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Author Topic: BIG6, BEST 6? – ASK PUNTERS, NOT TABCORP  (Read 2648 times)
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Peter Mair
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Original Post 2010-Jan-31, 10:53 PM



BIG6, BEST 6? – ASK PUNTERS, NOT TABCORP

David Attenborough, the new head of Tabcorp’s wagering division, has the job ahead in ensuring appropriate control of the quality of the product being retailed to TAB punters.

Tabcorp needs to get the message that most punters do not want it to  continue as a provider of tote betting facilities because it panders to the insider industry ‘takers’ and does not protect its customers, TAB punters, the industry ‘givers’.

A classic example of an ingrained objectionable culture is Tabcorp’s answer, published yesterday at racenet.com.au, to a question about the selection of the races comprising the Big6 – especially in NSW.

As reported on Racenet -- Tabcorps external communications manager, Nicholas Tzaferis, correctly said that, usually, the B6 races in NSW are ‘the last three in Melbourne and last three in Sydney’: questionably, he went on to say – “these six races are generally the best in the country and there is usually good exposed form for punters”.

In my view, this latter remark is absolute nonsense – on the contrary, the last-race in both Sydney and Melbourne on Saturdays is typically a restricted-class race delivering an outcome consistent with raffle-racing when assessed in relation to the form ‘exposed’ in the form guides published in the popular mainstream media.

Last race outcomes for yesterday, 30 January, are illustrative. In Melbourne, Flying Monty, hardly had the exposed form to justify shortening from 25s on Friday to start at 10s and paying 13s on the TAB in both Victoria and NSW -- with the F4 paying some $30,000. [Some insiders apparently knew more about Flying Monty than the disclosed form-guide suggested – the stewards should have, but did not, ask for an explanation. TAB punters have some questions for the stewards about policing insider trading.]

In NSW the F4 on the last paid some $4,500 -- while the winner was the favourite the other placegetters were at 30s and 20s, an overall outcome again hardly consistent with ‘good exposed form’.

Looking back over last race outcomes for the last 10 Saturdays in Sydney and Melbourne, any suggestion that the outcomes were consistent with ‘good exposed form’ underlines the absolute nonsense in Tabcorps published response to the punter’s question. 

Based on VicTAB results, in Victoria, the average dividend for the 10 ‘winners’ was $13 and the average F4 dividend $10,000: in NSW the disparity from ‘good’ was even worse – the average winner paid $16 and the average F4 dividend, some $20,000.

Within those 20 results for ‘last races’ the 10 highest winner dividends from the 20 races averaged almost 25 to 1 – the idea that these outcomes could be described as reflecting ‘good exposed form’ and being from ‘the best races in the country’ shows complete disregard for both appropriate accountability and fair treatment of TAB punters.

How was such an obviously incorrect answer given to a very serious question in the minds of most TAB punters who are taken for a ride week-in and week-out on two of the most popular betting options offered by Tabcorp – the Quadrella and B6.

If the truth be told Tabcorp is up to its old mercenary-monopoly tricks offering products -- the likes of the defunct Spinner -- that are deliberately of deceptively poor quality to punters. My guess is that by making the last race an absolute raffle most weeks it encourages punters to over-bet, to take the field, to the benefit of Tabcorp and its hangers on.

In my mind this is persistent and disgraceful abuse of a monopoly position that is prejudicial to the interests of most TAB punters not privy to the insider knowledge that tips others into selecting the likes of Flying Monty.

This ritual abuse of TAB punters has to be stopped – and the next time Tabcorp deigns to respond to a question from a punter it might first have regard to the facts at its fingertips and, more importantly, ask their paying customers, TAB punters, which races they would like for the Big6 and Quadrellas each week.
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2010-Jan-31, 11:01 PM


BIG6, BEST 6? – ASK PUNTERS, NOT TABCORP



Tabcorp needs to get the message that most punters do not want it to  continue as a provider of tote betting facilities because it panders to the insider industry ‘takers’ and does not protect its customers, TAB punters, the industry ‘givers’.



Firstly the big 6 is nothing but an educated lottery.

2ndly punters can pick and choose what they bet on, just because TABCORP provides the facility to do so does not mean punters have to bet on them.
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governor
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2010-Feb-01, 08:50 AM

why doesnt tabcorp allow the punter to choose a substitute in case of late scr's in all multiples?

if the punter doesnt mark the box he /she gets a refund or a special divvy, not the friggen tote fav as it is currently, many which arent the real fav anyway.
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Bubbasmith
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2010-Feb-01, 08:59 AM

Peter

Back in January 2009 when the Big6 was first introduced, I explained that very few participants in the Big6 would get the six winners, however, many would  get five out of the six and consider themselves as "unlucky". At that time, I posted that if each the six legs comprised twelve starters there would be seventy two ways a punter could get five out of the six winners. When an outsider wins any leg it generally blows the vast majority of punters out of getting the six. Regardless of which leg the outsider wins it has the same effect ..it knocks probably 95 % of punters out. To presume because the final leg has thrown up a few outsiders and that insiders could only benefit from such results is stretching it a bit, as Authorised has stated " the Big6 is nothing but an educated lottery."

Governor
Re Substitutes: Do you really think in 2010 Tabcorp's software could cope with your suggestion ?

