Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
2012-May-28, 08:49 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Racehorse TALK

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]   Go Down
 
Author Topic: BIG6, BEST 6? – ASK PUNTERS, NOT TABCORP  (Read 2648 times)
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Peter Mair
Group 2
user 326
Offline Offline
Posts: 1505
Original Post 2010-Jan-31, 10:53 PM



BIG6, BEST 6? – ASK PUNTERS, NOT TABCORP

David Attenborough, the new head of Tabcorp’s wagering division, has the job ahead in ensuring appropriate control of the quality of the product being retailed to TAB punters.

Tabcorp needs to get the message that most punters do not want it to  continue as a provider of tote betting facilities because it panders to the insider industry ‘takers’ and does not protect its customers, TAB punters, the industry ‘givers’.

A classic example of an ingrained objectionable culture is Tabcorp’s answer, published yesterday at racenet.com.au, to a question about the selection of the races comprising the Big6 – especially in NSW.

As reported on Racenet -- Tabcorps external communications manager, Nicholas Tzaferis, correctly said that, usually, the B6 races in NSW are ‘the last three in Melbourne and last three in Sydney’: questionably, he went on to say – “these six races are generally the best in the country and there is usually good exposed form for punters”.

In my view, this latter remark is absolute nonsense – on the contrary, the last-race in both Sydney and Melbourne on Saturdays is typically a restricted-class race delivering an outcome consistent with raffle-racing when assessed in relation to the form ‘exposed’ in the form guides published in the popular mainstream media.

Last race outcomes for yesterday, 30 January, are illustrative. In Melbourne, Flying Monty, hardly had the exposed form to justify shortening from 25s on Friday to start at 10s and paying 13s on the TAB in both Victoria and NSW -- with the F4 paying some $30,000. [Some insiders apparently knew more about Flying Monty than the disclosed form-guide suggested – the stewards should have, but did not, ask for an explanation. TAB punters have some questions for the stewards about policing insider trading.]

In NSW the F4 on the last paid some $4,500 -- while the winner was the favourite the other placegetters were at 30s and 20s, an overall outcome again hardly consistent with ‘good exposed form’.

Looking back over last race outcomes for the last 10 Saturdays in Sydney and Melbourne, any suggestion that the outcomes were consistent with ‘good exposed form’ underlines the absolute nonsense in Tabcorps published response to the punter’s question. 

Based on VicTAB results, in Victoria, the average dividend for the 10 ‘winners’ was $13 and the average F4 dividend $10,000: in NSW the disparity from ‘good’ was even worse – the average winner paid $16 and the average F4 dividend, some $20,000.

Within those 20 results for ‘last races’ the 10 highest winner dividends from the 20 races averaged almost 25 to 1 – the idea that these outcomes could be described as reflecting ‘good exposed form’ and being from ‘the best races in the country’ shows complete disregard for both appropriate accountability and fair treatment of TAB punters.

How was such an obviously incorrect answer given to a very serious question in the minds of most TAB punters who are taken for a ride week-in and week-out on two of the most popular betting options offered by Tabcorp – the Quadrella and B6.

If the truth be told Tabcorp is up to its old mercenary-monopoly tricks offering products -- the likes of the defunct Spinner -- that are deliberately of deceptively poor quality to punters. My guess is that by making the last race an absolute raffle most weeks it encourages punters to over-bet, to take the field, to the benefit of Tabcorp and its hangers on.

In my mind this is persistent and disgraceful abuse of a monopoly position that is prejudicial to the interests of most TAB punters not privy to the insider knowledge that tips others into selecting the likes of Flying Monty.

This ritual abuse of TAB punters has to be stopped – and the next time Tabcorp deigns to respond to a question from a punter it might first have regard to the facts at its fingertips and, more importantly, ask their paying customers, TAB punters, which races they would like for the Big6 and Quadrellas each week.
Logged
 
dubbledee
Editor
Group 1
user 285
Offline Offline
Posts: 23921
2010-Feb-04, 11:23 AM

Have no idea which establishment started the jackpotting, basically it is a sheet from the Lotto, who is responsible I don't care other than I disagree with the practice.

On numerous threads, someone on this forum has been campaining vigorously against the practice since day 1.
Logged
Peter Mair
Group 2
user 326
Offline Offline
Posts: 1505
2010-Feb-12, 09:53 AM



THEY HAVE DONE IT AGAIN -- AN R82 IS RACE 9  AT THE VALLEY TOMORROW

On a day featuring group and listed races at the Valley, the last leg of the popular exotics is a restricrted calss event that should have been scheduled earlier in the day if Tabcorp were serious about choosing the Best 6 for the Big 6.

Why would Tabcorp so choose to spoil for punters the Quadrellas and Big Sixes and Daily Doubles across two states?

