around $1.07 so the rake there is massive times 50 every day And not just the favourite, but every single horse that wins and places every day, thats around 250 races per day in all three codes, only the degree of shafting varies depending on the odds of the winners and placegetters, it's just more money in the TAB coffers The odds of a horse that pays $1.10 actually paying exactly $1.10 are massive, might happen once in 1000 races

Just to prove my point, i will take the trouble to post here how many $1.04 (and $1.00 rebate bets) were declared today so one can see the sheer size of the amount of money backers of favourites are being ripped off, and when i think about it, the journey from $1.20 (or should i say $1.19.99) to the $1.10 eventuality is even more harsh than the $1.09,99 to $1.04, the $1.04 acting as a cushion, no such luxury as in a $1.15 div 

Tell me this, why does anyone bet with the TAB?? They ask you to bend over, it isn't compulsory you know??

In saying that I am saying I won't bet with the TAB until they treat me with respect, you can whinge all you want while you continue to patronise them with you $$$$$$$'s you will continue to get shafted and that's a fact!!    

Jim, anyone that bets with a corporate bookie in Australia is in fact betting with the TAB, as that's where their bets get layed off automatically by a bot. They are not really bookies, they are commission agents colllecting a commision from TABCORP and TATTS for their custom. Us mere mortals dont get that privellage or benefit. And that goes for exotics too, same deal. Betfair that's a different story, fine if you're a straight out punter...of course you'd be much better off betting with them, it's a no brainer. But to each his own, straight out aint my go. But just the same i hate seing the daily rip-offs by rounding, it's good for nobody except TABCORP and their shareholders, and i cant see much benefit judging by the share price ($2.80 today) been flatlining for 6 months 

Well I wasn't just talking about the Corporates but at least with them you do get the "Best Tote" and good luck to them if they can get a "kickback" why would anyone care about what other s are doing, you should only worry about what is within your control, 2 of the greatest wastes of time is Regret and Revenge, if you bet with a single TAB you are taking around 120% in the Market(Win and Place when you add the rounding), best Tote is considerably under that, Betfair is even better!!
The only time I bet with a Bookie is when they offer "free" bets and they do it all the time, their service is infinitely better than the TAB's who are all take and give away nothing

In saying that I am a win punter, I have never had a Quadrella, and it has been a long time since I have had any sort of exotic bet so my needs are quite easy to meet, I just demand the opportunity to win on a fair playing surface, something the TAB doesn't seem to comprehend, then again if they have enough customers taking what they dish out why would they want to change?

Lets keep this thread on track as it is a very important one, I believe.

In this day and age there is absolutely NO reason why roundings should be applied, other than for the short term manipulation of TAB profits by management to ensure their continued employment

DD, you clearly have a strong feeling on the issue, it would be wise to post it in this thread I suspect 

You could at least wave the flag again DD 

Place 99% of my bets with BF, but if the TABS were not rounding then it would have to "force" prices upwards would it not?
So Yeah, add me to the list.

They're covering their arse for all the money back divs ie shorties and dead heats that have a true div of 70 or 80 cents, or even less.

I suspect they're still well in the black though.

Here's just one for you.

Do a search and you can fill a folder with them

http://www.racehorsetalk.com.au/index.php/topic,12478.0.html

One of the worst aspects of TAB betting is the practice of rounding the true dividends down to the lowest 10c.  It used to be to the lowest 5c, but the TABs felt they were entitled to steal another few per-cent from successful punters and adopted the "10c approach" with no concern for fairness.

Those who back short-priced favourites, or who bet for a place, carry a disproportionate share of the rip-off.  The shorter the dividend, the bigger the rip-off.  And of course, the bigger the pool, the bigger the rip-off.

On average, 5c is being stolen from every dividend.  (For some it will be 0c, for others it will be 9.99c.)

Regardless of who pays, rounding down is nothing short of an unconscionable rip-off.

I took a look at the TAB holds on Tuesday's Cup, specifically for the place (because that's where rounding is more of an issue).

The place holds and divvies for the respective TABs were:

VICTORIA $15,314,926  $3.20 $3.30 $3.00

NSW $12,218,859  $3.20 $3.00 $2.10

QLD $9,559,192 $3.50 $3.10 $2.10

I've worked on a uniform rake of 14.5%.  In reality it might be a bit more of less, but that's of no consequence for this exercise.

I did a "what if" using a hypothetical minimum true dividend of say, for Vic, of 3.20,  3.30, and 3.00, and a hypothetical maximum true dividend of 3.2999, 3.3999 and 3.0999.  This provides a basis to determine the size of the rounding rip-off.  Break the pool after commission into 3, divide by the true dividend to get the number of winning units, and multiply by the actual dividend to show what the TAB paid out.  Obviously, if the true dividend was 3.2000, the rounding yield is nil; the maximum rip-off occurs when the true divvy is 3.2999.

The results for the three TABs are as follows:

VICTORIA maximum rip-off $467,998
NSW maximum rip-off $375,751
QLD maximum rip-off $284,346

In practice, the totals are probably around 50% of the above.  In other words, around $560,000.

Without the rounding grab, the TABs' commissions from place bets would have totalled around $5,378,000.  The rounding has therefore increased the rake by 10%.  Nice, eh?

Win bets would have contributed a significant amount, as well.

Any wonder that the TABs are viewed with disdain by thinking punters?

It is Wrong and immoral, we all know that but they do it because they CAN, I will repeat that, They do it because they CAN!!

 like standing in a line at the Supermarket when they only have one Cashier operator working, I have often just walked out and left a Trolley full of Groceries sitting in the line of people waiting like sheep to be served, if everyone did it they would wake up and put on more cashiers, why would they take away from their bottom line if their Customers( or should I say Sheep??) will put up with it?? same with the TAB all they care about is their bottom line, even if everyone bet with the Corporates instead of the TAB's in effect they would be giving everyone a Discount( even if the Punters weren't actually getting it) alternatively use Betfair and none goes back to the TAB they may start to think about how to reverse the flow of money going away from them
I doubt all the whining without action will have any effect, it won't be anything but water off a ducks back!!

When you are punting do you consider yourself a customer of racing or a customer of your bookmaker ?