 
« Last Edit: 2010-Feb-01, 09:02 AM by Bubbasmith » Logged
praiseworthy
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2010-Feb-01, 09:03 AM

oh pete - how is anyone ever going to take you seriously when you write such things.  Stop claiming to understand tyhe view of the punter when you clearly have little idea about betting.

Flying Monty was very have-able. Even I included it on the forum bet (and I certainly don't have inside information).

Lets look at the results more objectively as Pete has used averages to paint a picture. Of the 13 saturdays since november (couldn't be bothered going any further back) - the last in Melbourne on the vic tab has been won by 2 favourites (on vic tab), 4 2nd favourites, 2 4th favourites, 3 8th favourites and then 1 9th and one 13th favourite. Only Rainband and Demandehere were real 'blowouts' and pushed petes avergae over double figures. Otherwise 6 of the last 13 winners of the last on a saturday were first or second fave - I reckon thats not too bad a strike rate .
 the biggest thing punters want is consistency of legs -  the phones light up when the legs of the Big6, quaddie or daily double are changed for no reason.   Hence changing them from week to week would be an absolute disaster. Whenever the quaddie isn't on the last 4 races there's complaints - it's basically an institution.

Ultimately authorized is right - the provision of a bet type across certain races doesn't force the punter to take the bet.


« Last Edit: 2011-Nov-24, 11:29 AM by praiseworthy » Logged
arthur
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2010-Feb-01, 09:16 AM

AND if 6 favs bobbed there would be grumbles about the low divvie . . . lots(?) , well some punters actually pick longshots on form while the mugs blindly follow the newspaper polls
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Bubbasmith
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2010-Feb-01, 09:16 AM

Praiseworthy

In your last paragaph you wrote " Ultimately authorized is right - the provision of a bet type across certain races doesn't force the punter to take the bet." You might have added, the Big6, with its 25 % takeout, is really an alternative to those punters who would otherwise would buy a Lotto ticket, with a 40 % takeout + commission, and despite promotion by the likes of Shane Templeton, in reality does not really attract "insiders" as suggested by PM.
« Last Edit: 2010-Feb-01, 09:20 AM by Bubbasmith » Logged
governor
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2010-Feb-01, 09:46 AM

bubba with all the millions spent on tabcorp website developments over the years, you would hope so, but we all know its in the too hard basket, but to help out i have tracked down a a 5th grader who could do some minore programming changes for lunch money.
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Bubbasmith
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2010-Feb-01, 10:01 AM

Gov

Substitutes might not be a problem but special dividends for what first , second, third.....sixth leg with all winners / consolation dividends ? That throws up hundreds of dividends...you can forget that. No way you will ever get a refund for late scratchings..they need to get their 25% takeout of turnover.

As I suggested twelve months ago and since confirmed  by Praiseworthy...consolation dividend for first five winners and loser in last leg..that might suit PM as he believes the last leg is costing punters plenty  lol   lol
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dubbledee
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2010-Feb-01, 10:31 AM

The whole concept of consolation divvies if a loser, IMO - whether it's for the last leg, or ALL legs.

It's more important to pay the POOL to ANY winner.   Jackpots are unfair and should be outlawed.  Plus, I wouldn't want my divvy rounded DOWN either. unsure  smiley
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Bubbasmith
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2010-Feb-01, 10:43 AM

DD

I do not think rounding down on dividends is that relevant when dividends are over $100 (consolation ) or $100,000 ( Big6) .Whether punter collects $100,000 or $100,000.90 would not matter much unless he wants the 90 cents to buy a packet of PK ( are they 90 cents ? ). For most dividends,especially exotics, the rounding down is neglible. I once saw a TAB schedule that showed on a particular race the rounding down of the place dividends was in the thousands but on the trifecta, with a larger pool, it was $50.
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dubbledee
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2010-Feb-01, 10:45 AM

Bubba

Sorry.  I thought you'd detect my sarcasm in the final point of my post.  The others, I firmly believe though.

Of course you're right.  The roundings I care about are the $1.49s down to $1.40. rant
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Authorized
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2010-Feb-01, 10:51 AM

DD, did you have a thread explaining your objections to JACKPOTS ?

If not, can you explain briefly your thoughts on why jackpots are unfair ?
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dubbledee
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2010-Feb-01, 11:00 AM

Matt

There was a lengthy thread on the old forum, but I don't think it came across here.

The main point is that the principle of parimutuel betting is that the pool is divided among the winners.  If there are no winners in multi-selection bets (doubles, etc), the pool goes to the next best.  In a double, it would be 1st-2nd, then 1st-3rd, then 2nd-1st, etc.  In a Big 6, if there are no winners, the divvy should be paid on 1-1-1-1-1-2nd.

When a pool jackpots, it becomes available to those who contributed NIL to the original pool.  That, IMO, is not in keeping with the principles of tote betting.

(And I don't need to be told why TABs LOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVE jackpots.  Sadly, fairness has never been a strong suit among TABs.)
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GamblingMan
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2010-Feb-01, 11:08 AM

with trebles and quaddies sometimes 3 or 4 favs win that dont pay a whole lot but if you pick 1 horse per leg and have 20 units on it it can be a good bet. better value than an allup bet.



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