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Everything Jockeys - Jockey - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Everything Jockeys  (Read 215862 times)

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Mark

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« 2010-Jul-22, 07:59 PM Reply #25 »
Munce - is he legally a dwarf or..?

Jim Pike

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« 2010-Jul-23, 01:07 AM Reply #26 »
Richo you stated that jockeys who ride short couldn't wear spurs because they would be ineffective, I only pointed out Chris Munce to prove how long you ride is irrelevant,
I gather you are a horse trainer? I was talking to a famous trainer once many years ago and I mentioned another equally famous training contemporary and he said re his contemporaries horse and I quote " that is not the way to train a Horse" now if you look at horses trained by these 2 trainers their horses looked noting alike and yet their results were stunningly similar over a long period of time,
My point is that no matter how you do something there is always another way of doing it, you cannot say someone is wrong because you do not agree, like believing in God for example, I don't know how anyone can believe in God like it is an indisputable fact but conversely I do not  see how anyone can say there is No God for the same reason, if you do not know (and in this instance no one does) you have to sit on the fence until there is proof either way! To say Spurs are ineffective you are making a statement of fact that you do not have any evidence at all to back up your statement, I have seen them work when jockeys ride short,(and I use Munce as an example) that is a fact!

Offline Authorized

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« 2010-Jul-23, 03:34 PM Reply #27 »
I can not imagine spurs slamming into my ribs being a pleasant massage.

Offline Big Wheel

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« 2010-Jul-25, 12:34 PM Reply #28 »
Richo you stated that jockeys who ride short couldn't wear spurs because they would be ineffective, I only pointed out Chris Munce to prove how long you ride is irrelevant,
I gather you are a horse trainer? I was talking to a famous trainer once many years ago and I mentioned another equally famous training contemporary and he said re his contemporaries horse and I quote " that is not the way to train a Horse" now if you look at horses trained by these 2 trainers their horses looked noting alike and yet their results were stunningly similar over a long period of time,
My point is that no matter how you do something there is always another way of doing it, you cannot say someone is wrong because you do not agree, like believing in God for example, I don't know how anyone can believe in God like it is an indisputable fact but conversely I do not  see how anyone can say there is No God for the same reason, if you do not know (and in this instance no one does) you have to sit on the fence until there is proof either way! To say Spurs are ineffective you are making a statement of fact that you do not have any evidence at all to back up your statement, I have seen them work when jockeys ride short,(and I use Munce as an example) that is a fact!
Bullshit, spurs are useless if the jock is riding Short, Because the Boot is level with the packing and is not touching
the horses ribs etc, Only Benefit is if the jock pulls his feet out of the irons behind the Barriers and boots it in the Guts!
Now THAT'S a Fact JP

Jim Pike

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« 2010-Jul-26, 02:02 AM Reply #29 »
mate big wheel they do work you do not have a clue, Oliver doesn't ride long and neither does Newitt or Symonds, Munce rides very short, you are one of the Murrihy Know it alls, I would rather put my faith in the Top Jockeys who use them, somehow I think they would have a much better idea than you and me, they think they work or they wouldn't bother using them!!
In saying that I do agree with you as far as the use of them behind the barriers (and in trackwork)goes,
Now I have stated it before and I will say it again!!
I am totally against the use of spurs and think they should be totally banned and treated like being caught with an electrical device, they are cruel no matter what else you think about them!   
I just think if a Jockey is going to put them on on some horses and off on others we should be informed when they cahenge, there should be Jockey gear Changes
another "gear Change" that I would like to see listed is what vet was treating each trainers horses, I think this would be a revelation

Offline Big Wheel

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« 2010-Jul-26, 09:43 AM Reply #30 »
Mate i do have a clue, and Jocks ride that short now days that they don't even kick
when riding a horse out,  Watch the close ups, they ride with there toe in the iron
and DON'T kick even when riding hands and heels

Offline richo

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« 2010-Jul-26, 09:51 AM Reply #31 »
don't worry about bw i just realized i've spent 26 years training horses and according to j pike i know nothing.

Offline Big Wheel

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« 2010-Jul-26, 10:45 AM Reply #32 »
Tell me about it,

Offline MagiC~*

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« 2010-Jul-26, 11:05 AM Reply #33 »
JP,

I think BW, probably does know, I think he may have been quite an accomplished jockey in his day, not so long ago ;)

If a jockey is going to wear spurs, he will drop his lengths, and ride longer, so he can ride the horse out hands and heals, something that is almost a lost art with jockeys riding so short these days :chin:


Offline Eelsman

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« 2010-Jul-26, 12:05 PM Reply #34 »
Neville Voight use to kick the s**t out of them years ago, with spurs!

Jim Pike

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« 2010-Jul-26, 03:53 PM Reply #35 »
You people are totally missing the point, it is not about what I think or what you think! If Nash and Damian etc,   think they work I want to know! the leading Jockey in both Sydney (Nash)and Melbourne (Luke Nolen) think they work, or do you think they are stupid? Of course Richo you would know better!! I think not!!
Racing is about information! You cannot have to much information, you obviously have very little!
if they are going to give us all the gear changes most of which make very little difference to a result of a race it is about what we want to read into it that will entice you to have a bet,
Richo maybe you are one that has an ulterior motive, you actually use them on your horses but don't want to tell anyone, what other possible reason could you have for not wanting us to know? if they don't work why would you care if we know about them??

