Racehorse TALK

Surely it would be Carbine.

With daylight second. 

Vain

Give me a break.

Carbine's son, grandson and great grandson all won English Derbies.

Matt!  Matt! Quick, someone get Matt!

Heroic would be another, DD and JWH could tell us more.

No mention of Sunline yet? 

Carbine proved his potential as a sire the following year, 1892, by siring a colt named Wallace, who went on to become an outstanding racehorse and sire. Wallace was considered the best of Carbine's Australian-bred progeny. He won several important races and despite limited stud opportunities was the leading sire of the 1915/16 Australian season. Wallace also finished three times second and three times third on the sires' table.[6] During Carbine’s short Australian stud career he sired the winners of 203½ races worth ₤48,624, including the multiple stakes winners, Amberite and La Carabine.[7]
In 1895, the Duke of Portland purchased Carbine for 13,000 guineas.[6] He was shipped from Melbourne to the Duke's English stud at Welbeck Abbey where he was the second stud sire to the outstanding St. Simon, who covered the best mares. In spite of this Carbine went on to sire Spearmint, the 1906 Epsom Derby winner.[7] Spearmint in turn sired Spion Kop, who also won the Derby. Spion Kop's offspring included another Derby winner, Felstead. Felstead's son, The Buzzard, later stood at stud in Australia.[6] The wheel of history turned full circle when two of The Buzzard's offspring, Old Rowley and Rainbird, each won the Melbourne Cup, in 1940 and 1945, repectively. Carbine was also the grandsire of American champion Johren, the winner of the 1918 Belmont Stakes. Johren received the honor of being given the American Eclipse Award for Horse of the Year.
Over half of the 65 Melbourne Cup winners from 1914 to 1978 were descendants of Carbine.[8] Statistics and contemporary assessments indicate that he was a dominant Antipodean racehorse of the 19th century, and he still ranks with such 20th-century Thoroughbreds as such as his descendants Nearco, Northern Dancer, Secretariat, Seattle Slew, Ballymoss, Shergar, Arkle, Never Say Die, Mr. Prospector, Nasrullah, Nijinsky II (winner of the UK Triple Crown), Royal Palace, Fort Marcy, Better Loosen Up, Sir Ivor, Invasor, Phar Lap, Tulloch, Kingston Town[9] and Bernborough in terms of renown among turf historians.
Other post-World War Two horses with Carbine figuring in their pedigrees have included the Melbourne Cup winners Rising Fast, Comic Court, Rain Lover and Think Big. Modern-day descendants of Carbine are the New Zealand mare Sunline and the British bred Makybe Diva, winner of three Melbourne Cups. Modern day competitors Mine That Bird and Rachel Alexandra have the pedigrees from Carbine on both their sire and dam sides.
Carbine died at Welbeck on 10 June 1914. He had suffered a stroke and was put down with a drug to end his suffering, according to the horse's 'biographer', Grania Polliness. The Duke of Portland gave his skeleton to the Melbourne Museum. Today it is displayed at the Australian Racing Museum and Hall of Fame in Melbourne.[10] Carbine's combined record of documented success as both a racehorse and an international sire is possibly unequalled by any other Australasian Thoroughbred.[6]
Carbine had his portrait painted by the noted equine artist, Martin Stainforth and it was reproduced in Racehorses in Australia.[11]

Interesting question.

If you make the entry level to "The Club" 10 stakes race wins, Lonhro (given time) certainly has the potential to become the best ever. Good to see the Sir Tristram line alive and kicking.

Carbine - 31 Stakes race wins / Sire of 19 Stakes winners for 51 stakes wins (according to the Stud Book)
Vain - 12 / 43 for 96
Luskin Star - 13 / 30 for 66
Lonhro - 25 / 11 for 17

Any others?

Checked these:

Marscay - 3 / 67 for 156
Bletchingly - 1 / 61 for 174
Star Kingdom - 8 / 52 for 153
Zabeel - 5 / 121 for 286
Danehill - 3 / 193 for 418 (not including Zipping today!)
Redoute's Choice - 5 / 58 for 120
Flying Spur - 5 / 67 for 116
Rory's Jester - 5 / 72 for 127

.... lonhro certainly has the potential,combined with the vain mare 'peach'... which equals denman .... although 4th was a little disappointing today, the future champ must of had a headache today just not himself hehehe xx

What are the relative ratings given to each category?

i.e. I think Danehill and Zabeel's stud records are fair superior to any equivalent achievements of Lonrho on the racetrack in that there studs they are virtually unmatched in Australia.

The same could not be said for Lonhro's racetrack record (as much as some deluded soles may believe!).

I loved Lonhro but on the track Carbine's record was better.

In a hundred years Lonhro might be able to boast descendants the quality of :

Nearco, Northern Dancer, Secretariat, Seattle Slew, Ballymoss, Shergar, Arkle, Never Say Die, Mr. Prospector, Nasrullah, Nijinsky II (winner of the UK Triple Crown), Royal Palace, Fort Marcy, Better Loosen Up, Sir Ivor, Invasor, Phar Lap, Tulloch, Kingston Town[9] and Bernborough  ... and there's English Derby winners not in that list,

but until then, there's no argument to be had.

I don't think he (Lonhro) will ever boast Carbine's record on the breeding side Wenona, but you cannot deny the fact that he has become "significant" and is worthy of being included in discussions of champion racehorses breeding records.

I wonder if Sheik Mohammed will ever send some good Danehill broodmares out to be served - quid pro quo for the horses heading over to Dubai.

Carbine head of the list

Ajax, Bernborough, Strawberry Road, Todman, Vain

Hard to claim Danehill as an Australian horse.

True - although would it be fair to claim he made his name as a stallion here?