InTheKnow
Group 2 user 400
 Offline
Posts : 2645
|
|
|
 Original Post 2009-Sep-02, 09:23 AM
|
UK Expert Calls For Artificial Insemination
Professor Twink Allen, the former director of Britain's Thoroughbred Breeders Association Equine Fertility Unit in Newmarket, "has stepped up his campaign for the abolition of the rule banning artificial insemination by hitting out at the big stallion owners" & "claiming they are deliberately standing in the way of what he regards as progress", reported racingpost.com. Allen told the International Breeders Seminar at Somerset West near Cape Town in South Africa: "The stallion owners are frightened of change & a few financially powerful ones simply refuse to discuss AI - and it's the numerically larger but financially smaller mare owners who suffer. A handful of wealthy stallion owners are afraid of it & frightened by a change in the status quo. In their minds, they see their stud farms would diminish or disappear." Allen called the AI ban "antiquated" & declared: "We have gone on too long with this attitude of we are not going to talk about it, go away. We must discuss it. AI reduces the risk of venereal disease, mating injuries & uterine infections. It also cuts down on the amount of labour required. People say that it will lead to the most popular stallions inseminating huge numbers of mares, but that's not going to happen. In the American Standard-bred (trotting) world, where they do use AI, the numbers of mares-per-stallion have actually come down, because breeders don't want to flood the market with too many yearlings by the same sire. The same would happen in the thoroughbred world." (Sep 2)
Allen To Address US Breeders On AI Debate
Professor Twink Allen "intends spreading" his campaign against the AI-ban "around the globe" noted racingpost.com. "In January he will address a large group of American breeders in Kentucky". Allen "is also in touch with Bruce McHugh, the former Sydney Turf Club chairman who is taking the Australian Stud Book to court"; McHugh maintains the anti-AI rule "is a restraint of trade & therefore illegal". Allen summed up: "It is now high time the existing ban on the use of AI & ET in thoroughbred breeding be reviewed in light of the very obvious potential health, welfare & economic benefits." (Sep 2)
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
| |
chuggers
Steward
Group 1 user 449
Offline
Posts : 6535
|
|
|
2011-Sep-06, 09:20 PM
|
I agree totally for the pro Artifical Insemination case---shite--it is done with humans in certain cases---why not horses---all the cost cutting measures and ongoing prices to purchasers would be a bonus.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Peter Mair
Group 2 user 326
Offline
Posts : 1505
|
|
|
2011-Sep-06, 09:20 PM
|
The issues here are hardly complex -- DNA-tested, well-bred horses will be cheaper with AI
The debate presumably turns on whether those now benefiting from the higher prices paid for fewer, naturally-covered, horses have a right to prevent those who might supply more of the better bred horses at cheaper prices by using AI.
This one cannot be hard to decide.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Shogun Lodge
Group3 user 352
Offline
Posts : 807
|
|
|
2011-Sep-06, 09:21 PM
|
Bubbasmith/Administrators, there is already a long thread on this in Breeding section.
How do you amalgamate / reformat?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Bubbasmith
Group 2 user 197
Offline
Posts : 2296
|
|
|
2011-Sep-06, 09:25 PM
|
Shogun
I tried to find the :Breeding " section on forum, but where is it ?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Authorized
Steward
Group 1 user 18
Offline
Posts : 19693
|
|
|
2011-Sep-06, 09:50 PM
|
Shogun
I tried to find the :Breeding " section on forum, but where is it ?
It is disgracefully not on the main menu. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Shogun Lodge
Group3 user 352
Offline
Posts : 807
|
|
|
2011-Sep-07, 09:43 AM
|
For some reason, the only way to get to breeding section is via the 'home' button....when you are on any other board it is not listed in the optional line that contains links to other parts of site. Software design...not sure if it can or will be fixed, but I've also been disappointed the 'pathway' to Breeding is compromised/limited.
Can one of the administrators move this whole thread to Racing Talk Australia please? How do I request this?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Bubbasmith
Group 2 user 197
Offline
Posts : 2296
|
|
|
2011-Sep-07, 08:58 PM
|
Shogun, Thanks for that advice I found it from the "home page "
Bubba
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
PoisonPen7
Steward
Group 1 user 55
Offline
Posts : 6317
|
|
|
2011-Sep-08, 12:22 AM
|
Can one of the administrators move this whole thread to Racing Talk Australia please? How do I request this?
