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Racehorse TALK
Racehorse TALK » Jockeys & Trainers » Topic: Everything Jockeys
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Author Topic: Everything Jockeys  (Read 18199 times)
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westie
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Original Post 2007-Jun-11, 08:55 PM

The Jockey's Room
Ode To The Jockeys, our sometimes Forgotten Heroes, risking their lives on a daily basis
to make this Sport Of Kings go around.
We hit the turn a runnin’, but a funny day for me,
In the last, at last, no trouble as we fought on doggedly,
We were not aboard the favourite, for the fave it went to Bill,
And the first and second winners too, for Bill he ain't no dill,
But we mighta had him here ‘n now, this race just might have been, 
The one to put our name in lights, the one to set the scene,
To have us at the forefront, when the whips are cracking sweet,
With the horseflesh striding boldly, and the jocks in pretty seat.

But at the furlong pole he joined us quick, oh Bill ya’ here again,
With your showy silks and your polished boots,
And your horse with flashing mane,
But then my little mare sees Bill as well,
And she digs it in real fine,
And she leaves ‘ol Bill to watch our seat,
As we lengthen for the line,
And when the presentation’s done at last,
We all depart with Bill our friend,
And we’ll see ‘ol Bill at next weeks meet, and do it all again.

    ("Horse and Rider", the Winning Combination)
and this from A.B. Patterson


"A racehorse, it should be said, is not a thing that can be whirled round like a top. A horse at full stretch covers some eighteen feet of ground: he weighs three-quarters of a ton and his velocity is fifty-three feet per second. The rider has not only to make up his mind in the eight part of an instant but he has to try to convert the horse to the same way of thinking. Imagine, then, a big field, say twenty horses, in a short distance race, each horse requiring eighteen feet of ground to act in and each frantically determined to get to the front. They cannot all get off well even if the start is perfect, as some jump into their stride quicker than others. Imagine, then, what are the calls on a jockey's judgement when he finds himself wedged in among this flying mass of horseflesh, horses all around him, hoofs thundering, leather steaming, the white rails flying past. Crouched on his horse's neck, he sees nothing but the waving mane of his own mount and the heels and tails of the horses just in front of him. Some animal in front drops back a little, leaving a slight opening, and the rider has to decide in the twinkling of an eye whether he will go for the opening. He must not pull his horse out of his stride, just the lightest touch on the rein and the least possible change of direction is all he can allow himself. If he misses the chance, something else will be into the gap. If he goes for it and gets blocked, he may be worse off than ever."

Have you something good, bad or indifferent to say this is the place.
« Last Edit: 2008-Nov-30, 08:32 PM by westie » Logged
 
Jim Pike
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2010-Jul-21, 09:38 PM

With the crack about Ray Murrihy I was being Facetious, my point was that what they all have in Common is that they are all strong proponents of the use of Spurs, Nash in particular has given spurs the credit for improving a lot of horses that he rides, and yet Murrihy is on record as saying categorically that they have no effect!! So obviously if Nash & Co continue to use them they must be slow learners according to Ray Murrihy, it follows a sure as night follows day! some trainers whose riders often wear spurs are Moody, Freedman and Waterhouse and the late Jack Denham, there are many more both Jockeys and Trainers too many to mention,
I know who I think isn't very "BRITE" and it isn't Nash and Co
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el zoro
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2010-Jul-21, 09:46 PM

The topic of spurs has been brought up previously. Why wouldn't all jockeys wear spurs if it was legal?
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Jim Pike
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2010-Jul-21, 10:29 PM

Because they listen to know it alls like Murrihy saying they do not work!! Bossy says they don't work, but then he never wears them so how would he know?? if you were going to ask someone what it was like to walk on the moon would you ask just any Astronaut or go directly to Neil Armstrong??
Of Course it is legal or no jockey would use them!!
I personally would like to see them banned they're cruel but if not at tell us when there is a "gear Change"
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Wyatt Earp
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2010-Jul-22, 10:26 AM

Personally, I like the shiney ones with the pointy wheels that spin round and round.
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2010-Jul-22, 01:18 PM

Because they listen to know it alls like Murrihy saying they do not work!! Bossy says they don't work, but then he never wears them so how would he know?? if you were going to ask someone what it was like to walk on the moon would you ask just any Astronaut or go directly to Neil Armstrong??
Of Course it is legal or no jockey would use them!!
I personally would like to see them banned they're cruel but if not at tell us when there is a "gear Change"


Myself and another forumite who seems to have given us the flick have been calling for them to be part of the gear changes for a while now.
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MagiC~*
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2010-Jul-22, 02:37 PM

Myself and another forumite who seems to have given us the flick have been calling for them to be part of the gear changes for a while now.


Would be a tricky situation to keep track of Matt, and not sure how you would go about it.

A lot of the times, jockey's wear spurs, with out the trainers say so.

See the thing is, it is a jockey gear change, and not a trainer gear change.

Kelvin Wharton is one who wears them a lot here in Qld, and has a lot of success with them.

A lot of jockeys, can't wear spurs, as they ride to short, for them to be of any use.

