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Author Topic: BIG6, BEST 6? – ASK PUNTERS, NOT TABCORP  (Read 2648 times)
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Peter Mair
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Original Post 2010-Jan-31, 10:53 PM



BIG6, BEST 6? – ASK PUNTERS, NOT TABCORP

David Attenborough, the new head of Tabcorp’s wagering division, has the job ahead in ensuring appropriate control of the quality of the product being retailed to TAB punters.

Tabcorp needs to get the message that most punters do not want it to  continue as a provider of tote betting facilities because it panders to the insider industry ‘takers’ and does not protect its customers, TAB punters, the industry ‘givers’.

A classic example of an ingrained objectionable culture is Tabcorp’s answer, published yesterday at racenet.com.au, to a question about the selection of the races comprising the Big6 – especially in NSW.

As reported on Racenet -- Tabcorps external communications manager, Nicholas Tzaferis, correctly said that, usually, the B6 races in NSW are ‘the last three in Melbourne and last three in Sydney’: questionably, he went on to say – “these six races are generally the best in the country and there is usually good exposed form for punters”.

In my view, this latter remark is absolute nonsense – on the contrary, the last-race in both Sydney and Melbourne on Saturdays is typically a restricted-class race delivering an outcome consistent with raffle-racing when assessed in relation to the form ‘exposed’ in the form guides published in the popular mainstream media.

Last race outcomes for yesterday, 30 January, are illustrative. In Melbourne, Flying Monty, hardly had the exposed form to justify shortening from 25s on Friday to start at 10s and paying 13s on the TAB in both Victoria and NSW -- with the F4 paying some $30,000. [Some insiders apparently knew more about Flying Monty than the disclosed form-guide suggested – the stewards should have, but did not, ask for an explanation. TAB punters have some questions for the stewards about policing insider trading.]

In NSW the F4 on the last paid some $4,500 -- while the winner was the favourite the other placegetters were at 30s and 20s, an overall outcome again hardly consistent with ‘good exposed form’.

Looking back over last race outcomes for the last 10 Saturdays in Sydney and Melbourne, any suggestion that the outcomes were consistent with ‘good exposed form’ underlines the absolute nonsense in Tabcorps published response to the punter’s question. 

Based on VicTAB results, in Victoria, the average dividend for the 10 ‘winners’ was $13 and the average F4 dividend $10,000: in NSW the disparity from ‘good’ was even worse – the average winner paid $16 and the average F4 dividend, some $20,000.

Within those 20 results for ‘last races’ the 10 highest winner dividends from the 20 races averaged almost 25 to 1 – the idea that these outcomes could be described as reflecting ‘good exposed form’ and being from ‘the best races in the country’ shows complete disregard for both appropriate accountability and fair treatment of TAB punters.

How was such an obviously incorrect answer given to a very serious question in the minds of most TAB punters who are taken for a ride week-in and week-out on two of the most popular betting options offered by Tabcorp – the Quadrella and B6.

If the truth be told Tabcorp is up to its old mercenary-monopoly tricks offering products -- the likes of the defunct Spinner -- that are deliberately of deceptively poor quality to punters. My guess is that by making the last race an absolute raffle most weeks it encourages punters to over-bet, to take the field, to the benefit of Tabcorp and its hangers on.

In my mind this is persistent and disgraceful abuse of a monopoly position that is prejudicial to the interests of most TAB punters not privy to the insider knowledge that tips others into selecting the likes of Flying Monty.

This ritual abuse of TAB punters has to be stopped – and the next time Tabcorp deigns to respond to a question from a punter it might first have regard to the facts at its fingertips and, more importantly, ask their paying customers, TAB punters, which races they would like for the Big6 and Quadrellas each week.
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dubbledee
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2010-Feb-02, 09:32 AM

There are lots of things in racing (and betting) that can be construed as unfair.  Like when a horse knocks us over, and runs 10th, and we back a horse for a place and it runs 1st or 2nd, yet we cop a deduction due to a late scratching, etc, etc.

There are no practicable solutions to these things and we have no option but to carry the unfairness.

The sub-rule for SCRs in multi-race bets might be seen as unfair by some, but the solution has to be practicable.  Paying a consolation dividend when we have 1 or 2 or 3 winners in a quaddie with one or two or three SCRs is not practicable.  Where would the money come from?  How would the dividend be communicated to punters - given that there could be many combinations of winner/s and SCR/s?  And would we treat W-SCR-W-W the same as W-W-W-SCR and SCR-W-SCR-WIN?

