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Horrendous Hoof Deformation - Jockey - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Horrendous Hoof Deformation  (Read 5315 times)

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Offline equethyws

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O.P. « 2007-Dec-27, 03:59 PM »
Hi,

I was given a copy of the Racing NSW Monthy Magazine (Aug.) cover. As I am involved in equine rehab. I am always interested in looking at hoof form.

I was horrified at the hoof form shown on this horse on the cover.  It has major problems with "hoof deformation" in both front feet that could have been easily reversed and yet no one has done this, instead they have used a corrective shoe on the worst hoof that is actually crushing the heel which will cause the horse to avoid heel first landings and try to maintain disastrous toe first stride landings. The other hoof they have shod normally but not addressed the other issues screaming out for help there.

The horse is actually set up for failure in the not so distant future as it will tear its musculo-skeeltal system apart if left to work like this.  Seems such a shame as with physiologically correct hoof form it will have better co-ordination and remain injury free.  Left like this it is it is fighting its own biomechanics for every step.

After seeing this cover I asked a friend who works with racing TB's to send me pics of their hooves in general, and I see major hoof deformation in just about every one. I wondered why the owners and trainers of these horses, who spend so much money trying to breed the perfect speed machine and then spend more time and money getting it race fit and qualified, then allow it to be destroyed early in its career by hoof deformation. 

All through the other disciples there is a sea change happening in equine hoof care as this knowledge from the latest reserach is out there now and yet in the TB industry this new information seems to be not filtering through.

I wondered why?

Cheers Chris

 

Offline MagiC~*

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« 2007-Dec-28, 06:28 AM Reply #1 »
After seeing this cover I asked a friend who works with racing TB's to send me pics of their hooves in general, and I see major hoof deformation in just about every one.

Thanks for your input in our forum equethyws , i find this information to be of great benifit due to my involvement with the racing side of the TB.

Any chance of posting some pics of what you are talking about so we can better understand what you are trying to describe ??

Cheers

Offline equethyws

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« 2008-Jan-01, 12:35 PM Reply #2 »
Hi,

Sorry for the delay with this reply.  I will post a pic of some three year olds coming back from track work that was sent to me to demonstrate what I see everywhere in racing T.B's hooves. I hope this pic appears on the post as I haven't used this type of forum before.

This hoof deformation is not due to the breeding or the conformation, it is the hoof reacting to the abnormal stresses being applied to it and deforming under the weight of the horse.  For a hoof to retain its integrity it must remain within certain parameters or it will just deform in response to loading in the wrong places. What we are now seeing is the huge flow on of problems that come with hoof deformation previously not understood and not able to be dealt with by convention farriery techniques.

I have marked on the pic the obvious signs of hoof deformation already present in these hooves.  It is such a shame as already this young horse is now working at odds with its biomechanics.  It will most certainly have caudal hoof pain now and it will be endeavouring to do toe first stride landings  when worked with all the secondary problems to tendons and muscles that these cause. 

Unless this hoof deformation is addressed it will never reach its potential and will probably break down before its career ever gets property started.

Cheers Chris

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Thanks for your input in our forum equethyws , i find this information to be of great benifit due to my involvement with the racing side of the TB.

Any chance of posting some pics of what you are talking about so we can better understand what you are trying to describe ??

Cheers

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« Last Edit: 2008-Jan-01, 01:25 PM by MagiC~* »

Offline MagiC~*

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« 2008-Feb-07, 07:20 AM Reply #3 »
Hi equethyws,

Couple of questions,

what can be done for a horse with soft soles, and what is the main cause of it ?

And what you are basically saying is, it is best to stand a horse up more by having less toe and more heel .. correct ?

Basically the reason i am asking is i have a horse with constant feet problems ... he is very susceptible to soft soles, not sure if it has anything to do with the wet weather or more to do with the way i feed. The horse is constantly on founder guard to prevent laminitis which i think he may have a predisposition too, but even being on founder guard constantly he still suffers problems.

