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Author Topic: LEGLESS LAYS  (Read 2789 times)
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Bundy
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Original Post 2010-Jan-20, 10:42 AM

We see a couple in most races, tailed off to billy-oh, jockey not even looking interested.
They are the ones we ask "why the censored is this one even being fed, let alone entered in a race?"

Ducks eggs all over the shop from it's last 4 or 5 starts or more, beaten margins => 10 lengths....simply horrible.

So, would you LAY these no hopers, these chaff and oygen wasters?....

I have been taking close note on Betty of late as to what price I would have had to offer to get a match to LAY these shoe wasters....surprisingly, to me anyway, some could have been layed for as "little" as 100's....when they are generally 500/1000 to no censored ing chance chin.....others, 200/1 out to 500/1 would have to be on offer, but is 200/1 even to much to offer for such pachodermic crawlers?

Sure, I know, I know, really I do, I know what you are thinking....YOU ONLY NeED ONE TO WIN TO FEKK YOU FOR LIFE!!!!.....but,

Just how often would one of these snails get you?......1 in 200?.....1 in 500?....1 in a 1000?..... chin

So, lets just say, for the sake of discussion, I lay one at 200/1, and it does the unthinkable mad.....I then need the next couple hundred to do the right thing to get me back to even.... .....sheesh...sounds like a long haul...

Would it be worth the effort?....the time?....the dollars?


Of course, we could always employ a few parameters, like laying to a maximum of 200/1, but BACKING it should
we then be able to obtain greater than 200/1 (insurance)...

eg we LAY at 200/1 for 10 bucks...we then BACK at 400/1 for 5 bucks...result GREEN...we like GREEN biggrin

Some of the issues I would address before declaring it legless would be:

1. Last 4-5 runs beaten margin must be >= 7 lengths

2. Finishing position no closer than 5th

3. Track conditions of those runs to be taken into consideration.

4. Must not have a "name" jockey on board.

5. Must not be from a "name" stable.

6. Must not be first up from a spell.

7. Race strength...here I would view the race to see how many of the other runners have "good" chances...that is, is it an open race with many "good" chances....thus giving our chaff burner even less chance of an upset....should the entire race look like a "whoever steps up first - wins" event then perhaps a price cap should be placed on our crippled snail?

8. TAB price...wary if under 60/1

9. Stewards reports important

Okay, todays example..Ipswich race 1...TAB numbers 7 and 8...Mr J Taylor being on number 8 would need to be looked at....but these 2 runners are the ones I am talking about, LEGLESS!!! shy

Okay, so what are your thoughts?.....is it a "no go" zone for you?....a "possible" go zone?....appreciate your thoughts.....I think
« Last Edit: 2010-Jan-20, 04:44 PM by Bundy » Logged
 
Bundy
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2010-Jan-21, 11:34 AM

jordmike, what source are the prices from m8?.....and I cannot see results?
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Bundy
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2010-Jan-21, 11:53 AM

Track RNo TAB Name
Gosford 2 4 Triple Down
Townsville 5 10 Mr Marmay
Seymour 7 8 Summer Sapphire
Gosford 7 13 Chantilly Express
Gosford 1 9
Gosford 1 8
Gosford 2 4
Gosford 3 6
Gosford 4 8
Seymour 1 4
Seymour 3 5
Seymour 4 8
Seymour 4 6
Seymour 5 11
Townsville 1 9
Townsville 4 13
Townsville 4 12
Townsville 5 13
Townsville 8 5

The ones with the name shown are those identified by the LayIdentifier, those not named are ones that I have identified as possibly Legless but would require stricter examination and possibly lesser lay price.

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dubbledee
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2010-Jan-21, 12:03 PM

Bundy

I have to firstly say I'm horrified when I see someone looking at a "system" such as this.  Why oh why would you want to expose yourself to significant risk with the prospect of winning just a few bucks?

Watching a race where I've layed a horse to lose a few hundred against a profit a very little would not be something I'd enjoy.  Laying roughies on Betfair will take you into shark-infested waters.

And be assured, these "legless" horses DO win.  I accept that you've built in all sorts of factors which intuitively reduce your risk to close to nil.  But that doesn't ELIMINATE the risk.

I've stated several times that I don't believe there are short-cuts to winning on the punt.  I'm referring to "automatic" selection systems, etc.  But I believe you can win from working hard and betting tough.

