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Enable - International Racing - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Enable  (Read 13187 times)

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Offline Authorized

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« 2018-Nov-04, 11:59 AM Reply #25 »
She is a freak.

Her winning the Breeders Cup whilst it breaks a Arc winners hoodoo it does come off a light campaign compared with all the other Arc winners who went to the Breeders Cup.

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2018-Nov-04, 12:59 PM Reply #26 »
Cox Plate next year

Offline timw

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« 2018-Nov-09, 05:39 PM Reply #27 »
According to the Paulick Report Enable is heading back to the UK where they will see how she is going and a third attempt at the Arc is a possibility. 

Offline timw

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« 2018-Nov-11, 08:04 PM Reply #28 »
Paulick Report is surveying readers whether horses that only race once in the US should be eligible for the Eclipse awards.  I might be wrong but guess this survey is aimed as the best US grass horse noting that the first two across the line in the Breeder's Cup Turf (Enable and Magical) were both having their first start in the US.  I see Max Presnell does not rate the Melbourne Cup among his top 6 races but if whingeing were the sole criteria for a top six place then complaints by owners and trainers would have it number 1.  So who is the top Australian stayer ?   

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2018-Nov-12, 07:17 AM Reply #29 »
  So who is the top Australian stayer ?

Winx if she had different owners and trainers

Offline Authorized

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« 2018-Nov-13, 12:26 PM Reply #30 »
Youngstar.

Offline j.r.b.

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« 2018-Nov-19, 08:23 PM Reply #31 »
Enable named Cartier Older Horse of the Year and stays in training in 2019.
« Last Edit: 2018-Nov-20, 11:01 AM by j.r.b. »

Offline j.r.b.

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« 2019-Jan-11, 08:58 AM Reply #32 »
Enable's little half sister by Frankel has been named Portrush.

Offline timw

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« 2019-Jan-12, 07:49 PM Reply #33 »
John Gosden was interviewed on Ch 78 today as he is on the Gold Coast and he said he had watched all Winx starts.  He would not run Enable against Winx over 10f on a good track but thought Enable would win over 12f. on a wet track.   He did confirm Enable is still heading towards the Arc.  Chris Waller did not make a similar comparison.  Both were interviewed separately. 

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-Jan-13, 08:49 AM Reply #34 »
John Gosden was interviewed on Ch 78 today as he is on the Gold Coast and he said he had watched all Winx starts.  He would not run Enable against Winx over 10f on a good track but thought Enable would win over 12f. on a wet track. 

Is 'wet" "soft" or "heavy"?

Seem to me Winx excels on both.

Seems to me Gosden went back to see the last time she was beaten and saw it was the first and only time she ran 12f and it was on a 'soft" track. 

And it  was nearly four years ago.

Silly  comment really.

Like me saying I could beat Walter Lindrum at billiards.





   

Offline Authorized

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« 2019-Jan-13, 09:48 AM Reply #35 »
Personally I thought Gosden was being 100% diplomatic.

I thought Francescas comment was 100% idiotic ( but she is soo pretty ) saying Enable proved her versatility having won in 3 Countries all over the same trip. 

Offline timw

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« 2019-Jul-28, 09:36 AM Reply #36 »
Having thought Enable is one of the best horses I have seen (on TV anyway) I wondered how she would rate against some of Europe's all time greats.

The following is a list of most of Europe's best statistically (28 in total including Enable).  Some of them I know very little about yet.  'GIL' after wins means that race was classified as a Group/Grade 1 race on the introduction of the pattern/grading system.   I omitted Sea Bird who raced rarely even by European standards. 

