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Offline j.r.b.

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O.P. « 2017-Apr-09, 01:15 AM »
Lloyd Williams may have missed out at Randwick today with The United States in the QEII and Assign in the non Sydney Cup, but he picked up a Group 3 at Leopardstown with Rekindling it the Ballysax Stakes.

Rekindling's by High Chaparral and trained by the very talented Joseph O'Brien. He led home a 2-3-4 from his equally talented father's stable.

The Ballysax is generally a pretty good Derby guide.
« Last Edit: 2017-Nov-07, 02:22 PM by j.r.b. »

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Apr-14, 09:48 AM Reply #1 »

Can Lloyd Williams win the Epsom Derby?

Michael Lynch 
Published: April 13, 2017 - 4:40PM

Flemington in the first week of November. There's no greater certainty than Lloyd Williams having a fancied runner – or several – in this country's greatest race, the Melbourne Cup.

Royal Ascot in June has seen the country's most famous owner taste success on the international stage, with his part-owned Order of St George dominating in the Ascot Gold Cup as recently as last year.

But could the Mount Macedon-based Williams be donning the top hat and tails for a spot in the winners' enclosure at Epsom after the most famous race in the world – The Derby –  in just a few months?

It's not beyond the realms of possibility after his blueblooded colt Rekindling sprung a 16-1 shock in Ireland last weekend when he made his seasonal reappearance in a Group 3 Derby trial over 2000 metres, the Ballysax Stakes at Leopardstown.

Williams is no stranger to Irish racecourses as he has owned a number of gallopers in partnership with the Coolmore empire, where they have been trained by Aidan O'Brien at Ballydoyle in County Tipperary.

What makes Rekindling unusual is that he is in the care of Aidan's 23-year-old son Joseph O'Brien, who gave up his unequal battle with the scales last year and retired as Irish champion jockey at the age of 22 to become a trainer.

He has not lacked for support and when the Coolmore-connected David Wachman surrendered his licence at the end of last season the then two-year-old Rekindling was one of a number of horses who found a new home with the fledgling trainer, and Williams was happy to lend his support. Rekindling was in fact Wachman's last runner as a trainer when he finished unplaced a Group 1 two-year-old race in France last October.

"Joseph has a number of horses for me and I am very enthusiastic about his future," Williams says.

"I have raced horses for over 50 years, and experience tells me that he is perfectly placed to reach the top."

Williams also has various horses in training with Aidan O'Brien, who was on the receiving end of Rekindling's success for the Australian and his son, as O'Brien senior saddled the second, third and fourth in the race behind Rekindling.

"I have known Aidan since his time as a jumping rider in the JP McManus days before he was at Ballydoyle," Williams reminisced. "JP (Ireland's leading owner of jump racing horses) is one of my very old friends."

And what of Rekindling? Could the son of High Chaparral, sire of Australian champion So You Think, go on to glory at Epsom and emulate his sire, who won both the English and Irish Derbies of 2002?

"The race has a history of producing good horses but Rekindling would need to step up in a race like the Dante Stakes (England's leading Derby trial run at York over 2100 metres in May) if he is to be a genuine chance," Williams says.

"Aidan's horses ran second, third and fourth and he likes them, so time will tell."

*Williams certainly has history on his side, as derby winners Galileo, High Chaparral and Harzand have all won the Ballysax in the past 16 years, with Ascot Gold Cup winners Yeats and Fame And Glory also getting on the honour roll in that period.


Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Apr-14, 09:49 AM Reply #2 »
REKINDLING (GB)Bay colt 2014 
High Chaparral
Bay 1999
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Brown 1954
Nearco
Lady Angela
1935
1944
4-r
14-c
Natalma
Bay 1957
Native Dancer
Almahmoud
1950
1947
5-f
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Bay 1968
Hail to Reason
Lalun
1958
1952
4-n
19-b
Special
Bay 1969
Forli
Thong
1963
1964
3-b
5-h
Kasora
Brown 1993
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Bay 1975
Mill Reef
Hardiemma
1968
1969
22-d
1-l
Delsy
Brown 1972
Abdos
Kelty
1959
1965
1-e
13-c
Kozana
Brown 1982
Kris
Chestnut 1976
Sharpen Up
Doubly Sure
1969
1971
5-i
2-o
Koblenza
Brown 1966
Hugh Lupus
Kalimara
1952
1960
19>
1-n
Sitara
Chestnut 1998
Salse
Bay 1985
Topsider
Bay 1974
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Drumtop
Bay 1966
Round Table
Zonah
1954
1958
2-f
5-h
Carnival Princess
Chestnut 1974
Prince John
Chestnut 1953
Princequillo
Not Afraid
1940
1948
1-b
14-f
Carnival Queen
Brown 1962
Amerigo
Circus Ring
1955
1941
1-p
16-g
Souk
Bay 1988
Ahonoora
Chestnut 1975
Lorenzaccio
Chestnut 1965
Klairon
Phoenissa
1952
1951
1-w
5-h
Helen Nichols
Chestnut 1966
Martial
Quaker Girl
1957
1961
2-e
1-m
Soumana
Bay 1979
Pharly
Chestnut 1974
Lyphard
Comely
1969
1966
17-b
9-f
Faizebad
Bay or brown 1962
Prince Taj
Floralie
1954
1954
9-c
21-a
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer3m x 4m

Offline j.r.b.

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« 2017-Jun-02, 10:05 AM Reply #3 »
Runs in the Derby on Saturday night, our time.

Offline j.r.b.

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« 2017-Nov-07, 02:28 PM Reply #4 »
It's a tribute to his very talented young trainer that this horse, an Epsom Derby chance in June, has been kept on the go and wins the Melbourne Cup 5 months later.

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Nov-07, 02:35 PM Reply #5 »
They are just outstanding trainers of racehorses whether be the O'Briens or most of these high class European trainers.

Offline j.r.b.

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« 2017-Nov-07, 02:52 PM Reply #6 »
Agreed.

And one or other of Aiden and Joseph will at some stage in the future get to train Tepin's offspring, after Coolmore paid US$8m for her today at Fasig Tipton (only second top price).

She's off to see Galileo.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Nov-07, 03:01 PM Reply #7 »
With the benefit of hindsight, this was the race

Group 1 2017 St Leger run on the 16th September over 2921m at Doncaster. Rekindling runs 4th.



The Anvil does a "Sir Isaac Newton" and sets it up for the stablemates. Rekindling comes from well back and it is a very creditable run for 4th behind the winner Capri who also won the Irish Derby.

He drops from the 57.5 kg under the set weights conditions to 51.5 kg in the Cup.

He also ran on well to beat Wicklow Brave with a 6 kg weight pull in another race. WB met him 4.5 kg better, drew well, but did nothing.

Marmelo loomed up but couldn't go on. Some of those French staying races remind me of the ones we have in Sydney - sit and sprint affairs.

Online JWesleyHarding

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« 2017-Nov-07, 04:31 PM Reply #8 »
Lloyd Williams may have missed out at Randwick today with The United States in the QEII and Assign in the non Sydney Cup, but he picked up a Group 3 at Leopardstown with Rekindling it the Ballysax Stakes.

Rekindling's by High Chaparral and trained by the very talented Joseph O'Brien. He led home a 2-3-4 from his equally talented father's stable.

The Ballysax is generally a pretty good Derby guide.

Would be interested to know the "edit" made 2 hours ago. :chin:

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Nov-07, 05:34 PM Reply #9 »

Offline j.r.b.

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« 2017-Nov-08, 07:54 AM Reply #10 »
Would be interested to know the "edit" made 2 hours ago. :chin:

Post's been there for 7 months, Jeff. Can't you pick it?

Online JWesleyHarding

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« 2017-Nov-08, 10:11 AM Reply #11 »
Post's been there for 7 months, Jeff. Can't you pick it?

Who knows what the edit was?

The original has been tampered with. :beer:
 
The original post could have been something along the lines of:-

This bloke's a  no-hoper. Won't run out of sight on a dark night.

Who knows?


Offline j.r.b.

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« 2017-Nov-08, 11:46 AM Reply #12 »
Who knows what the edit was?

The original has been tampered with. :beer:
 
The original post could have been something along the lines of:-

This bloke's a  no-hoper. Won't run out of sight on a dark night.

Who knows?

Gratifying to discover that you read my stuff with such avidity, Jeff.

There was a typo in "High".

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Nov-22, 11:54 AM Reply #13 »

The Wizard of Oz keen to make more magic happen as normal service is resumed

David Jennings chats to the trainer about a memorable Melbourne Cup success

Close your eyes and you are instantly brought to Ballydoyle.