Something you might like to look at is backing 2 or 3 fancied horses the place (in the same race).  They could be backed level-stake, or in proportion to their prices. I think it's called making a Dutch Book??  In most cases you will be facing a small loss if just one of the 3 (say) get in, but there'll be a nice profit if 2 or 3 get in.  Of course, there'll be times when all 3 get beaten, and that will hurt.  However, I'd predict that, with discipline, you're less exposed than what you're proposing, and more likely to make a profit over time.
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Bundy
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2010-Jan-21, 12:17 PM

Agree entirely DD....But I have always been one to look outside the square so to speak, just for the exercise.

Whilst I would not enjoy swimming with sharks I do occasionaly like to tease them a bit. biggrin

Murphy's Law alone, in this exercise, would ensure that one would win at 200/1 early in the piece thus reducing me to shark burley....still, I like researching these things, ya never know lol ...nothing ventured nothing gained chin

Now, that one in the first at Seymour, have a look at what was matched on this snail:



1.2 36
40 10
44 5
46 7
50 7
55 3
70 4
150 32
160 15
210 8
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Bundy
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2010-Jan-21, 12:21 PM

DD, again, thanks for taking the time to reply and voice your ideas Thumb Up

Dutch Betting is something I do quite regularly, there are quite a few free programs on the net to enable Dutch Betting to be done accurately and swiftly.
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Bundy
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2010-Jan-21, 12:53 PM

Triple Down specked strongly on Betty. Matched from 20 to 46 for a total of $1921.......
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jordmike
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2010-Jan-21, 01:25 PM

The results are for all Major Metro tracks and prices are from Unitab.

I have attached another excel SS with win results.

Their were 1214 selections for 2 winners priced at $86.60 and $72.50.

So, if you bump the tote odds up to $100 then you have a 100% strike rate with 833 successful lays (back fitting I know). At $10 profit per lay that's $8330 profit. Now if we say it takes roughly ten minutes per lay (identifying lays, watching markets etc) then you would have an hourly rate of $60 

For what its worth I agree with DD.




[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]
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Max Manewer
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2010-Jan-21, 01:34 PM

And be assured, these "legless" horses DO win.  I accept that you've built in all sorts of factors which intuitively reduce your risk to close to nil.  But that doesn't ELIMINATE the risk.

It is a matter of managing the risk by betting with the odds in your favour, which seems feasible on figures. If the thought of laying a $100 winner is too terrible to contemplate, then you are best to leave it alone.
 
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Max Manewer
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2010-Jan-21, 02:38 PM

I've stated several times that I don't believe there are short-cuts to winning on the punt.  I'm referring to I've stated several times that I don't believe there are short-cuts to winning on the punt.  I'm referring to "automatic" selection systems, etc.  But I believe you can win from working hard , etc.

Doesn't happen ? Can't be done ? I must be about to wake up from this dream.  lol   I certainly agree you have to put in the work, but not that automatic selection  cannot work.
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JWesleyHarding
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2010-Jan-21, 02:41 PM

Max

Now I know what you meant by

"I'm not a form man"

a few days ago.
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Max Manewer
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2010-Jan-21, 03:51 PM

Princess Poppy wins at Bunbury, $230 on offer betfair at the end.  wacko

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Falcon
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2010-Jan-21, 06:20 PM

Blimey.....interesting subject title
though you'd had one too many drinks and ended up somewhere you shouldn't have
beer
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Max Manewer
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2010-Jan-21, 06:28 PM

No-one here would ever have taken advantage of an inebriated woman.  unsure
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Bundy
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2010-Jan-21, 06:29 PM

Blimey.....interesting subject title
though you'd had one too many drinks and ended up somewhere you shouldn't have
beer


  lol .I should be so lucky Sad tears
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Bundy
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2010-Jan-22, 09:48 AM

New Page
Track RNo TAB Name
Canberra 1 3 Dieutoo
Muswellbrook 1 14 Vain Miss
Muswellbrook 1 15 Nells Promise
Muswellbrook 2 12 Boy In Blue
Sunshine Cush 1 2 Seebohm
Sunshine Cush 1 6 Indya Monsoon
Muswellbrook 3 11 Shivakamini
Sunshine Cush 2 7 Gods Rival
Muswellbrook 4 10 Girlwithaltitude
Sunshine Cush 6 11 Conqualo
Port Lincoln 5 9 Alyffia
Port Lincoln 5 10 Blevoki
Port Lincoln 6 10 Kates Girl
Port Lincoln 7 1 Beau Talaq
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