Peter Mair
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 Original Post 2009-Jun-20, 06:47 AM
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NEW WHIP RULES: THE ECONOMICS OF CRIME
As reported in The Australian this morning,
Using Blake Shinn's ride in last year's Melbourne Cup on Viewed as an example, Bailey said a repeat of that level of whip use in the $5million race would certainly see the winning rider forfeit the riding fee, plus the maximum fine of $75,000 -- equating to half the 5 per cent commission of prizemoney.
Quite apart from the contradiction of last-year-good this-year-bad, it is a bit ambitious to think that the prospect of penalties (short of disqualification) will overwhelm a jockeys determination to win the Cup -- apart from anything else, the winning connections would be honor bound to cover the jockey's exes from the $3.5 million just trousered.
In short when $3.5 million overwhelms $225,000 by a factor of 15 -- the prospective penalties are an invitation to go for broke.
Loking back at some of the most memorable 'win at all costs' rides over the past 25 years, and attendant exemplary fines and suspensions, does anyone believe that the connections did not make good the situation for the jockey on a promise? In this vein, one of the most sensible and effective stewards decisions ever made was the relegation of Choisir in a Melbourne carnival race.
There is little point penalizing jockeys alone -- and no chance of a horse winning unfairly being disqualified.
Whatever else is done, it is past time for jockeys to subscribe to a code of practice -- including an annually signed undertaking to not use a whip excessively.
Any intention to apply the rule on a numbers basis will stand in ignorance of the difference betwen Des Lake and Peter Cook (but even PC went for broke in a Cup)
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shaun
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2009-Aug-01, 06:45 PM
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I think he was referring to Hopwood in an earlier race. I don't think Neve hit Street Singer that often, if you watch it is motion more that hitting.
yeah,it was in the first,Valance or something like that,an apprentice i think as well.  |
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OldLarsy
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2009-Aug-01, 06:49 PM
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Can excessive or incorrect whip use be used as grounds for a protest?
If not, why not?
thats a good point! i will have a look and find out
Did you find out, Granstand? |
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Sporty
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2009-Aug-01, 06:53 PM
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I think he was referring to Hopwood in an earlier race. I don't think Neve hit Street Singer that often, if you watch it is motion more that hitting.
Nah over 20 times inside the furlong i counted... she a left handed and all...i could see it well on my 63 inch .Lcd...  |
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manikato1
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2009-Aug-01, 06:56 PM
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Nah over 20 times inside the furlong i counted... she a left handed and all...i could see it well on my 63 inch .Lcd... Were you counting how many times she "hit" the horse, or how many times she swung the whip? because they are not the same thing. A number of jockeys in the last few years have become adept at using a whip motion without actually hitting the horse every time (C Williams is a classic example). I think she swung the whip a lot, but didn't hit the horse every time. Could be wrong though, I have only seen it once. |
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Sporty
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2009-Aug-01, 07:04 PM
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Were you counting how many times she "hit" the horse, or how many times she swung the whip? because they are not the same thing. A number of jockeys in the last few years have become adept at using a whip motion without actually hitting the horse every time (C Williams is a classic example). I think she swung the whip a lot, but didn't hit the horse every time. Could be wrong though, I have only seen it once.
Manikato she was going for it and wouldn't let up....Apprentice she is .. .... |
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grandstand
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2009-Aug-01, 07:23 PM
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i am still trying to find out
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grandstand
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2009-Aug-01, 07:32 PM
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Matty just said that you can not protest! they set that in stone from the start. other wise there would be protests in every race for all placings , and also you may not receive a fine the day of the races they can tell you a week later if you have exceeded your limits after they thouroughly examine all tapes
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Authorized
Steward
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2009-Aug-01, 07:52 PM
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That is bullshit, if ya jockey obeys the rules and get beata a lip by a cheat.
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grandstand
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2009-Aug-01, 07:56 PM
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yeah i cant really understand it ... the jock gets penalised but the horse can still win? i had all these questions before the rule came into play, i think they had the interest of the horse in mind but have changed the way it all works, is there a trial period or is this it?
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OldLarsy
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2009-Aug-01, 08:00 PM
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If the horse beaten a lip had have had an extra crack with the whip it probably wins.
It's going to be very hard to police, and also a very big chance of oncourse demonstrations by disgruntled punters.
How bout anyone found guilty is banned from carrying a whip into a race, let's see how many rides they pick up.
Thew whole thing is actually a bog joke, the whips don't hurt the horses, if they did, they'd resent it and pull up.
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Mark
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2009-Aug-01, 08:05 PM
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If the horse beaten a lip had have had an extra crack with the whip it probably wins.
It's going to be very hard to police, and also a very big chance of oncourse demonstrations by disgruntled punters.
How bout anyone found guilty is banned from carrying a whip into a race, let's see how many rides they pick up.
Thew whole thing is actually a bog joke, the whips don't hurt the horses, if they did, they'd resent it and pull up.
Yep. Look they hurt em a little I reckon but only a little sting, and the small pain would go away fast I'm sure. I too cant believe theyre doing this but anyway... Jocks arent powerful blokes (sorry Sporty) and horses are thick skinned... A jock I once knew told me that a big strong colt would sometimes laugh at him with a proper whip and say that all ya got? So then he'd have to give him a good one... Incidently he reckoned it worked most of the time... Why blokes like Dittman used to be so aggressive at times, because at certain times ya just need to, there are so many different situations.. |
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Sporty
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2009-Aug-01, 08:34 PM
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Yep. Look they hurt em a little I reckon but only a little sting, and the small pain would go away fast I'm sure. I too cant believe theyre doing this but anyway...
Jocks arent powerful blokes (sorry Sporty) and horses are thick skinned... A jock I once knew told me that a big strong colt would sometimes laugh at him with a proper whip and say that all ya got? So then he'd have to give him a good one... Incidently he reckoned it worked most of the time... Why blokes like Dittman used to be so aggressive at times, because at certain times ya just need to, there are so many different situations..
Jocks aint powerful blokes....  ....hey marky thats ok mate....hey mate if ya look at me today mate you wouldn't believe i was a jock ok...not that im fat or obese or anything ..its just im quite tall today ..and i do alot of weights work and swimming etc etc...anyway getting back to the story us jocks going back years ago...at our local tavern one nite held these arm westling comps ..it went on for weeks mate....mate you should of seen these big mother f***kers that would turn up....and the arms on these bloke....but hey all jokes aside they couldn't beat us...it wasn't just hand on hand...it was a bar we had to hold....and we would hold these blokes all nite...untill they where rooted...think about it mark ...jocks go out on the track every morning mate and have to hold these half of ton horse mate on the track...and the secret was in the wrist mate.... . |
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Mark
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2009-Aug-01, 08:38 PM
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Yep and every jock I've ever known (although not many) was a funny  like you |
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Mark
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2009-Aug-01, 08:44 PM
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And Sporty I'm sure you were a skinny little stick WHILST you were a jock. |
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chuggers
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2009-Aug-01, 08:46 PM
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Yep and every jock I've ever known (although not many) was a funny like you d I think that Funny that you say that---my experience was mostly the same--but I know Justin Sheehan------he is a nice enough bloke---unfortunately---had weight problems---and I think---that has created pressures |
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