Moved...I think. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Shogun Lodge
Group3 user 352
Offline
Posts : 807
|
|
|
2011-Sep-08, 09:57 AM
|
Thanks guys...very interesting to me that most here are with the litigant Bruce. I am a breeder, very small time, but it pisses me off that TBA are arguing against, on behalf of the top few biggies. Small breeders never consulted as usual. This case is a ripper, and will be so interesting to follow... Very interesting the comments from top trainers and players....seeming to line up with the big players...why doesn't that suprise?  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Authorized
Steward
Group 1 user 18
Offline
Posts : 19693
|
|
|
2011-Sep-08, 01:03 PM
|
I would imagine middle road trainers who make their money from selling their horses to Asian countries may not be in favor of AI. Asian racing countries who try to attract the big European horses for their premier races would not be interested in AI bred horses as that could stop European participation.
Be interesting to see the effects a positive result for Mchugh has over all.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Shogun Lodge
Group3 user 352
Offline
Posts : 807
|
|
|
2011-Sep-09, 09:31 AM
|
Gee thats a big leap, other countries may not freak out anyways...and if they did they are being bloody idiots.
Given your homebred has one in a million chance of (needing) to race overseas, I reckon many will take their chances, as long as they can sell and race in Oz.
If the Aus industry acts to segregate (if Bruce wins and we breed with AI) then they are as stupid as well....a horse is a horse ia a horse!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jim Pike
Group 2 user 561
Offline
Alias: Henry
Posts : 4356
|
|
|
2011-Sep-09, 09:36 AM
|
Does anyone think that AI isn't used in the Thoroughbred industry??
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
pegasyber
Group3 user 909
Offline
Alias: comprate
Posts : 585
|
|
|
2011-Sep-09, 02:50 PM
|
From a google of Tesio+"Natural Insemination" (The Pure Blood - An Animal of Experimentation). This book was reissued in 2005 in an English translation titled Tesio: In His Own Words. Federico Tesio remains one of the most important and influential breeders of Thoroughbreds in the history of horse racing. Yes, in the history of horse racing - to date!
Tesio had degrees in science and architecture. He did not have access to the genetic information we now have. He didn't need it. Thoroughbred race horses are not bred by AI. But they used to be. Tesio studied and wrote about AI in his book. In his study of thousands of AI breedings, Tesio confirmed that not one single horse ever won a significant race. Nor did their offspring. He is unable to explain this outcome. His supposition is that the act of breeding, naturally, is accompanied by forces of nature that we do not understand. Part of the "spirit", or "life force" or "nervous energy" is transmitted from sire to dam to conception to offspring. AI is second-rate, unpredictable and irresponsible. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jim Pike
Group 2 user 561
Offline
Alias: Henry
Posts : 4356
|
|
|
2011-Sep-10, 09:39 PM
|
Peg what is the name of the Tesio book?? I am fairly sure you will find that it wasn't in fact actually written by the man himself, it is a book on what his theories were believed to be but written by someone else, Tesio was a lot like Jack Denham and slept with a gag so he didn't talk in his sleep, he was by far the most successful breeder in history but he took all his secrets to the grave, I am pretty sure he had a partner who may have had a hand in writing the "Tessio Book" His Wife may have said she knew what his secrets were but no one has ever been able to Duplicate what Tessio achieved, why?? answer because he told no one how he did it!
If a large percentage of todays horses were the result of AI then it stands to reason a lot would win Group Ones, ( of course they had to re invent the wheel, ie change the face of Group Ones to accommodate the weaker horses they are breeding) just another reason why the breed is no where near as sound today as it was 50 years ago,
In Tesio's day a stallion would be lucky to serve 40/50 mares each season/year now they serve upwards 200/300 twice a year!!
It begs the answer to 2 questions
1, Tell me how they do it today by letting nature take its course??
2, Tell me why Tessio stallions couldn't do it?
Remember the old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Shogun Lodge
Group3 user 352
Offline
Posts : 807
|
|
|
2011-Sep-11, 06:14 PM
|
Are you sayin our mares aren't actually 'mounted' or 'served' as such Jim? So we send our mares 500 miles only to be AI'd at an expensive location? You need to get in touch with the litigants and take the stand!   |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