Cheers

Offline equethyws

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« 2008-Feb-07, 09:24 AM Reply #4 »
Hi equethyws,

Couple of questions,

what can be done for a horse with soft soles, and what is the main cause of it ?

And what you are basically saying is, it is best to stand a horse up more by having less toe and more heel .. correct ?

Basically the reason i am asking is i have a horse with constant feet problems ... he is very susceptible to soft soles, not sure if it has anything to do with the wet weather or more to do with the way i feed. The horse is constantly on founder guard to prevent laminitis which i think he may have a predisposition too, but even being on founder guard constantly he still suffers problems.

Cheers


Hi You basically have a two part question here.  Will do my best to anwer both. Grab a cuppa its long!

Sorry to hear you are having problems but you are not alone.  Soft soles, absecessing and stone bruising are signs of deeper issues within the hoof. They cannot be addressed alone or by using additives to the feed.

Most racing TB's are continually suffering low grade chronic laminitis so founder guarde is good but it won't cure the problem as the reason for the laminitis needs to be addressed to not the symptoms.  Nor will applying chemicals to the sole, some farriers still advise the use of formalin on soles .. Never Never use this as it is a preservative and will be absorbed by the sole and may even reach far into the hoof to the pedal bone and can cause it to develop necrotic tissue (dead tissue) which is a disaster.

Unless the horse is constantly standing in water or its own pee, and I mean for weeks and weeks then the sole shouldn't be soft unless there is an underlying reason causing it to be so.

Thin soles are an indication of the health of the whole hoof and always indicative of other areas that will also be compromised too.  What is more serious is that the digital cushion above the sole will also be thin and comprised of fatty tissues now instead of fibro cartilage as it should be, and this fibro cartilage in the digital cushion is one of the major structures that allows the horse to be comfortable doing heel first stride landings which dissipate concussion at ground level and stop it impacting on bones, joints and tendons.

The sole is produced by a network of blood from the sole corium (a vast network of capillaries specially adapted for producing sole horn)that lay under the pedal bone. It grows downwards and forwards towards the toe and exfoliates with ground contact. It should be naturally thick and be gererated continually so that growth equals wear. In high performance barefoot hooves it is. I will post a pic that you might like to see of the sole of an endurance horse taken directly after an 80 klm endurance ride done without hoof boots.

The hoof walls were never designed by nature to be the major weight bearing structures and in shoes this is the role that we have imposed on them.  The sole is supposed to play a role in weight bearing with every stride, as is the frog, and when the hoof is lifted off the ground with shoes (called peripheral loading by the researchers) this causes changes to the way that the blood circulates through the hoof and causes it to be shunted abnormally around in alternate pathways. 

Because of the abnormal extreme pressures generated in the hoof capsule from being suspended off the ground there are many debilitating changes to the circulation and sole growth suffers greatly from this. Often what thought of as stone bruises are actually areas where pressure has caused a rupture of the capillaries in that area. Its a marvel of biological engineering that the hoof can re-route blood the way it does, or our horses hooves would drop off, but it happens at a price as its a healthy blood flow that brings oxygen and nutrients to the tissues of the hoof but without optimum circulation growth slows and changes happen.

Getting thick soles requires the hoof to be returned to physiolgically correct functioning. In other words if they don't use it they loose it. 

The horse needs to have a correct trim and access to movement over varying surfaces to stimulate growth so that the various part of the hoof that are now non functional can again play a role in the way the hoof functions.

The sticking point is that the horse needs to have his shoes removed and to have a correct barefoot trim applied. Most trainers will balk at this but unless they consider it permanent rehab. is impossible.  A physiologically correct trim needs to be applied every four weeks.  This is not the same as the trim a farrier applies and its not just filing the foot flat as if it were to be shod afterwards. If you do file the foot flat, the horse, because of the thin soles and dysfunctional digital cushion will just be very very sore and not want to move.  Movement is a huge key to this rehab. process so if you make them sore and they don't want to move you are wasting your time.  What is worse is I see farriers do this and they say "well I told you he couldn't go without shoes" as they have unknowlingly removed architecture from the hoof that the horse needs to remain sound!

