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I just Saw The New Nijinsky - FRANKEL - International Racing - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: I just Saw The New Nijinsky - FRANKEL  (Read 90493 times)

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Offline mugshot

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« 2012-Nov-05, 05:44 AM Reply #500 »
One that point, does that make defending champion St Nicholas Abbey a bad horse for coming third?

Offline The Jackal

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« 2012-Nov-05, 12:08 PM Reply #501 »
Totally agree, one bad race in the Breeders Cup doesnt mean a horse is a poor runner

Correct, it doesn't, it just makes them not world class, much like Zoffany last year, these milers Frankel has been racing are highly questionable, which is exactly what was suggested all along.
Zoffany could not even win outside of Ireland, backended the field in 2 USA starts and Excelebration can't even run a place in the USA.

Arc runner up Shareta also unable to quicken in the Breeders Cup Turf off a pace, that at 2:22 for the mile and a half, was a little too quick for the Euros.
Japanese Group 2 horse Trailblazer split her and St Nicholas Abbey.

It must be a concern that Timeform is getting these Euro ratings so badly wrong.   :yes:

Offline j.r.b.

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« 2012-Nov-05, 01:59 PM Reply #502 »
Correct, it doesn't, it just makes them not world class, much like Zoffany last year, these milers Frankel has been racing are highly questionable, which is exactly what was suggested all along.
Zoffany could not even win outside of Ireland, backended the field in 2 USA starts and Excelebration can't even run a place in the USA.

Arc runner up Shareta also unable to quicken in the Breeders Cup Turf off a pace, that at 2:22 for the mile and a half, was a little too quick for the Euros.
Japanese Group 2 horse Trailblazer split her and St Nicholas Abbey.

It must be a concern that Timeform is getting these Euro ratings so badly wrong.   :yes:

Which means, by extension, that Dancing Brave and Montjeu were not world class?

Of course, that's far too simplistic an assessment - at least in my view.

Who's to say that Excelebration just didn't handle the configuration of the track? After all, he hadn't been around a bend in a race for more than 12 months.

Or maybe he had just trained off? 

Offline The Jackal

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« 2012-Nov-05, 02:43 PM Reply #503 »
Dancing Brave was certainly not worth his timeform rating as is the case with Frankel and as I have mentioned before, they are both owned by the same middle eastern interests.

Offline winner

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« 2012-Nov-05, 02:51 PM Reply #504 »
Not a bad Arc this one.  :) Dancing Brave.

(you have watch on Youtube but worth the trip.)


Offline Authorized

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« 2012-Nov-05, 05:49 PM Reply #505 »
The Jackal, you would have been far more impressive had you talked up the dynamic performance of both Wise Dan and Animal Kingdom. There is no doubt in my mind they are outstanding animals. Rather than rubbishing the horse that ran 4th not beaten that far, talking up theses two would be more fullfilling.

Wise Dan ran about 4 seconds faster than the mile dirt race. How much faster are turf horses to dirt horses ?

Offline firezuki

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« 2012-Nov-05, 07:10 PM Reply #506 »

Wise Dan ran about 4 seconds faster than the mile dirt race. How much faster are turf horses to dirt horses ?

They're not. 

Offline manikato1

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« 2012-Nov-05, 08:33 PM Reply #507 »
Which makes me think the turf races weren't run at the right distance.

Offline mugshot

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« 2012-Nov-06, 04:16 AM Reply #508 »
Which means, by extension, that Dancing Brave and Montjeu were not world class?

Of course, that's far too simplistic an assessment - at least in my view.

Who's to say that Excelebration just didn't handle the configuration of the track? After all, he hadn't been around a bend in a race for more than 12 months.

Or maybe he had just trained off? 

Not just bends, some horses prefer right tracks, some left, ground consistency also needs to be taken into account...like you say track configuration.

Offline Authorized

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« 2012-Nov-06, 03:57 PM Reply #509 »

Breeders’ Cup Mile (G1)

Wise Dan established a new course mark in the Breeders’ Cup Mile, lowering the record set by Atticus in 1997, and carrying 126 pounds in the effort (Atticus carried 117). There is no doubting, this was a remarkable performance. We look to the individual sectional times of the remainder of the field. Animal Kingdom, well off the early gallop, ran a dazzling second quarter-mile of 22.30 seconds (which was only the third-fastest such sectional in the race after Moonlight Cloud’s borderline frantic 21.93 seconds). Blocked for room when closing in on the main pack, the 2011 Kentucky Derby winner ran a final two furlongs in 22.54 seconds (fastest in the race by 0.20 seconds) and a final furlong in 11.29 seconds (fastest by 0.11 seconds). 

It is also worth noting that Aidan O’Brien trainee Excelebration covered 20 feet more than Wise Dan, but lost by just two lengths.  That extra ground coverage equates to roughly 2.4 lengths, less than his margin of defeat. 

