Racehorse TALK

Yes, a couple,DD.

 

You need to be a combination of both to succeed I would have thought. 

you can only sprout bullshit for a while magic in the end you have to get winnersor your gone.

DJH there is no way in the world that a Trainer can train 100 horses, there is no way in the world that anyone can train horses in 2 states, for mine horse training is very much a hands on business, I remember having my horse trained by one of Sydney's better trainers and when I called in unexpectedly I found that is was stabled at his sons stables, now the son may or may not have been as good as his dad but this particular trainer charged $80 a day while his son charged $50 a day, why should I pay $80 a day?? needless to say I took the horse straight off him and gave it to another trainer the same day,

while I am sure most of our top trainers are great horsemen they are NOT training all the horses that are trained in their name, they have Formen who do most of the "training" and report back, the whole point of being a Great trainer is you see things that the average trainer doesn't see, Foremen are virtual apprentices, would you pay for an intern to operate on you if the real surgeon wasn't even in the same state?? after all if he made a mistake he could call the surgeon on the phone and just follow instructions!1 It just ain't the same is it??

I have seen Gai work a horse and then not be satisfied and send it out to do some more work, if she just sent an SMS to her foreman with the work instructions would he work it and decide it wasn't enough?? I doubt it, he would just follow instructions to the letter, even the instructions from Gai would more than likely be to err on the side of working it less than needed rather than over working it, same with most if not all of the big teams, besides that most trainers would only train their top 20 or 30 horses and farm the rest out, that is why Joe Pride only has a relatively small team, he actually trains them!!

By the way if anyone can handle a big team it would be Gai, I just like to know when she goes "walkabout" when she ain't around her strike rate suffers!!

To answer your original Question, I want a horseman BUT I want him to be actually training my horse that is why if I was going to pick a trainer from Sydney's Top 10 it would be Joe Pride, not because he is a better horseman than the others but because if I was paying for Joe Pride I feel I would be getting Joe Pride!!

Jim,
You are spot on!!

I lived and worked in Sydney for several years and watched every trainer there and what they did.

Joe Pride is the ONLY trainer I would consider giving a horse to!!!


Joe is the  best trainer,other than myself obviously, although I made serious mistakes in my brief career.

DJ I am always "spot on" anyone who thinks any different are obviously WRONG!!  

John Size was another that I reckon actually trained his horses, Ford Cars can be Mass produced and can be made using the production line process, I will never be convinced Training Horses can be a Production line process and get the best results,

I also believe it is another reason why so many break down in this era, the people who are actually closest to the animal are not "experts" a lot of injuries ie, Bowed Tendons, would be lessened if caught early enough, they are not always easy to see until it is too late unless you are a very good horseman with a good eye, which is what Owners think they are paying for! I have seen many call in Vets to check every horses every morning to do what I believe the trainer should be doing, hell if he needs a Vet to tell him if his horses are sore then he ain't no horseman, Vets ain't a cheap exercise

Jim read Gai's blog on her website if you want to know when shes missing.

Would only consider giving a horse to Joe Pride myself, look at the work hes done with some of the tried horses hes gotten over the years, and as you guys said a small team.

Now if anyone has a few thousand just lying around...

Don't be so modest mate..............with your experience you should be  or getting close.

Sending a horse to a trainer is like sending your car to the mechanics. You pick out a mechanic shop that has a good rep or results by word of mouth. You know there may be a head mechanic & 3 other mechanics working there but who actually works on your car is a bit unknown unless you prod for answers.

Now the car runs well & everything seems to be in order, you can recommend that mechanic but you advise others by the name of the shop, not the actual mechanic.

I guess the bottom line is results & confidence they are doing what they say they are doing.
To compare that with racing, the trainer is the head mechanic but not the only one that will work with your horse. Like with big stables they might just set instructions & it then depends how good the other staff are in following instructions correctly & actually carrying them out correctly. This can be the downfall. 
 

The reason I am not the leading trainer in Australia, is that I have never wanted to train for anyone other than myself.

I MUST train my way!!!

Zoro I am afraid your analogy is grossly inaccurate, all Cars(of the same model) are exactly the same, identical so whatever the problem you can find it in a book, if a mistake is made the head mechanic can fix what the lesser mechanic has stuffed up, there are usually warranties that come with their work,

By contrast Horses are all individuals, mistakes cannot be fixed at a later date, mistakes can can be fatal to a horses racing future if not it's actual life, if your horse is actually being trained by a foreman and not the Head Honcho you are being cheated,

eg, the Trainer you are paying if he is one of the leading trainers is charging Top Dollar for his services, if the Foreman went out on his own and hung up his shingle his fees would be much, much less, whether he is as good or not is irrelevant,  you are being ripped off, I bet Chris Waller is actually training all of the Ingham horses but is he actually training Billy Bloggs horse who at best is a provincial/midweek class horse??

I tend to want to get what I pay for I don't want my horses farmed out while I pay for the best

I know what you mean but that is why the trainer has a foreman. He/she has too many horses & cannot do it on their own. They have to delegate the duties.
If you send your horse to a stable that has a foreman then you would have to expect he foreman must be doing something(a fair bit of the work) with organising/training the horse.

As an owner, cause you are not there, you would never really know who is actually training the horse.

I'm sure in all the big stables, the trainer is the figurehead & would only have time to check the critical parts & add their assessments. The bulk of the work would be done by the foreman & stable staff.
Whether that is right or not is up to the owner to decide if they are getting value for their $.