For your 2nd question:

I am sure that your horse will have low heels too as the usual scenario is long toes, low heels, thin soles.

To re-establish robust hooves and a horse that moves in harmony with its natural biomechanics, they need to be returned to their physologically correct positions.  To do this the leverage forces need to be removed from the toes.  Long toes drag sole forward and keep them thin.  Toe length also needs to be adjusted so that the hoof form is bought back to re-establish the natural fulcrum point directly under the centre of the pedal bone.

But it needs to be done over a few correct trims so not to make the horse sore.  There are living landmarks that allow you to look at the underside of the hoof and to determine exactly how far the hoof has moved forward. 
to what position you bring back the toe, they are as exact as if you exrayed the horse and a professional trimmer can do this.  Sadly there is no quick fix for these problems and to recover permanently the source of these issues need to be removed, i.e. the shoes.  But, if left they will just continue to happen as the health of the hoof continues to degenerate.

The picture is of Duo Park Ume an endurance horse who was one of the first horses in Australia to compete barefoot. She was diagnosed by two top vet hospitals as having bone spurs on the extensor processes of the pedal bone and a 90 percent tendon tear.  Her owner is now a professional trimmer and says that she also had the other isues that most shod horses have, including thin soles.  She was told by vets that she should be retired as a brood more as she would never again be sound. 

The picture was taken after one of her first barefoot endurance rides.  She as even done a 160 klm endurnace ride barefoot, no boots.  As I said in healthy hooves sole thickness and sole wear is not an issue.







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Offline MagiC~*

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« 2008-Feb-07, 11:08 AM Reply #5 »
Thanks equethyws been a great read, just to give you a little history of the horse in question , i have only had him for 5 runs, but been suffering from the same feet issue's that i believe he had with his previous trainer (he has worn glue on shoes as a gear change when he was a younger horse apparently).

For your 2nd question:

I am sure that your horse will have low heels too as the usual scenario is long toes, low heels, thin soles.

I have to give my farriers credit in that they seem to be trying to do a great job of standing him up correctly and dragging the shoe back to what i believe is the correct position as the horse has a tendancy to dish out in the fronts of his feet (My farrier also trys to shoe him every 4 weeks to stop the feet getting out of shape and long in the toe), which i believe is the bigger issue as i think the farrier is doing his job correctly to my knowledge.

So aside from shoeing the horse correctly would the problem be attributed to high grain diets even with being fed founder guard ?

To give you the full history of the horse since he has been in my care, he got fed identically to the rest of the horses we have, gradually increased the grain as his work increased, but after three weeks i noticed his feet dishing out from the corenet band which is when i put him on founder guard, but may have been to late as his feet not long after went tender and his soles went soft, i continued to feed him founder guard and went to the extremes of putting him on straw but because he was a box walker he would walk in his sloppy manure and it would sit in his soles and make his feet softer, so i bought him some boots which seemed to help by keeping his feet dry and stopping the sole pressure.

Because the boots where working so well i put him back on sawdust with his boots and his feet came really good, his pulse disappeared completely, but because he was walking his box so much he wore his boots out which then got me to thinking why he was box walking, so i came to the conclusion he might have stomach ulcers and i put him on treatment for that, which worked great, and he started doing really well and even stopped his walking the box.

Anyway in the mean time my old farrier who helped fix him left and we got a new one and when he shod him he made the mistake of not standing him up correctly and his feet fell to pieces again, so i replaced him with my current farrier who has only given him the one shoeing and stood him back up again, but i have now run back into these soft sole problems ... he seems to think it has to do with all the rain we have had over the last 3 weeks and working him in the sloshy sand, and also the horse having the sort of feet that will always be suseptible to having problems.