Breeders' Cup Mile (G1) - Nov 3, 2012 - 1 Mile (Turf) - Santa Anita



HORSE

1/4

1/2

3/4

-

FINISH

FIN 1/8


Distance (ft)

Ft to
 Len

Actual
 Margin

TA Margin

1st

2

WISE DAN

23.75

22.56

22.69

-

22.77

11.40

 

5316

-

(1.5)

 

2nd

5

ANIMAL KINGDOM

24.41

22.30

22.83

-

22.54

11.29

 

5

0.6

1.5

0.9

3rd

3

OBVIOUSLY

23.48

22.60

22.71

-

23.40

11.86

 

15

1.8

2

0.2

4th

6

EXCELEBRATION

23.89

22.54

22.83

-

22.85

11.48

 

20

2.4

2

-0.4

5th

1

MR. COMMONS

24.02

22.49

22.74

-

23.05

11.68

 

-8

-0.9

3

3.9

6th

4

JERANIMO

24.89

22.63

22.59

-

22.74

11.63

 

2

0.2

4.5

4.3

7th

8

SUGGESTIVE BOY

23.62

22.56

22.83

-

23.84

12.15

 

35

4.1

5.75

1.6

8th

9

MOONLIGHT CLOUD

24.52

21.93

23.09

-

23.34

11.89

 

36

4.2

6.25

2.0

9th

7

WILLCOX INN

24.28

22.22

22.83

-

23.61

11.92

 

35

4.1

6.5

2.4


Offline mugshot

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« 2012-Nov-06, 07:02 PM Reply #510 »

Breeders’ Cup Mile (G1)

Wise Dan established a new course mark in the Breeders’ Cup Mile, lowering the record set by Atticus in 1997, and carrying 126 pounds in the effort (Atticus carried 117). There is no doubting, this was a remarkable performance. We look to the individual sectional times of the remainder of the field. Animal Kingdom, well off the early gallop, ran a dazzling second quarter-mile of 22.30 seconds (which was only the third-fastest such sectional in the race after Moonlight Cloud’s borderline frantic 21.93 seconds). Blocked for room when closing in on the main pack, the 2011 Kentucky Derby winner ran a final two furlongs in 22.54 seconds (fastest in the race by 0.20 seconds) and a final furlong in 11.29 seconds (fastest by 0.11 seconds). 

It is also worth noting that Aidan O’Brien trainee Excelebration covered 20 feet more than Wise Dan, but lost by just two lengths.  That extra ground coverage equates to roughly 2.4 lengths, less than his margin of defeat. 

Breeders' Cup Mile (G1) - Nov 3, 2012 - 1 Mile (Turf) - Santa Anita

HORSE

1/4

1/2

3/4

-

FINISH

FIN 1/8

Distance (ft)

Ft to Len

Actual Margin

TA Margin

1st

2

WISE DAN

23.75

22.56

22.69

-

22.77

11.40

 

5316

-

(1.5)

 

2nd

5

ANIMAL KINGDOM

24.41

22.30

22.83

-

22.54

11.29

 

5

0.6

1.5

0.9

3rd

3

OBVIOUSLY

23.48

22.60

22.71

-

23.40

11.86

 

15

1.8

2

0.2

4th

6

EXCELEBRATION

23.89

22.54

22.83

-

22.85

11.48

 

20

2.4

2

-0.4

5th

1

MR. COMMONS

24.02

22.49

22.74

-

23.05

11.68

 

-8

-0.9

3

3.9

6th

4

JERANIMO

24.89

22.63

22.59

-

22.74

11.63

 

2

0.2

4.5

4.3

7th

8

SUGGESTIVE BOY

23.62

22.56

22.83

-

23.84

12.15

 

35

4.1

5.75

1.6

8th

9

MOONLIGHT CLOUD

24.52

21.93

23.09

-

23.34

11.89

 

36

4.2

6.25

2.0

9th

7

WILLCOX INN

24.28

22.22

22.83

-

23.61

11.92

 

35

4.1

6.5

2.4


Great post Auth

Offline Mr ED

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« 2012-Nov-20, 08:11 AM Reply #511 »
On a previous post there was much discussion on the quality of Grandera and his participation in the 2002 Cox Plate. Whilst the winner - Northerly, is indeed a class act and the field one of the stongest that i can remember, Grandera was nowhere near the elite horses in Europe. There was Dalakhani, Sakee, High Chaparral, Rock of Gibralter, Sulamani, Falbrav etc., Considering both Sakee and Sulemani were higher in the Godolphin pecking order than Grandera, the comparison only sheds light on how much better the European contingent were at that time. This is not taking away the quality of both Northerly and Sunline, who i believe were very good race horses, but would they be able to match strides with some of those named?