Cheers

Gladiateur (FR) 1862      19 starts, 16 wins (6 x G1L), 0 seconds, 1 thirds.  Win % 84.2, Place % 89.5
Kincsem (HUN) 1874      55 starts, 54 wins + 1DH (won run-off) (3 x G1L), 0 seconds, 0 thirds.  Win % 100.0, Place % 100.0.
Ormonde (GB) 1883      16 starts, 16 wins (5 x G1L), 0 seconds, 0 thirds.  Win % 100.0, Place % 100.0.
Donovan (GB) 1886      21 starts, 18 wins (4 x G1L), 2 seconds, 1 third.  Win % 85.7, Place % 100.0.
Orme (GB) 1889      18 starts, 14 wins (6 x G1L), 3 seconds, 0 thirds.  Win % 77.8, Place % 94.4
Isinglass (GB) 1890      12 starts, 11 wins (6 x G1L), 1 seconds, 0 thirds.  Win % 91.7, Place % 100.0.
La Camargo (FR) 1898      34 starts, 24 wins (9 x G1L), 6 seconds, 1 thirds.  Win % 70.6, Place % 91.2.
Pretty Polly (IRE) 1901       24 starts: 22 wins (8 x G1L), 2 seconds, 0 thirds,  Win % 91.7, Place % 100.0
Bayardo (GB) 1906      25 starts: 22 wins (6 x G1L), 1 seconds, 0 thirds,  Win % 88.0, Place % 92.0
Lemberg (GB) 1907      24 starts: 17 wins (6.5 x G1L), 4 seconds, 2 thirds,  Win % 70.8, Place % 95.8
Ksar (FR) 1918      15 starts: 11 wins (8 x G1L), 3 seconds, 0 thirds,  Win % 73.3, Place % 93.3.
Oleander (GER) 1924      23 starts: 19 wins (5 x G1L), 1 seconds, 2 thirds,  Win % 82.6, Place % 95.7
Brantome (FR) 1931      14 starts: 12 wins (8 x G1L), 0 seconds, 0 thirds, Win % 85.7, Place % 85.7
Bahram (IRE) 1932      9 starts: 9 wins (4 x G1L), 0 seconds, 0 thirds, Win % 100.0, Place % 100.0
Nearco (ITY) 1935      14 starts, 14 wins (4 x G1L), 0 seconds, 0 thirds.  Win % 100.0, Place % 100.0.
Tenerani (ITY) 1944      22 starts: 17 wins (5 x G1L), xx seconds, xx thirds.  Win % 77.3, Place % xx.x.
Tantieme (FR) 1947      15 starts: 12 wins (8 x G1L), 1 seconds, 1 thirds.  Win % 80.0, Place % 93.3.
Ribot (GB) 1952      16 starts, 16 wins (5 x G1L), 0 seconds, 0 thirds.  Win % 100.0, Place % 100.0.
Petite Etoile (GB) 1956      19 starts, 14 wins (7 x G1L), 5 seconds, 0 thirds.  Win % 73.7, Place % 100.0.
Nijinsky II (CAN) 1967      13 starts, 11 wins (6 x G1L), 2 seconds, 0 thirds.  Win % 84.6, Place % 100.0.
Brigadier Gerard (GB) 1968      18 starts, 17 wins (7 x G1L), 1 second, 0 thirds.  Win % 94.4, Place % 100.0.
Mill Reef (USA) 1968      14 starts, 12 wins (7 x G1L), 2 seconds, 0 thirds.  Win % 85.7, Place % 100.0.
Alleged (USA) 1974      10 starts: 9 wins (2 x G1), 1 second, 0 thirds.  Win % 90.0, Place % 100.0.
Miesque (USA) 1984      16 starts: 12 wins (10 x G1), 3 seconds, 1 third.  Win % 75.0, Place % 100.0.
Rock of Gibraltar (IRE) 1999      13 starts, 10 wins (8 x G1), 2 seconds, 0 thirds.  Win % 76.9, Place % 92.3.
Goldikova (IRE) 2005      27 starts: 17 wins (14 x G1), 6 seconds, 3 thirds.  Win % 63.0, Place % 96.3.
Frankel (GB) 2008      14 starts, 14 wins (10 x G1), 0 seconds, 0 thirds.  Win % 100.0, Place % 100.0.
Enable (GB) 2014      13 starts: 12 wins (9 x G1), 0 seconds, 1 third.  Win % 92.3, Place % 100.0.