We can get up on our soap-box as much as we like on this one, but I'd wager there'll never be a change in the sub rule.  Punters understand it, and I believe the majority want it.
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Antitab#
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2010-Feb-02, 09:42 AM

There is no solution for luck in runing. There is a solution for late scratchings in multiple bet options because the TAB have been applying since they started in Doubles. Its called a special div. There is no reason it cant be extended to trebles and quadrellas. 

Surely you know where the money comes from . It comes from quarantining those that have selected the percentage of the pool invested by those that have the 3 winners and a scratching exactly as is the case with doubles. Instead of plonking that money into the favourite as is currently the case, return it to the punter.

Your major argument is that it would be difficult to communicate to punters. However again they already do it for doubles so why would trebles or quadrellas be any different.

 
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dubbledee
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2010-Feb-02, 09:48 AM

Doubles are simple, relative to quaddies.

Did they give a special divvy in a double for SCR-WIN?  or only for WIN-SCR?

In a quaddie or Big 6 there are potentially MANY combos of winner/winners and SCRs.  It would end up a dog's breakfast.

I will never happen, and IMO, it should not.
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dubbledee
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2010-Feb-02, 09:49 AM

And I meant to add that when the sub wins punters are very happy to be on it.
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Bubbasmith
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2010-Feb-02, 09:54 AM

DD

A few years ago NSW TAB had a fairer system for daily doubles. If your first leg was scratched all your second leg bets went onto each individual runner on the win tote in the second leg.If you took the field levelled staked you would automatically have the second leg winner and hoped for a roughie to win.If you staked your second leg in percentage terms you hoped you found the winner and at the odds you assessed.
If after your first leg had won and your second leg was scratched after placing your double you got a special dividend.

Seemed pretty fair to me, I do not know why they changed. Can we blame those "Victorians" again ?   lol   lol  

Bubba
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« Last Edit: 2010-Feb-02, 10:06 AM by Bubbasmith » Logged
dubbledee
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2010-Feb-02, 09:58 AM

Bubba

Yes, Victorians have a lot to answer for. smiley

Re the NSW approach (for doubles) - I remember that and it's sensible, and would be accepted by punters.

But that's not an option for quaddies, etc, when a previous leg has already WON.  We can't go backwards.
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Bubbasmith
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2010-Feb-02, 10:04 AM

Yeah, Victorians have a lot to answer for.

A "Victorian", Sir Chester Manifold, the owner of Crisp, convinced the Victorian government to intoduce an off course tote to legalise off track betting. It took few years later for every other state to wake up and enact similar legislation.

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dubbledee
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2010-Feb-02, 10:51 AM

Life was simpler without it. lol

I bet they dreamt up quaddies, too. chin
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GamblingMan
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2010-Feb-02, 11:08 AM

I was talking about doubles and trebles and making large bets not $1  lol

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henry
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2010-Feb-02, 06:16 PM

What is the current situation with a late scratching in an ALL UP. I for one don't want anyone sticking the Sub in as a replacement. I would prefer the ALL UP to then run as a double or trebble.
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praiseworthy
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2010-Feb-02, 06:19 PM

no subs in all ups henry
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henry
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2010-Feb-02, 06:21 PM

Thanks
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henry
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2010-Feb-04, 12:46 AM

Before I moved to the sunny state from Sydney 17 years ago the NSW tab paid 1st, 2nd, any, on trifectas when nobody  had the three in, there was no such thing as jackpots. I understand that by jackpotting Unitab hope to create better interest in the exotics, (unfamiliar of the current situation with the other parimutuels), however I consider it criminal that all moneys in the pool on the current race is not distributed to the punters that contributed in that race. Trifectas should pay 1st ,2nd, any if there no live runners on all three placings, the total pool should be paid out to live tickets even if they are only holding 1%. Similar for the first 4, quadrellas or any of the other exotics.  I find it extremely offensive to know that part or all of my contribution on the exotics in a particular race may be redirected to another race on a different day often a week or more down the track in a race that I have no interest. Am I spruking for myself only, no, many punters I have spoken to are of the same opinion and state that this is the main reason that they do not patronise the exotics, especially the first 4 at country, provincial or meetings that hold relatively small pools eg. trots and dogs. I have no doubts that if Unitab dropped the current jackpot system and made the payouts fairer to the punters then many more punters would participate in the exotics at these meetings. No doubt the tab will continue to rip off the mug punters.
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dubbledee
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2010-Feb-04, 10:11 AM

Henry

Are you serious in blaming UNiTAB for the jackpot practice?  It's universal.
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henry
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2010-Feb-04, 11:21 AM

Have no idea which establishment started the jackpotting, basically it is a sheet from the Lotto, who is responsible I don't care other than I disagree with the practice.
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