But i am thinking it might run deeper then just him being shod correctly and was thinking of changing his feed , but am not really sure what too, or if that is even the right solution.

Basically i am at the point where i want to start from scratch but would like to know the best way to go about it ??

Cheers
« Last Edit: 2008-Feb-07, 11:14 AM by MagiC~* »

Offline equethyws

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« 2008-Feb-07, 12:49 PM Reply #6 »
Hi,

I will put some comments in after yours.  I will highlight them so they stand out not because I am shouting ;-)


I have to give my farriers credit in that they seem to be trying to do a great job of standing him up correctly and dragging the shoe back to what i believe is the correct position as the horse has a tendancy to dish out in the fronts of his feet (My farrier also trys to shoe him every 4 weeks to stop the feet getting out of shape and long in the toe), which i believe is the bigger issue as i think the farrier is doing his job correctly to my knowledge.


Your farriers are providing traditional hoof care exactly as they have been trained to do.  I have no issue with his work, he is doing exactly what he has been trained to do and probably doing it to the very best of his ability but now that we know more about how hooves function we know why traditional hoof care is not successful. This new knowledge about hoof care allows us to head off serious problems before they occur and you have some clear warning signs that this horse is in serious trouble.


The dishing at the front of the hoof wall is due to the weakened laminar connection at the front of the hoof. The horse already has a degree of laminitis happening.

As soon as the laminar connection between hoof wall and pedal bone starts to weaken, leverage from long toes causes it to bend in the middle of the front wall.  This bend also puts pressure on the toe at the ground level forcing it outwards and stretching it away from the front of the pedal bone every time the horse weights that hoof.  Imagine cutting up a small bucket to the shape of a slanted cone and then turning it upside down. Basically you have a hoof shape.  If the bucket walls are short then it takes a ton of effort to distort it. You can almost stand on it before it collapes.  If you make the angle of the front wall of the bucket greater so that there is more leverage at the front then it buckles in the middle and folds outwards, and the back shorter section folds inwards and under.  This is what is happening to your horse's hoof form.

In a physiologically correct hoof there is no pressure at the front as the hoof wall is short and has a rounded breakover at the toe. Horses with this hoof form can withstand sub clinical bouts of laminitis as there is no leverage to pull the front of the hoof capsule away from the pedal bone and the heels are strong and support the back of the hoof. (like the short bucket).

In deformed shod feet because they become too long in front and the whole hoof capsule moves fowards and the shoe prevents a natural breakover from wearing where it needs to be, it and forces the horse's weight to pass to the very end of the foot before they can lift off.  The leverage at gound level pulls the weakened laminar connection apart at the toe. So if there is any sub clinical laminitis brewing there it speeds up the whole process.  The visible evidence of this is a wider white stretched line at the front of the hoof than at the back where the heel buttresses are. Have a close look at it next time you have the horse shoeless.
 


So aside from shoeing the horse correctly would the problem be attributed to high grain diets even with being fed founder guard ?


There is no "correct shoeing"  where are just stages of hoof deformation when horses are shod.  There is a scale used to identify it and it starts at minus 1 and goes to minus 5.  Most racing t.b.'s are at about a minus 3 and heading for minus 4 if they stay sound long enough.  Founder guard despite what the name suggests is not a wonder drug. It helps but it won't prevent founder if the other contributing factors are not dealt with too.

Horses are foragers whose stomachs are meant to constantly have high volumes of cellulose material travelling through them this is what keeps them healthy.  Grain changes the chemistry of the gut, especially when it is given in large meals a couple of times a day as is done with stabled horses, and it produces acids in the hind gut that promote laminitis.  Founder guard helps but its the diet and way the horse is kept that is the cause and also the cause of the ulcers.