"Better, worse or the same, John? Okay, one again. Evan, steady along. How is he moving, Emma? You go steady, Helen. Steady along to halfway and ask for a bit more after the second gap."

The voice sounds the same, the knowledge seems the same, the attention to detail is definitely the same and the results are starting to look the same but this is Owning, not Ballydoyle, and this is Joseph O'Brien, not Aidan.

It is the week after Rekindling gave us all another reason to cease calling him "Aidan's son" and the youngest ever Melbourne Cup-winning trainer has the window of his Range Rover rolled down and is politely giving instructions to the second lot. A few minutes later and they gallop by, each one earning a longer stare than the one before. 

"Okay, John?" "Yeah, very good, Joseph." "Okay, Evan?" "All good, Joseph." "Okay, Emma?" “Very good, Joseph." "Okay, Helen?" "He felt good this morning, Joseph." Never let an interview get in the way of a morning's work.

The horses are being hosed down so it is time for talking. The first question to be thrown at the 24-year-old is to describe how good 2017 has been? Could he put into words how amazing these last 12 months have been? To win a Melbourne Cup so early in his career? Big mistake.

"To be honest, David, we could've had a better year," he replies, to a gasp from the quiz-master. Surely not? "It's true. We had a good year, and I fully understand how lucky I am and really appreciate everybody who has made it happen, but we could have had a better year.

"That isn't me being modest or anything like that. There is no doubt in my mind that we could've had a better year, we could've had more winners, we could have done better."

What constitutes better?

"I don't set goals. When I was riding I never set goals either. I never said that if I don't ride 100 winners it is a bad year or anything like that. I always just try to do the best I can with what we have. We have had more than 100 winners this calendar year, but we need to have more next year. What was good enough last year is not going to be good enough next year. You need to keep improving all the time."

This is coming from a 24-year-old who has just trained the winner of the Melbourne Cup. Wonder where he got such high standards from?

Melbourne was mesmerised by Joseph O'Brien. For someone so young to win their richest and greatest race. For someone so young to conduct themselves so professionally before, during and after the event. For someone so young to have come so far in such a short space of time. The wallabies were spellbound.

"The thing that shocked me most was the magnitude of it all," begins O'Brien as he reflects on Rekindling's stunning success. "It's incredible how far across the world it goes. I got texts from people telling me 'well done' who wouldn't have had a clue that the Derby was on in June or anything like that.

"There were people who wouldn't watch a horse race from one year to the next who got in touch, that's how big it is. I even got a tweet from the President of Ireland. There were so many tweets I couldn't even get around to reading them all.

"I tried to take it all in at the time as much as I could. You can never expect to win a race like the Melbourne Cup again any time soon so I realised at the time that I needed to try to soak it all in. I enjoyed it as best as I could.

"I didn't realise I would have to speak after it and, I have to admit, that was the most nervous part. Having to speak to everyone was the hardest thing of all. I never get nervous during races. Even during the Melbourne Cup, I was never nervous watching it. It was the bit afterwards that was nerve-wracking. Like how many people are watching me being interviewed? Thousands? Millions? I just needed to try and hold everything together."

O'Brien held it together brilliantly despite the magnitude of the occasion and so too did Rekindling. 

"We always knew he was the right type of horse for a Melbourne Cup. He was not too hard to train so that meant that we wouldn't have to do too much with him in quarantine. We obviously knew that he stays, he relaxes well too and he had enough pace to win a Group race over a mile and a quarter.

"He had all the right credentials but originally we were thinking it might be an option for him in 2018. Then, after his run in the St Leger at Doncaster, Nick [Williams] felt that we should go this year. I was 100 per cent behind him when he said that and away we went.

"He's the easiest horse in the place to train. We just kept him fresh all year. He ran every month but his form never tailed off so we knew we were doing something right. He's very small and light but, as the year went on, he was getting stronger and stronger.

"He was only 420kgs at the start of the year. You have no idea how light that is for a horse. He just has a very good attitude and he obviously has a big engine. It's as simple as that really."

There are still those who put Rekindling's famous triumph down to Aidan. They believe Joseph is playing the part of copycat and plagiarising his father word for word. The truth is that such a theory couldn't be further from the truth.

"I did ring Dad to have a small chat about Rekindling but it's very hard for him to give advice because our routine here is so, so different to his in Ballydoyle.