« Last Edit: 2019-Jul-28, 11:33 AM by timw »

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-Jul-28, 09:57 AM Reply #37 »
   I omitted Sea Bird who raced rarely even by European standards. 

From what I can see he had 3 starts at 2 and 5 starts at 3. - beaten once.

Offline Authorized

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« 2019-Aug-04, 05:35 PM Reply #38 »

Offline timw

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« 2019-Aug-04, 09:27 PM Reply #39 »
The commentator in the video refers to 3 horses he rates better that Enable - Sceptre, Dahlia and Allez France.  Despite there talents I did not include them in the table above on statistical grounds (mainly winning percentage).  I have summarized each below:

Sceptre (GB) 1899   25 starts, 13 wins (5 x G1L), 5 seconds, 3 thirds.  Win % 52.0, Place % 84.0.

Group 1 wins (retrospective) - only 1 in open company
One Thousand Guineas Stakes
Two Thousand Guineas Stakes
Oaks Stakes
St Leger Stakes
Champion Stakes

Allez France (USA) 1970   21 starts, 13 wins (8 x G1), 3 seconds, 1 third.  Win % 61.9, Place % 81.0.

Group 1 wins:
Critérium des Pouliches (G1) (later Prix Marcel Boussac)
Poule d'Essai des Pouliches (G1)
Prix de Diane (G1)
Prix Vermeille (G1)
Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe (G1)
Prix d'Ispahan (G1)
Prix Ganay (G1)
Prix Ganay (G1)

Dahlia (USA) 1970   48 starts, 15 wins (10 x G1), 3 seconds, 7 thirds.  Win % 31.3, Place % 52.1.

Group 1 wins:
Prix Saint-Alary (G1)
Irish Guinness Oaks (G1)
King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes (G1)
Washington D. C., International (G1)
Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud (G1)
King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes (G1)
Benson & Hedges Gold Cup (G1)
Man O' War Stakes (G1)
Benson & Hedges Gold Cup (G1)
Hollywood Invitational Hcp (G1)

Interestingly Allez France beat Dahlia home 8 times in France (every time they met) yet Dahlia was arguably the international star.

Offline timw

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« 2019-Aug-05, 06:02 PM Reply #40 »
Follow up to commentary posted by Authorised above "https://www.racingtv.com/videos/watch/ondemand/36382" that Sceptre is one of the all time great fillies/mares better than Enable.

The Biographical Encyclopaedia Of British Flat Racing (1978) entry re Sceptre commences:  "One of the greatest fillies in racing history…"  Thereafter for almost every race she didn't win the editors 'bag' the owner, the trainer, the trainers assistant and the jockey (she only lost the Derby because of incompetent riding so missed out on a fifth classic victory and did not win at her only start in France for the same reason) and conclude "It is interesting to speculate on what Sceptre's career would have been if the Duke of Westminster had not died and if she had been under John Porter's expert care for the whole of her racing career (she was sold by the estate before she raced).  As it is her unique record of four classic victories will never be equalled." . 

Do we think Winx was ridden perfectly every time - I don't but she still kept her winning streak alive, as did Black Caviar.

And further where does that leave the WFA scale in the scheme of horse racing.  Do fillies and mares deserve any allowance (Admiral Rous is dead) or can they be permitted to take testosterone or whatever to catch up - who knows what happens in good ole USA - The more I read about USA horse racing the more I wonder whether it is East Germany reincarnate for both boys and girls - enlighten me.   

Offline Authorized

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« 2019-Aug-08, 12:04 PM Reply #41 »
Winx and Black Caviar had that much on their opposition their jockeys simply kept them out of trouble.

Enable, in her King George showed similar class, just keep her out of trouble and she wins.

Who won the races Sceptre was beaten in ?

Offline j.r.b.

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« 2019-Sep-05, 11:46 AM Reply #42 »
Enable won the Yorkshire Oaks a couple of weeks back against 3 overmatched, albeit reasonably to well performed, opponents.

J H M Gosden had 2 runners and A P O'Brien 2 runners. No-one else wanted to take her on, and who can blame them? Black Caviar, Winx and Frankel were sometimes shunned by the potential opposition.   


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