To give you the full history of the horse since he has been in my care, he got fed identically to the rest of the horses we have, gradually increased the grain as his work increased, but after three weeks i noticed his feet dishing out from the corenet band which is when i put him on founder guard, but may have been to late as his feet not long after went tender and his soles went soft, i continued to feed him founder guard and went to the extremes of putting him on straw but because he was a box walker he would walk in his sloppy manure and it would sit in his soles and make his feet softer, so i bought him some boots which seemed to help by keeping his feet dry and stopping the sole pressure.

You have a horse just balancing on the edge of full blown founder where the pedal bone comes through the sole.  It will only take stress from going back to work, or prolonged feed problems to push him over the edge. I would suggest you take him off all grain right now and put him on Speedibeet. He is obvsiosly one of those horses who cannot tolerate a high grain diet and it is translating to laminitis. 

Because of the weakened laminar connection his hooves are even more susceptable to hoof deformation at present so all leverage forces need to be removed as soon as possible.  You don't want anything pulling the front of the hoof capsule away from the pedal bone or the laminar connection becoming so weak that he develops a "sinker" which is where the entire pedal bone just sinks down in the hoof capsule. 


Because the boots where working so well i put him back on sawdust with his boots and his feet came really good, his pulse disappeared completely, but because he was walking his box so much he wore his boots out which then got me to thinking why he was box walking, so i came to the conclusion he might have stomach ulcers and i put him on treatment for that, which worked great, and he started doing really well and even stopped his walking the box.

Ulcers are a common problem in horses on high grain diets who are also confined. Box walking is a sign of stress.  Horses suffer the same type of stress that we do from confinement and it translates to ulcers. You haven't said if you removed the shoes or just put the boots over them so I can't say much about the boots. The manufacturers do say that they are not meant to go over shoes and there are really tough ones called Epics that you can use that will last better but they definatley won't go over shoes.

Horses like this require as much access to outdoor turnout and pasture as possible and to have their diets adjusted too.  For info on the best pasture for horses see www.safergrass.org that site will give you insights into the perfect diets for horses and how we are setting our horses up for problems with the diets we give them now.
 

Anyway in the mean time my old farrier who helped fix him left and we got a new one and when he shod him he made the mistake of not standing him up correctly and his feet fell to pieces again, so i replaced him with my current farrier who has only given him the one shoeing and stood him back up again, but i have now run back into these soft sole problems ... he seems to think it has to do with all the rain we have had over the last 3 weeks and working him in the sloshy sand, and also the horse having the sort of feet that will always be suseptible to having problems.

Its not possible to "stand" up a horse. You can chock up heels which only puts more pressure there and crushes the caudal hoof area further. Your farrier may have bought back his breakover which would have helped but only correct hoof growth can stand up a horse again. If he has sub clinical laminitis then his hoof walls are not where you want him hanging off, the tender sole may mean that his pedal bone is sitting just above them already.  I would get the shoes off and support him with boots and pads for a while.

But i am thinking it might run deeper then just him being shod correctly and was thinking of changing his feed , but am not really sure what too, or if that is even the right solution.

Basically i am at the point where i want to start from scratch but would like to know the best way to go about it ??

The internet is a great resource for hoof help.  I would arm myself with all the info I can get on the latest in hoofcare and diet.  Have a look at www.safergrass.org for diet help, plus there are good articles on Pete Ramey's site www.hoofrehab.com that explain better in depth much of why horses are getting all the issues that they are.

In Australia we have an excellent resource in Andrew Bowe "The Barefoot Blacksmith" who was a Master Farrier and AJC accredited farrier and developer of the Equine Podio-therapy course.  Andrew had 20 years experience shoeing race horses and now runs clinics to help horse owners, trainers, body workers learn how to pick up on the early signs of hoof deformation and avoid problems later. See his work on www.barehoofcare.com


Much to think about I know.  Its a huge leap of faith to head down this path but the rewards are truly amazing and worth the efforts.