Offline The Jackal

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« 2012-Nov-21, 07:51 PM Reply #512 »
Grandera sits comfortably amongst any of the horses you mention, at 10 furlongs actually superior to most of them.
The year he raced in the Cox Plate, he was the world champion racehorse of that year and had been in superb form.
By the following season, he had suffered the usual Godolphin demise and none of his performances were a true indication of his best work.

He was at the very top level in Europe, capable of of winning at Group 1 level in Singapore, but found the stiff rise in class of Hong Kong and Melbourne a bridge too far.

Offline Authorized

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« 2012-Nov-21, 08:11 PM Reply #513 »

Breeders’ Cup Mile (G1)

Wise Dan established a new course mark in the Breeders’ Cup Mile, lowering the record set by Atticus in 1997, and carrying 126 pounds in the effort (Atticus carried 117). There is no doubting, this was a remarkable performance. We look to the individual sectional times of the remainder of the field. Animal Kingdom, well off the early gallop, ran a dazzling second quarter-mile of 22.30 seconds (which was only the third-fastest such sectional in the race after Moonlight Cloud’s borderline frantic 21.93 seconds). Blocked for room when closing in on the main pack, the 2011 Kentucky Derby winner ran a final two furlongs in 22.54 seconds (fastest in the race by 0.20 seconds) and a final furlong in 11.29 seconds (fastest by 0.11 seconds). 

It is also worth noting that Aidan O’Brien trainee Excelebration covered 20 feet more than Wise Dan, but lost by just two lengths.  That extra ground coverage equates to roughly 2.4 lengths, less than his margin of defeat. 

4.5

Breeders' Cup Mile (G1) - Nov 3, 2012 - 1 Mile (Turf) - Santa Anita

HORSE

1/4

1/2

3/4

-

FINISH

FIN 1/8

Distance (ft)

Ft to Len

Actual Margin

TA Margin

1st

2

WISE DAN

23.75

22.56

22.69

-

22.77

11.40

 

5316

-

(1.5)

 

2nd

5

ANIMAL KINGDOM

24.41

22.30

22.83

-

22.54

11.29

 

5

0.6

1.5

0.9

3rd

3

OBVIOUSLY

23.48

22.60

22.71

-

23.40

11.86

 

15

1.8

2

0.2

4th

6

EXCELEBRATION

23.89

22.54

22.83

-

22.85

11.48

 

20

2.4

2

-0.4

5th

1

MR. COMMONS

24.02

22.49

22.74

-

23.05

11.68

 

-8

-0.9

3

3.9

6th

4

JERANIMO

24.89

22.63

22.59

-

22.74

11.63

 

2

0.2

4.3

7th

8

SUGGESTIVE BOY

23.62

22.56

22.83

-

23.84

12.15

 

35

4.1

5.75

1.6

8th

9

MOONLIGHT CLOUD

24.52

21.93

23.09

-

23.34

11.89

 

36

4.2

6.25

2.0

9th

7

WILLCOX INN

24.28

22.22

22.83

-

23.61

11.92

 

35

4.1

6.5

2.4


This makes for interesting reading Jackal.

Offline The Jackal

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« 2012-Nov-21, 09:14 PM Reply #514 »
You do realise the horse sat 1/1 all the way, did no work to get there either and still did not finish off.
You will be quite happy to post the same statistics for Zoffany in his abject US failures as well won't you?

Offline Authorized

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« 2012-Nov-21, 09:58 PM Reply #515 »
What ever biases you and I have Excelebration covered 6m more ground than the super talented winner.

pjf

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Offline specialweek

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« 2013-Mar-25, 12:10 PM Reply #517 »
Danedream, winner of the 2011 Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, has been confirmed in foal to Frankel.

The German filly was a surprise winner of the Longchamp feature but went on to claim the King George at Ascot last year, before an outbreak of swamp fever at her Cologne training base forced her to miss a repeat Arc bid, so she retired with five Group One successes to her name.

She is boarding at Newsells Park Stud in Hertfordshire, who tweeted: "Pleased to report that Danedream was scanned in foal to Frankel

Offline firezuki

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« 2013-Mar-25, 07:41 PM Reply #518 »
That colt/filly would be worth  ......   how much do you think?   :wacko:

Offline Authorized

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« 2013-Mar-26, 09:54 AM Reply #519 »
A typical stallion is thought to be doing his job if he gets 3% stakes winners and 80% winners in general.

For this bloke to get a pass mark he'd need 100% winners and 45% stakes winners.

Offline Authorized

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« 2013-Aug-01, 04:18 PM Reply #520 »


20 minutes worth of breath taking beauty

Offline Authorized

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« 2015-Jun-17, 01:18 AM Reply #521 »
Have they done a Ray Warren on Frankel ?

Embedded image permalink

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Jun-17, 02:03 AM Reply #522 »
Touchy subject mate. Don't mention it to Ray Hadley.

Offline Authorized

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« 2015-Jul-11, 10:47 AM Reply #523 »
Frankel fans will enjoy this - http://frankel.arqana.com/


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