Offline richo

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« 2010-Jul-26, 04:10 PM Reply #36 »
do you wear a clown suit jp and if i want use spurs on a horse for whatever reason i wouldn't use a jock with his heels up his arse because it won't work . Jp what do you do in the industry you must be pretty high profile with all your knowledge or are you just another grandstand jockey or trainer, experts in this game are a dime a dozen.

Offline kicker

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« 2010-Jul-26, 04:35 PM Reply #37 »
Interesting discussion  emthup .

How do you determine their effectiveness :what: Has someone kept stats on jockeys riding with or without spurs?

If they are as effective as some suggest, apart from some trainers not allowing them, why do these jockeys only wear them on certain rides & not all?

In the miriad of factors that determine the result of a horse race, how can we determine if the wearing of spurs was the difference between winning & losing?

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« 2010-Jul-26, 04:39 PM Reply #38 »
I don't imagine that Spurs tickle.

There is absolutely no good reason ever given as to why they are not apart of the gear changes.

They probably should be banned.

Offline richo

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« 2010-Jul-26, 05:50 PM Reply #39 »
spurs are good for a lot of reasons and not for ripping the ribs out of horses. young horses who want to hang a spur will help straighten the horse without the jock having to let go with one hand to use the whip . Ive had lots of horses race with spurs never had one come back with a mark on them lets face it they are only dummy spurs there's no rollers on them.

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« 2010-Jul-26, 10:14 PM Reply #40 »
What is it about Spurs that keeps a young horse running straight ?

Surely your very reasoning there richo is enought of a reason for them to be part of the gear changes ?

Offline el zoro

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« 2010-Jul-27, 09:57 AM Reply #41 »
Well I've never really taken notice if a jockey is riding with spurs or not.
I would think a trainer would have to tell the jockey to wear them to assist a certain type of horse. Obviously they must do something or they wouldn't get used.

I would be suprised if a jockey can just decide to wear them one day without anyone knowing & then just decide to not wear them next day OR to wear them without trainers consent. 

Offline MagiC~*

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« 2010-Jul-27, 10:19 AM Reply #42 »
I would be suprised if a jockey can just decide to wear them one day without anyone knowing & then just decide to not wear them next day OR to wear them without trainers consent.

This is, how it is I think EZ, probably not ideal, but as i have said before, the jockey can wear spurs, with out the trainers consent if he wants, and with out stewards permission, as far as I know.

Maybe something does need to change.

Maybe one of the few jocks we have on this forum, could clarify for us  :what:

Offline richo

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« 2010-Jul-27, 10:46 AM Reply #43 »
some jocks wear them all the time some rarely it's the trainers option really.one day i legged a jock up on one of my good horses and asked why have you got spurs on, he said i allways wear them, i said ok but if you touch him before you get in the gates they'll be picking you up off the turf and he can buck lol. he took them off .

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« 2010-Jul-27, 01:42 PM Reply #44 »
Your last two posts indicate that Spurs do do something, Richo.

Offline richo

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« 2010-Jul-27, 05:27 PM Reply #45 »
they are another tool in the training cabinet and boy do you need them like all different bits and gear it all helps

Offline Crimson

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« 2010-Jul-27, 06:55 PM Reply #46 »
Richo is correct. Spurs, and they are blunt dummy spurs can aid a horse with direction and
staightness if  used correctly.

We are not talking rodeo spurs here with big ugly wheels on them. As a former Equestrian Coach,
 these spurs are used to engage forward movement and to aid lateral movement.
 If you look at the Grand Prix dressage
riders they use them to assist the horse with complicated movements, as piaffe etc, although these movements are
 natural to a horse left to their own devices anyway. Just look at them prancing around in paddocks rather happily.

I will investigate further into the use where jockeys are concerned.

Also, it is a fact that spurs are classified as an 'artificial aid' meaning that just like a whip is, it is to help with
the education of horses. So the question now lies re jockey gear changes..... if a whip is an artificial aid as spurs are
does this warrant an explanation? They are both classified in the same range.

Hope this helps boys and girls....

« Last Edit: 2010-Jul-27, 06:59 PM by Crimson »

Offline MagiC~*

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« 2010-Jul-27, 07:14 PM Reply #47 »
if a whip is an artificial aid as spurs are
does this warrant an explanation? They are both classified in the same range.

Thanks Crimson,

You make a good point, regarding the whip being the same as spurs, it is a jockeys tool, and shouldn't have anything to do with a horses gear changes.

It is more to do with a jockeys style of riding, than anything else IMHO  :/

Offline Crimson

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« 2010-Jul-27, 07:18 PM Reply #48 »
It is interesting Magic as you know.... excessive use of the whip etc... how the do gooders of the world havent looked
at excessive use of spurs... I doubt it happens anyway, but these do-gooders dont look at the whole picture.

Offline Crimson

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« 2010-Jul-27, 07:30 PM Reply #49 »
I can only assume until I ask the question that spurs are used on horses that require
a little help. Not for speed, but for as Richo said....horses that hang out or in. It is quite
normal for a spur jab (not hard of course) to help a horse with direction. And to be honest
with all the hype on whips at the moment (and they are an educational tool too from the
day horses have been ridden) why not use a spur if a horse wants to run into the rail??


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