Cheers Chris

« Last Edit: 2008-Feb-07, 03:01 PM by MagiC~* »

Offline bgm1409

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« 2008-Feb-07, 08:27 PM Reply #7 »
A very interesting read, but I wonder how much acceptance within racing circles it would get.  Many years ago my mum had an interest in a very good mare who was greatly troubled by navicular disease.  I wonder if racing tried it would we see a positive impact on issues such as joint and tendon injury.
« Last Edit: 2008-Feb-07, 08:33 PM by bgm1409 »

Offline equethyws

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« 2008-Feb-07, 10:07 PM Reply #8 »
A very interesting read, but I wonder how much acceptance within racing circles it would get.  Many years ago my mum had an interest in a very good mare who was greatly troubled by navicular disease.  I wonder if racing tried it would we see a positive impact on issues such as joint and tendon injury.

Very little acceptance until there is a better understanding of why there is so much lameness in racing circles but it will happen as it has happened in other performance sports.  Horse owners through the web now have access to lots of great info and can make more informed choices for their horses. 

We do a lot of rehab with horses who have had diagnosis of navicular. Its not a disease its a sydrome of symptoms from hoof deformation and they usually can be reversed once you re-establish the integrity of the hoof again by returning it to normal. 

I wish more vets would look into using barefoot rehab. for this condition instead of prescribing corrective shoeing, invasive surgery and even neurectomies (cutting nerves)as their methods of choice.  At least try barefoot rehab first.  The other alternatives are so permanent and are just paliative care.

Did you know that navicular syndrome is never seen in physiologically correct hooves and is only ever present in hooves that show hoof deformation.  It is an entirely man made condition.  Scary eh.

Cheers Chris

Offline MagiC~*

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« 2009-Jan-26, 10:34 PM Reply #9 »
Not sure if you could answer this equethyws,

But if somebody was thinking about giving this method a go, where would they begin ?

Would it be possible to try this when you bring a horse in from a spell, also the important thing is obviously keeping a horses hoof trimmed correctly and often, how would you go about advising you farrier in the correct way of doing so ?

Thinking I might start trialling something like this myself depending on the details.

Also how would horses hooves cope with walking too and from the track on bitumen and or concrete and with working on a sand based track ?

You have me very intrigued.

There was a trainer once called Vic Rail who never used to shoe his horses nor himself   :lol:  , and I am sure he used to race them with out shoes also

Look forward to hearing from you

Cheers
« Last Edit: 2009-Jan-26, 10:37 PM by MagiC~* »

Offline Hillbilly

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« 2009-Jan-26, 11:27 PM Reply #10 »
A really interesting thread. I hope Chris responds it's been a while since the original posts.

Offline equethyws

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« 2009-Jan-27, 08:44 AM Reply #11 »
Not sure if you could answer this equethyws,


Hi,  Yes still here but only now and then!  I haven't got the hang of this forum so I will just insert my comments below headed with >>>>> >>>>>>> hope that works ok.


But if somebody was thinking about giving this method a go, where would they begin ?

You need to attend a workshop on this method.  A good one as there are some that have appeared that are wanting in content.  Actually you and your farrier should both attend together.  Andrew Bowe www.barehoofcare.com.au is a Master Farrier and was the AJC registered farrier for Mansfield and is now an Equine Podiotherapist with a specialist rehab. centre in Victoria.  You won't get better than him.  His workshops walk you through every aspect of the hoof using disections of actual hooves and then you learn to trim on a cadaver hoof.  Your farrier will say he doesn't need to go but he does as none of this is taught in any farriers course in Australia at this time.  Once you see how to recognise the living landmarks that show how the hoof has distored you will never again look at your horses and scratch your head wondering why they have gone off form.  Saves a great deal in vets bills for tests that show nothing!!!

If you wish Andrew will also do private workshops for groups so maybe get a few of your mates with horses and do one together.  They are actually a lot of fun.  You can bring a horse or not so it suits everyone.

