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Racehorse TALK



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Author Topic: LEGLESS LAYS  (Read 2790 times)
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Bundy
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Original Post 2010-Jan-20, 10:42 AM

We see a couple in most races, tailed off to billy-oh, jockey not even looking interested.
They are the ones we ask "why the censored is this one even being fed, let alone entered in a race?"

Ducks eggs all over the shop from it's last 4 or 5 starts or more, beaten margins => 10 lengths....simply horrible.

So, would you LAY these no hopers, these chaff and oygen wasters?....

I have been taking close note on Betty of late as to what price I would have had to offer to get a match to LAY these shoe wasters....surprisingly, to me anyway, some could have been layed for as "little" as 100's....when they are generally 500/1000 to no censored ing chance chin.....others, 200/1 out to 500/1 would have to be on offer, but is 200/1 even to much to offer for such pachodermic crawlers?

Sure, I know, I know, really I do, I know what you are thinking....YOU ONLY NeED ONE TO WIN TO FEKK YOU FOR LIFE!!!!.....but,

Just how often would one of these snails get you?......1 in 200?.....1 in 500?....1 in a 1000?..... chin

So, lets just say, for the sake of discussion, I lay one at 200/1, and it does the unthinkable mad.....I then need the next couple hundred to do the right thing to get me back to even.... .....sheesh...sounds like a long haul...

Would it be worth the effort?....the time?....the dollars?


Of course, we could always employ a few parameters, like laying to a maximum of 200/1, but BACKING it should
we then be able to obtain greater than 200/1 (insurance)...

eg we LAY at 200/1 for 10 bucks...we then BACK at 400/1 for 5 bucks...result GREEN...we like GREEN biggrin

Some of the issues I would address before declaring it legless would be:

1. Last 4-5 runs beaten margin must be >= 7 lengths

2. Finishing position no closer than 5th

3. Track conditions of those runs to be taken into consideration.

4. Must not have a "name" jockey on board.

5. Must not be from a "name" stable.

6. Must not be first up from a spell.

7. Race strength...here I would view the race to see how many of the other runners have "good" chances...that is, is it an open race with many "good" chances....thus giving our chaff burner even less chance of an upset....should the entire race look like a "whoever steps up first - wins" event then perhaps a price cap should be placed on our crippled snail?

8. TAB price...wary if under 60/1

9. Stewards reports important

Okay, todays example..Ipswich race 1...TAB numbers 7 and 8...Mr J Taylor being on number 8 would need to be looked at....but these 2 runners are the ones I am talking about, LEGLESS!!! shy

Okay, so what are your thoughts?.....is it a "no go" zone for you?....a "possible" go zone?....appreciate your thoughts.....I think
« Last Edit: 2010-Jan-20, 04:44 PM by Bundy » Logged
 
Bundy
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2010-Jan-20, 01:49 PM

What kinda price range for those 19 winners Max?
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Skybeau
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2010-Jan-20, 01:55 PM

As long as they don't average $ 113 for the win, you should still make money.
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Max Manewer
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2010-Jan-20, 01:57 PM

50/1 to 100/1 SP, lost about 21 % at best tote, you'd have lost laying that bracket at the odds you'd have to give. Looking at something different, for the last 3 months again, all 50/1 and up, where I had a negative indication for either jockey or trainer, 2 winners from 612 runners,which is good laying, but for a positive indicator, 13 wins from 1315, which would have lost laying.
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Max Manewer
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2010-Jan-20, 02:11 PM

Going back to 6 months of minus rated jockeys or trainers, 50/1 or greater, there were 2224 starters, 8 winners ( 6x50/1, 2x60/1, 1x80/1 ). That should easily have won laying at an average of $200, even. Those figures are not back-fitted.
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Bundy
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2010-Jan-20, 02:14 PM

Could be an edge there... chin...hmmmm..okay, someone ship me 2k and I'll give it a whirl biggrin
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Max Manewer
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2010-Jan-20, 02:16 PM

I liked the 599 for 0 winners method.  chin
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Bundy
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2010-Jan-20, 02:19 PM

Yes, hard not to like that result.

I would be very wary of Millicent in this coming race at Geelong (race 5). It may be one that I would put a maximum lay price on (maybe 50/1). Or just leave it alltogether...anyway..we are just watching eh lol

It runs 4th or 5th ...was matched from 75 to 150 for $368 total.
« Last Edit: 2010-Jan-20, 02:24 PM by Bundy » Logged
Bundy
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2010-Jan-20, 02:42 PM

Current rules for: LayIdentifier

FORM RULES:
include if FinPos last run between 5 and 24
include if FinPos 2 runs ago between 5 and 24
include if FinPos 3 runs ago between 5 and 24
exclude if FinPos 4 runs ago between 1 and 4
exclude if FinPos 5 runs ago between 1 and 4
include if Margin last run between 6.8 and 99
include if Margin 2 runs ago between 6.8 and 99
include if Margin 3 runs ago between 6.8 and 99

RATING RULES:
Exclude if SP price between 1 and 40

STATS RULES:
include if Career Starts between 4 and 100


Result: 520 for 1 winner @ 66/1 SP

Figures for this racing season
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Max Manewer
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2010-Jan-20, 02:45 PM

I will run a little test of horses where I have a minus for both trainer and jockey. I can go back a couple of years on it, I just realised there is no back-fitting issue as the long odds weren't used in calculations.
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Max Manewer
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2010-Jan-20, 03:51 PM

I will run a little test of horses where I have a minus for both trainer and jockey. I can go back a couple of years on it, I just realised there is no back-fitting issue as the long odds weren't used in calculations.


1387 qualifying lays; (50/1 up ) 5 winners, av SP approx 80/1. Thought it might do better.
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Bundy
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2010-Jan-20, 03:56 PM

Prolly still a winner though.....
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Max Manewer
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2010-Jan-20, 04:05 PM

More indicative, a negative trainer or jockey, rather than both together, 38 wins from 9446 runs. Averaging about 80/1 again. Lay at average $200 and you're doing good. I may have to have a look at what the average betfair odds for these is.
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Bundy
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2010-Jan-20, 04:11 PM

Absofekkinlootly beer
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jordmike
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2010-Jan-20, 06:12 PM

Bundy,

I threw in Beaten Margin (last 4), Finishing Position (last 4) and Price into this database I have and came up with the following (attached).....

Stats are from the start of 2000 to Sept 2009.

Cheers



[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]
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Bundy
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2010-Jan-21, 11:25 AM

Bundy,

I threw in Beaten Margin (last 4), Finishing Position (last 4) and Price into this database I have and came up with the following (attached).....

Stats are from the start of 2000 to Sept 2009.

Cheers




Cheers m8, I shall have a look through it
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