The  punnters who are their customers would not want that. 
Logged
Authorized
Steward
Group 1
user 18
Offline Offline
Posts: 19693
2010-Feb-12, 10:01 AM

Why do they need to increase a quality meeting to  9 races with a race like that, why isn't it just 8 races ?
Logged
triple7
Editor
Group 1
user 14
Online Online
Posts: 7112
2010-Feb-12, 10:02 AM

Pretty obvious why Peter. Low class race with big field as one of the last legs could well throw up an outsider result. What would you rather market over the next few months, Big6 div pays $2,467 or Big6 div pays $347,876?
Logged
praiseworthy
Guest
2010-Feb-12, 11:36 AM

night - do a straw poll - Tabcorp don't schedule the races - so would you prefer the betting oeprator to;

1. wait until declarations on a thursday morning
2. decide subjectively which races are 'best' across 40 race meetings on the weekend
3. allocate all exotic bet types based on this decision so punters wouldn't know unless they checked their form which legs the mutliples were on

If that were the casde tomorrow my subjective judgement is that the BIG6 would be on;

Leg 1 Race 5 sydney
Leg 2 - Race 7 MV
Leg 3 - Race 6 sydney
Leg 4- Race 7 Adelaide
Leg 5 - Race 7 Sydney
Leg 6 - Race 8 sydney


(Realise this leaves out the alister clark - but the favourite won it's maiden at cranbourne last start so I can't be convinced of quality)

Or would you prefer punters had certainty and consistency when they bet - and on nearly all occasions be confident in knowing that the clubs schedule their best races later in the day, schedule the exotics across the same races week in week out - the races that week in week out have the best turnover. 

Tabcorp do know the answer to this question - you clearly do not.
Logged
calgary
Group 1
user 61
Offline Offline
Posts: 8536
2010-Feb-12, 11:38 AM

I think PW it would be fair to see that the last race is not one of the best quality of the day and is only positioned their to juice up the exotics.
Logged
praiseworthy
Guest
2010-Feb-12, 11:57 AM

calgary - partly agree - it's always been scheduled by clubs as 'the get out' there is a tradition of trying to make it a big field so if you're down you're still a chance to get out. Also I've heard that the last isn't great for races that involve a trophy presentation - so group races - as it isn't a great tiem to be making a presentation speech as all the crowed files out and the seagulls fly in (not that anyone listens anyway!).

From memory a long time back the quaddie finsihed on the 2nd last of the day in Victoria - and when it was changed to the last 4 races turnover went up - so punters voted through their pocket.
Logged
Peter Mair
Group 2
user 326
Offline Offline
Posts: 1505
2010-Feb-15, 09:38 AM



IT HAPPENED AGAIN -- RACE 9 AT THE VALLEY WAS A RAFFLE AGAIN

...........as expected the last leg of the popular exotics on Saturday was nothing close to Tabcorps claim that it schedules the best races for these options.

The F4 on the last leg paid $23,500+  with the winner paying over $20 --  a horse which my form guide said was 'not up to these' -- and similarly for the horse placed second.

A major point of concern for punters is that these low grade races are open to exploitation by insiders who know more than the public form guide reveals.

One would like to know a bit about those who backed these unfancied runners -- including in the quadrellas and B6s. Do the stewards ever have a look at who knew more than the rest of us?

It is for these reasons that the looming decisions of the courts and Productivity Commission to bring more competition to racing wagering are so important: the racing industry and Tabcorp will have only themselves to blame for the consequences of ripping off TAB punters for decades.
Logged
Tevez17
Steward
Group 1
user 159
Online Online
Posts: 6437
2010-Feb-15, 10:37 AM


IT HAPPENED AGAIN -- RACE 9 AT THE VALLEY WAS A RAFFLE AGAIN

...........as expected the last leg of the popular exotics on Saturday was nothing close to Tabcorps claim that it schedules the best races for these options.

The F4 on the last leg paid $23,500+  with the winner paying over $20 --  a horse which my form guide said was 'not up to these' -- and similarly for the horse placed second.

A major point of concern for punters is that these low grade races are open to exploitation by insiders who know more than the public form guide reveals.

One would like to know a bit about those who backed these unfancied runners -- including in the quadrellas and B6s. Do the stewards ever have a look at who knew more than the rest of us?

It is for these reasons that the looming decisions of the courts and Productivity Commission to bring more competition to racing wagering are so important: the racing industry and Tabcorp will have only themselves to blame for the consequences of ripping off TAB punters for decades.



KAAVERTs record on rain affected tracks in Aus -  Win 4 Place 1 Un-Placed 3, Williams on board, hardly unfindable if you do your research, & AL WAFI in decent form, a win 2 starts back a 3rd in the Colac cup last start, doesn't mind the sting out and the best rider of MV on board.

Once again Pete i think you're hearing Hoofs and thinking Zebras, they're just Horses my friend.
Logged
dubbledee
Editor
Group 1
user 285
Offline Offline
Posts: 23921
2010-Feb-15, 10:59 AM

I dunno if there's any data to suggest otherwise, but I'd think "Big 6" cards should cover the last 6 races at the one venue.

Go stuffing around with more than one venue and you'll disenfranchise the locals who operate on their own back-yard.  The potential for "punter error" and frustration is also increased.

Sure the big players will come in regardless of the make-up of the 6, but these aren't the people keep TABs ticking over.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]   Go Up
 
 
Jump to:  

 - Links - Luxbet Horse Racing Betting - Racenet - Horse Racing - Noms and Acc - QTAB - TAB Horse Racing Betting - Racing and Sports - Horse Racing Only
Powered by SMF 1.1.15 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc | Adagio design by Bloc