Would it be possible to try this when you bring a horse in from a spell, also the important thing is obviously keeping a horses hoof trimmed correctly and often, how would you go about advising you farrier in the correct way of doing so ?

Spelling is the only time you can try this. Unless of course the horse breaks down and you are forced to do it due to hoof issues.  The hoof has to grow into a better shape so the longer the spell the better and the bigger the pasture it is turned out in the better too.  It will need at least four weekly trimming if you don't keep up a regular four weekly schedule you will not achieve anything.  Also if you just turn the out and do a standard trim you won't achieve much either other than the horse getting a little more comfortable cause the shoes are off.    The forces that caused the hoof to distort have to be removed so it can grow into a more correct form to you have to have a proper barefoot trim applied.


Thinking I might start trialling something like this myself depending on the details.

Great idea.  Even if you take an old brood mare with poor hooves as your test pilot and do this trim (but do it regularly and trim correctly to make it a fair test) you will see the amazing differences.  Andrew Bowe and my group taught the WA Mounted police how to trim their own horses.  Now these guys had never done it before either. When their farriers contract ran out they took over trimming their own horses.  Girls and guys.. they love it as it has made such a change to their horses.  They even say their attitude to their work is better and they don't have sour horses anymore.   Their Snr. Sgt. says that their horses have never been better. They used to have an injury list of horses for the vets to see constantly ... horses that couldn't go out on patrol, he says now they have no injury list and no vets bills (unless its for colic or non hoof stuff).  He said he would recommend it to anyone.


Also how would horses hooves cope with walking too and from the track on bitumen and or concrete and with working on a sand based track ?

There is a great range of hoof boots for every occassion now.  Have a look at www.easycaredownunder.com.au These  can be used for the times when you need some protection.  Its not necessary in the pasture as they horse needs the stimulation of ground contact to improve the hoof but the boots are great for those times when you want to take them on terrain they are not accustomed to. 

You have me very intrigued.

There was a trainer once called Vic Rail who never used to shoe his horses nor himself   :lol:  , and I am sure he used to race them with out shoes also

Smart man!
This is not a new idea..... its just that now we have the scientific research to back it up and to show us what the steel shoes actually do to our horses. Up till now we haven't had the medical imaging technology to look inside the live hoof with m.r.i. and the like its revealing a whole lot of amazing things.



« Last Edit: 2009-Jan-27, 08:55 AM by MagiC~* »

Offline MagiC~*

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« 2009-Jan-27, 09:02 AM Reply #12 »
OK , not sure on what chance I would have at getting our farrier to a workshop, and not sure if you would have workshops in QLD.

Is the trimming any different to how a farrier would trim a weanling or horse in a paddock that isn't being shod with shoes, and if so could you explain how (Hoping to be able to explain to the farrier) ?

Also, about how often would you need to trim your horses hooves, every 2- 3 weeks ?

Maybe there are some diagrams or pictures on the the correct method  :what:

Cheers

Offline equethyws

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« 2009-Jan-27, 10:50 AM Reply #13 »
Hi comments inserted below (sounds painful eh)!


OK , not sure on what chance I would have at getting our farrier to a workshop, and not sure if you would have workshops in QLD.

>>>>>>> Yes there are workshops scheduled for Qld.       Unless you are going to take over your horse's trimmingyourself  MAKE your farrier go to the workshop.  Or consider getting a professional trimmer to take over the job for that horse. There are several Equine Podiotherapists in Queensland.  Otherwise he will just say he knows how to do a barefoot trim (as they all say) when he doesn't or your horse wouldn't have unresolved hoof deformation problems!  Its the top farriers who are keeping the race industry stuck in the past as they have such huge egos that they won't look outside their own backyard which is littered with the dregs of good horses ruined by poor hoof care practices.  Not their fault but in a way it is as this is not new information now.  Getting off the soapbox now.




Is the trimming any different to how a farrier would trim a weanling or horse in a paddock that isn't being shod with shoes, and if so could you explain how (Hoping to be able to explain to the farrier) ?