So probably the best thing to do, is to recognise what jockeys wear them, and which jockeys do not.
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Jim Pike
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2010-Jul-22, 06:28 PM

The thing is I have seen Jockeys like Larry Cassidy, Darren Beadman, Chris Munce etc wear them, all with success(Never seen these jocks beaten when they wear them) they don't wear them very often so how do you know when they are going to have them on?
Allinghi wore them when she won the Newmarket but was beaten either side of the Newmarket(Lightning I think and T J Smith) she didn't wear them in her beaten runs!
if a Jockey wears them without the trainers permission then he is a pretty poor trainer! I have never seen a Jockey wear them when riding for Bart Cummings! I remember Larry Cassidy using Spurs on 2 of John Hawkes's when he was stable rider, he was sacked shortly after, not saying that was the reason they parted company it probably just a coincidence but have never seen a Hawkes horse with a Jockey wearing Spurs either
Shocking had them on when he won the Hotham prior to his cup win, I backed him and remember the Caller saying he was badly blocked for a run and would have to spring quick if the run came, that was never in doubt for me when Rodd dug him with the spurs! not sure if he had them on in the Cup though that is not the type of race you would usually wear them!
Useless information I know but just illustrating the point, I can't believe that Murrihy can say they do not work when all the evidence says they do!
mind you they do not work in all situations you have to know when they will work! or know who knows when they will work!
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richo
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2010-Jul-22, 07:00 PM

most jocks ride to short for them to be effective ride a bit longer and they are.
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Jim Pike
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2010-Jul-22, 07:24 PM

The Jockeys especially Munce for example are not noted for riding long!
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richo
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2010-Jul-22, 07:56 PM

not many of them are built like chris.
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Mark
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2010-Jul-22, 07:59 PM

Munce - is he legally a dwarf or..?
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Jim Pike
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2010-Jul-23, 01:07 AM

Richo you stated that jockeys who ride short couldn't wear spurs because they would be ineffective, I only pointed out Chris Munce to prove how long you ride is irrelevant,
I gather you are a horse trainer? I was talking to a famous trainer once many years ago and I mentioned another equally famous training contemporary and he said re his contemporaries horse and I quote " that is not the way to train a Horse" now if you look at horses trained by these 2 trainers their horses looked noting alike and yet their results were stunningly similar over a long period of time,
My point is that no matter how you do something there is always another way of doing it, you cannot say someone is wrong because you do not agree, like believing in God for example, I don't know how anyone can believe in God like it is an indisputable fact but conversely I do not  see how anyone can say there is No God for the same reason, if you do not know (and in this instance no one does) you have to sit on the fence until there is proof either way! To say Spurs are ineffective you are making a statement of fact that you do not have any evidence at all to back up your statement, I have seen them work when jockeys ride short,(and I use Munce as an example) that is a fact!
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2010-Jul-23, 03:34 PM

I can not imagine spurs slamming into my ribs being a pleasant massage.
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Big Wheel
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2010-Jul-25, 12:34 PM

Richo you stated that jockeys who ride short couldn't wear spurs because they would be ineffective, I only pointed out Chris Munce to prove how long you ride is irrelevant,
I gather you are a horse trainer? I was talking to a famous trainer once many years ago and I mentioned another equally famous training contemporary and he said re his contemporaries horse and I quote " that is not the way to train a Horse" now if you look at horses trained by these 2 trainers their horses looked noting alike and yet their results were stunningly similar over a long period of time,
My point is that no matter how you do something there is always another way of doing it, you cannot say someone is wrong because you do not agree, like believing in God for example, I don't know how anyone can believe in God like it is an indisputable fact but conversely I do not  see how anyone can say there is No God for the same reason, if you do not know (and in this instance no one does) you have to sit on the fence until there is proof either way! To say Spurs are ineffective you are making a statement of fact that you do not have any evidence at all to back up your statement, I have seen them work when jockeys ride short,(and I use Munce as an example) that is a fact!

Bullshit, spurs are useless if the jock is riding Short, Because the Boot is level with the packing and is not touching
the horses ribs etc, Only Benefit is if the jock pulls his feet out of the irons behind the Barriers and boots it in the Guts!
Now THAT'S a Fact JP
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Jim Pike
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2010-Jul-26, 02:02 AM

mate big wheel they do work you do not have a clue, Oliver doesn't ride long and neither does Newitt or Symonds, Munce rides very short, you are one of the Murrihy Know it alls, I would rather put my faith in the Top Jockeys who use them, somehow I think they would have a much better idea than you and me, they think they work or they wouldn't bother using them!!
In saying that I do agree with you as far as the use of them behind the barriers (and in trackwork)goes,
Now I have stated it before and I will say it again!!
I am totally against the use of spurs and think they should be totally banned and treated like being caught with an electrical device, they are cruel no matter what else you think about them! 
I just think if a Jockey is going to put them on on some horses and off on others we should be informed when they cahenge, there should be Jockey gear Changes
another "gear Change" that I would like to see listed is what vet was treating each trainers horses, I think this would be a revelation
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