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Racehorse TALK

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Author Topic: Lest We Forget  (Read 3834 times)
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Wenona
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Original Post 2008-Dec-20, 07:03 AM

Good Morning All!!
                              As almost every system I've seen in this forum ends up selecting the fav (or near enough) and everyone is still persisting with them, then I'll assume that few have realised that these systems  are dead-ends (ie if they were winning methods long term, we would no longer be here and the bookies would've been blitzed!!). So here is something for those with a little courage who are prepared to think outside the square.This method has TWO variations. The first is for Saturday Metro and big race meetings on public holidays, as well as the occasional big Sunday meeting (ie the Hobart guineas on 29th Jan, or Canberra Cup  last year, if you can bear thinking about not joining me in celebrating the $315 win and $7700 exacta payout on S-Tab). The second variation is for all other days. Feel free to tweak it if you like. In either case NO RACES BELOW CLASS 3, nor jumps, nor 2yo races., So to variation ONE.
1) Take all horses which have not placed or won in their last three starts. Also, if a horse has ONE win or place in the previous three starts BUT the total of those three starts is 19 or more it is a selection as well. (A "0" is worth 10 and a spell has no bearing). ie 4456 or 4X56 is NO PLACE/WIN in past three.1018 = 19,  4928 =19, 5091 = 20 etc. 
2) Discard any horse from your selections if A) It has been beaten TWICE or THRICE by 10 lengths or more in the past three starts, B) It has finished within 2 length or less (or won!) at odds of 14-1 or more in the past three starts or, C) It is now down in class from it's previuous run.
3) Bet all selections if they get to $20 on the tote or SP.
  That's it. You will see that the two winners in Adelaide $24 and $69 were both selected by this method. You will soon discover that this method nails such winners almost every day and you will be surprised how few runners you will be betting, though there are about 20-25 per Saturday. The reason it works is as follows.
 Rule 1 is designed to get you looking at horses the others are ignoring. Places are extremely arbitrary (ie a horse could be 6th in a blanket finish or 2nd by 10 lengths, yet most mechanical systems will take much more notice of the "2nd" in the form) and anybody punting by following them will be forcing the prices of these "good-looking" form horse figures DOWN. Go to any TAB to see these punters/lemmings at work.
  Rule 2 is to decide if the horse in question is A) truly "hopeless" (we can forgive one bad run but not TWO) or B) Has already caused a boilover or nearly so, recently (beware of upsets that have ALREADY happened: that was the day we were supposed to have been there!) or C) The trainer has lost faith and is trying for "easier". Down in grade but still at 20s?? Hmmmmm.
   Rule 3. Self explanatery. We know the horse is not as bad as it "looks" but these odds indicate that we are in the small minority who have "the eye".
SECOND VARIATION: As before but any day and at 30s plus. Cheers.
PS This is not as complicated as it appears. Wait until two minutes before a race and then glance at the 20s + horses. You will immediately notice the form figures beside these animals and whether to look further (ie to the actual form). Then you will instantly see whether they have been close at odds or thrashed TWICE recently or are dropping in class. Expect 1 or 2 per race to qualify, sometimes 3 or 4. This will open up the way for Quins/Exactas/Tris etc. Good Luck.
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gallopers
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2009-Jan-26, 02:37 PM

mad cranky dog, sit boy.  lol
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Big Wheel
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2009-Jan-26, 02:47 PM

  grrrr grrrr lol   lol
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Big Wheel
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2009-Jan-26, 02:49 PM

 GALLOPS please tell me the protest will be dismissed mate
as i missed it cause i was arguing with whatever his name is
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triple7
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2009-Jan-26, 02:57 PM

Yeeessss, of course you're on the winner in the protest, roflmao.  lol
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Big Wheel
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2009-Jan-26, 03:16 PM

  i am not gonna bite mate
« Last Edit: 2009-Jan-26, 04:13 PM by BIG DOG » Logged
Mantaray
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2009-Jan-26, 03:47 PM

Thanks for the link Arakaan.

I think i have already read something from that bloke in another Forum.

He holds some sort of get-together at his place on hamilton island during the sailing week up there in winter. I don't know much about it but think it's something like your thing at Breakfast Creek  during the winter carnival, except they stay at his place and go cruising. Sounds like the way to go!! if only.

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Wenona
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2009-Feb-01, 03:04 PM

Just to clarify, as arakaan pointed out I have nothing to do with the original system.

The problem I had with it was the fact Punter would claim every long priced winner after the race, (even if it didn't fit the rules) and refused to partake in any type of record keeping.

The guy was delusional and eventually ended up claiming that he made a fortune living in France backing the favoured bracketed horse on the Fench Pari-mutual. He claimed that if a 2-1 chance and a 100-1 chance where bracketed he would back the 2-1 on the tote and get paid at 51-1 (average price of the two) if it won.  He then explained to us how the money the tote lost on that type of race was made up in extra profit when the 100-1 chance won.

After we explained how the French tote actually worked he left the forum.

As for the actual system, there's nothing in it that makes me think it could turn a profit. Betfair certainly enhances the chances of these long priced selection methods making money as huge prices many times the tote price can be offered.

If you back every horse over say $60 on the tote it's quite likely your return could be as low as 35 cents in the dollar. I haven't seen any analysis of favourite/longshot bias on betfair (which makes me think I should do it) however the return should be significantly higher. Betting into those 104% type Saturday markets I would be surprised if the overall return was less than 85 cents in the dollar on those same horses before commission. This greatly increases the probability of finding some type of screening method that could turn a profit.

I've got a couple of ideas that I would like to try out. If it's OK with Mantaray I'll post some thoughts in the 'Monitoring Longshots' thread. I'll post a list of horses that meet particular criteria (before the races) and we'll only count the ones that start $20 or more on Unitab.








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Mantaray
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2009-Feb-02, 12:39 PM

Thanks for clearing that up Wenona.

From my limited experience with the method posted, it's quite good. After 2 or 3 big winners a couple of weeks back it got another one on Saturday.  Ulladulla in BR8, after 23 misses. That was about $43 on one of the TABs but I got it at $75 with BF.
I think it was over $100 at one point.

Most difficult part was working out dropping in class. This is confusing..even in the form-guides. Lot's of people say stuff like "Horse X is down in class" but when you look at the money involved it's more.

As I say, I've jiggled it a bit.

BTW. Anyone who knows of Punter57, please E-Mail details
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OldLarsy
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2009-Feb-02, 01:34 PM

Because it's owners want a day in the sun in the Members enclosure at Royal Randwick on Australia Day wink


Archgate back at Kemspey where it belongs today
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Big Wheel
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2009-Feb-02, 01:43 PM

 Poor Archgate  will be flat out even There
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allhigh
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2009-Feb-02, 01:54 PM

 ile buy 8 shares, how much ??
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OldLarsy
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2009-Feb-02, 01:55 PM

ile buy 8 shares, how much ??


They'll probably pay you to take him  lol
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allhigh
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2009-Feb-02, 01:58 PM

 FFS............. lol
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