>>>>>>>>>>>Yes its totally different.  Its mimicing the wear that a horse would receive if it had access to a lot of movement and a lot of wear and tear on the hooves.  It requires knowing what to leave on thehoof and what to take off the hoof.  When a farrier normally does what is called a "pasture trim" he just files the foot flat and takes off some of the excess growth around the hoof wall.  A barefoot trimmer approaches every hoof with an eye to creating the hoof that "that" horse shoudl have.  He/she looks at the hoof and assesses where there are leverage forces at work that pulling the hoof out of shape and designs a trim to remove these  They look at the amount of excess sole that has built up and remove it but only down to a point where the horse will remain sound.  They assess how forward the hoof capsule has moved by using the living landmarks on the hoof to establsih exaclty where the fulcrum point of the bony column lies within the hoof.  That sets up perfect and correct biomechanics.  Then they can balance the hoof properly.  They then work towards adjusting the hoof so that the horse's weight in motion encourages it to wear correctly and helps bring it back into a correct shape with every step.  They lower the heels to the place where they would wear naturally and work to correct under run heels and restablish some integrity in the capsule.  If the heels are too far forward and under run they work to adjust them to be wieghtbearing in the correct place which correct this issue.  But...... you have to be shown the living landmarks in the flesh to learn them quickly.  There are dvd's and if you only have access to them they are better than nothing but its far easier to see landmarks on the living horse under the guideance of an expert. 



Also, about how often would you need to trim your horses hooves, every 2- 3 weeks ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That depends on lots of things.  How healthy the hoof is; this determines the amount of growth.  Often racing thoroughbreds have sub clinical laminitis from there diets that cause them to have continually tender slow growing hooves that has to be addressed too.  See www.safergrass.org for  more info on that issue.

The pasture they are kept on determines growth.  Actually the rougher the better for hooves!  The amount of movement the horse does influences growth.  Horse kept in single yards will stand and just stare at the horse's next door.  Horses kept together interact and play and move constantly to graze which creates good tough well shaped hooves.  This is imperative for the young foals and young horses.



Maybe there are some diagrams or pictures on the the correct method  :what:

>>>>>>>>>A dvd is better help than a diagram.  A diagram won't work as no hoof is identical to the next (even on the same horse) as it depends on each indivual hoof and the amount of distortion present.  Using a method or gadget that sets parameters is a recipe for failure.  This was tried by Dr. Strasser and gave barefoot such a bad name as the trimmers trained by her tried to make every horse fit these parameters and it just can't be done and keep every horse sound.   Thats why I harp on about going to a workshop to see the cadaver hooves in the flesh so you can get your head around the living landmarks as they are never wrong.

Cheers

Offline MagiC~*

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« 2009-Jan-27, 11:16 AM Reply #14 »
Any good professional trimmers Sunshine Coast / Brisbane way ......  ?

Offline equethyws

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« 2009-Jan-27, 11:30 AM Reply #15 »
Hi,

I am not local so don't know the area .  These two I can recommend and if they can't help they might know someone local who can.

Sue Daniel - Dayboro - Caboolture - Woodford 0438 126 929

Dr. Alison McIntosh Veterinarian - Aubigny - 0419 836 238




Offline MagiC~*

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« 2009-Jan-27, 11:31 AM Reply #16 »
Thanks mate, appreciate that

Offline ratsack

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« 2011-Oct-11, 06:35 PM Reply #17 »
bump

Offline Gintara

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« 2011-Oct-11, 06:59 PM Reply #18 »
Did the horse in the original post break down?

Offline richo

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« 2011-Oct-11, 09:15 PM Reply #19 »
magic use formilin on ths horse for soft feet ,use 3 days in a row then every 2nd day for 10 days and will harden the soles and not a good idea to use vic rail as an example some of his horses feet looked terrible and he race a lot in tips.


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