Racehorse TALK

of course the heading should read "Unraced".

In my opinion, it doesn't bother me either way.  I don't think u can read a great deal into trial form

from racenet.com

Trainer fury over compulsory Melbourne trials
Brad Waters
Saturday, 24 January 2009

Leading Melbourne trainers David Hayes and Mick Price have slammed Racing Victoria Limited’s decision to compel all horses to trial publicly before they race in the metropolitan area from April 1.

Price and Hayes were both very annoyed with the decision with both arguing that Melbourne racing will end up with “problems just like Sydney racing.”

“I don’t agree with it at all, but if it’s the rules I will have to go along with it” Hayes said.

“This will have a bad effect on the industry in Melbourne, field sizes will drop dramatically because these extra trials will come at a big cost to the industry.

“Betting on the races in Melbourne won’t change at all and Melbourne will end up with problems just like Sydney racing.

“Melbourne is the place for racing in Australia yet we are adopting the practices of Sydney which in my view will be costly.”

Mick Price, speaking from New Zealand, asked the question of where the trials will be held and laid the blame for the introduction of compulsory trialling squarely at the feet of the media.

“Where are they going to have all of these trials?” Price asked.

“Costs are going to go through the roof and for what? The owners are going to suffer with the increased costs.

“This is a media-driven introduction, everyone in the media complains when one wins without a trial and have driven everyone mad with this and it’s the owners that will suffer.

“This place will end up like Sydney because the owners won’t be able to stand it.”

Flemington trainers Mark Kavanagh and Matthew Ellerton were a little more circumspect about the decision.

“We have jump outs every Friday at Flemington, all they need to do is make them official and that will do,” Kavanagh said.

“As long as they hold trials at Flemington and we don’t have to travel to Cranbourne, it won’t be too bad,” Ellerton said.


Hayes and Price's opinions are interesting, considering everything they have whinged about is baseless  can't see how having to trial before your first start leads to smaller field sizes  at least Kavanagh and Ellerton seemed to have thought about it before opening their mouth 

What they are saying is true though isn't it ?

It will cost more for the owner.

And it will  provide nothing for the punter.

Trainers will just send them around like Hawkes does.

I'm a bit confused. Arakaan says it's for all unraced horse..which seems OK and only normal.

The article put up by someone else says it's for horses racing in Melbourne only. Is this two separate things?

Is this plan meant to stop country horses being taken to melbourne which have been hidden away in the country?

What is the aim?

Good point

If they have raced in the bush I don't think they have to trial in town.

And they don't have to trial to run in the bush.

Is that right?

Mantaray,

I am sure that Bruce Clark said on Saturday it is for Metro races only.  Maybe the idea is that rather than trial the horses, these horses will race first up in the bush then come to town?

Also, how much more would it cost to convert the Caulfield jump outs to trials?

One other thing, for those who know, what is the procedural difference between jump outs, trials and races?

I only ask because Melbourne seems to have a lot more problems at the barrier for 2 year old races than Sydney (although that may be a consequence of me being on course in Melbourne so I am more likely to notice), so maybe there is an advantage in trialling there?

Mantaray, the past few weeks of Melbourne Racing there have been some unraced winners that won impressively at their first start with no trial form. From the interviews with some trainers, the media (ie TVN) have found out there are jumpouts conducted at metro tracks which are apparently "better than the real thing" (trials at Cranbourne).  Presenters, such as Richie Callendar, have been crictical because 'the punter isn't being looked after' and we need to make sure the punter is being looked after (he is completely forgetting that owners may need looking after anyway) and ensure that form can be done.  As Authorized said, what is to stop the trainers sending them round for a track gallop at a trial before starting in the city.

A horse called Vital Gee won at $32 on NSW the other day having it's first start.
It had won a barrier trial over 900 in 53.94.
I thought it was overs and had a few bucks e/w
What price would it have been if it hadn't trialled?

Still not quite getting it.

Is the "must trial publicly" to be done in Melbourne, or anywhere approved very soon before it runs in Melbourne? What i mean is is this another extra trial, so that punters can get an idea of what the standard of the "new horse in town'' is, with stewards or whoever, looking on.

I can see why this might be good for punters. The trainer who has been getting his horse near a peak, after a poor race performance then goes to town and races at 50-1. It wins.

This is how it reads in the article where mick price is whinging. If you need to travel someplace for an extra trial this will cost country trainers money.

It seems clear thae totally unraced horses need a trial so that we at laeast know they aren't going to go crazy and bite jockeys/other horse. jump the fence..or other things, come race day.

Unless trial day has the atmosphere of raceday nobody can be sure how a horse might behave on raceday.

I assumed it is only for horses who have not had a race stat, and I believe they can trial anywhere, not just at a metro course.

I don't think that trainers will have to travel to trial, I would assume that Caulfield and Flemington will turn some of their jump outs into traditional trials.

I am fairly sure that it is only before metro race, when the horse is unraced that they must have trialled.  Now that this rule has been made, RVL must help trainers (and owners) in creating official trials on metro tracks. 

Mantaray, ideally you would be correct with unraced horses having to trial but as this move has been restricted to metro racing it seems that RVL caved to media pressure, where the punters have been 'wronged'.  Trial form is unreliable and instructions can be given to ensure the horse will appear to have trialled poorly.  There has to be some advantage for owners after all it's not the punters who pay the training fees but the owners.  Surely they can afford to have one good price when a good horse starts.