"The facilities are so different so you cannot have the same routine. What Rekindling was doing in quarantine in Australia was very, very different to what Dad's horse [Johannes Vermeer] was doing.

"After a couple of days down there, the lads wanted to gallop Rekindling on grass every day. Mark, MJ and Shay did not want to go on the all-weather any more. Those were the type of decisions which the lads made and I was happy that it was what they wanted to do.

"They said he feels better on the grass, so he went on grass. I hadn't seen the horse for five weeks – Mark sent me videos of him working every day.

"When I first came here, I was still riding and we had eight or ten horses owned by my Mum [Annemarie]. The routine we used to do with those horses isn't even remotely close to what we do with the horses now. I have constantly changed things. We were doing too much with them at the start, then we were doing too little with them and, right now, we think we have found the right routine which works. You vary it slightly for different horses."

Whatever the routine now is, it is certainly working. Although the 'if it's not broken, don't fix it' idiom is not heard around here. Things are always being fixed, even if they are working perfectly. 

So, what is the perfect year for Joseph O'Brien?

"I don't want to sound cocky here but I want to be competing at the very top, both on the Flat and with jumpers," he replies. 

Is that achievable, I ask? Stupid question.

"Why not! I really don't see why not."

Why not, indeed. When your name is Joseph O'Brien you seem to be able to pull rabbits out of hats on every stage you step up on to. Even the biggest one of all at Flemington.

JOSEPH ON....

What next for Rekindling
"He's coming back to me. He'll stay in Australia for a while on a little holiday but he'll come back to me in January. The Ascot Gold Cup will probably be his ultimate target. If we got a good draw there, it's a race which could suit him very well. He settles well and stays, so it would be the race for him."

Australian racing
"There's very good prize-money and it's competitive racing. If I ever have a horse which I think is capable of running well down there, I'd have no hesitation in sending one down there again. I'd be all for it. We were unbelievably well looked after down there by Racing Victoria and Lloyd and Nick Williams. I really did enjoy every bit of it and tried to take it in as much as I could."

His winter team
"My best horses are novice hurdlers. The likes of Le Richebourg, Early Doors and a few others. Whether they're good enough to compete at the top, I don't know. Only time will tell. Being realistic about it, it's going to be about three or four years before I have a proper team of jumpers."


Offline tontonan

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« 2017-Nov-22, 09:36 PM Reply #14 »
What next for Rekindling
"He's coming back to me. He'll stay in Australia for a while on a little holiday but he'll come back to me in January. The Ascot Gold Cup will probably be his ultimate target. If we got a good draw there, it's a race which could suit him very well. He settles well and stays, so it would be the race for him."


I was tinking why it would be dat in a race of two and a half miles the hoss would be needing a good draw when the Gold Cup only has a dozen runners at a stretch.

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Nov-23, 09:52 AM Reply #15 »
I think it is a phobia all trainers have.

The draw will play very little role in the outcome.


Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Nov-23, 09:58 AM Reply #16 »
I was tinking why it would be dat in a race of two and a half miles the hoss would be needing a good draw when the Gold Cup only has a dozen runners at a stretch.

Big Orange beat 13.
Order Of St George beat 16
Trip To Paris beat 11
Leading Light beat 12

So on average you are not far off Tontonan.

If all the great stayers of Europe make the race next year it will be the greatest Gold Cup in history.


Offline wily ole dog

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« 2017-Nov-23, 10:29 AM Reply #17 »
Whats your wish list for a field of 12 ?

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Nov-23, 10:37 AM Reply #18 »
Ill have to get back to you but the first 4 or 5 from this years St Leger are a start.

Offline ianb

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« 2017-Nov-23, 10:46 AM Reply #19 »
What odds at least one or even 2 of those 4 or 5 have already been bought by the Williams Training Establishment and will head to Australia without another run in Europe.

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Nov-23, 10:57 AM Reply #20 »
About 1000/1 .  :sweat:

Capri
Crystal Ocean
Stradivarius
Rekindling
Coronet
Count Octave

Older horses

Torcedor
Order Of St George
Big Orange
Vazirabad


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Nov-24, 06:27 PM Reply #21 »
About 1000/1 .  :sweat:

Capri
Crystal Ocean
Stradivarius
Rekindling
Coronet
Count Octave

Older horses

Torcedor
Order Of St George
Big Orange
Vazirabad

Did he buy all those horses?

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Nov-24, 09:46 PM Reply #22 »
No.


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