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Offline westie

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O.P. « 2008-Dec-17, 07:04 PM »
Is the whip being used excessively.


Australian Racing Board
 
The Australian Racing Board Chairman, Bob Bentley on Wednesday has written to each Principal Racing Authority, the Australian Jockeys’ Association, the Australian Trainers Association, Equine Veterinarians Australia and the Australian Thoroughbred Racehorse Owners Council as part of the consultation process for changes to controls on whip use.

The consultation process will focus on a number of draft measures that have been identified for industry consideration and comment.

The draft measures:

(i) Introduction of padded whips and banning the use of traditional whips to be considered.
(ii) Specific proscription of use of the whip:
(a) Using an action that raises the rider’s arm above shoulder height
(b) When horse is clearly winning.
(c) Where no reasonable prospect of improving a horse’s placing
(iii) Restrictions on the amount of in-running whip use.
(iv) A requirement that whips not to be drawn on 2yos.
(v) Enforcing the current controls of excessive or unnecessary whip use.

“The ARB meeting foreshadowed that before a decision is made on introducing padded whips it may be necessary for more research to be undertaken, both into the merits of padded whips and their availability. At this point I note that leading jockey Glen Colless has been using a padded whip for the last 6 months and is riding with great success. The experiences of riders like him will be useful not only to deciding what course we take but also in providing examples that fellow riders can turn to if we go down the path of changing to padded whips”.– Bob Bentley, Chairman, Australian Racing Board.

Prescriptive details are available on the ARB website.
 
« Last Edit: 2009-Feb-25, 07:05 PM by westie »

Offline Authorized

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« 2009-Jan-02, 05:02 PM Reply #1 »
Max Presnell
January 2, 2009
 
"The number of strokes should be fixed at, say, five and the consequences of exceeding that should be automatic disqualification of the horse rather than the suspension of the rider. The nod-and-a-wink culture by which trainers, owners, punters and press tacitly encourage whip offences at the moment would cease as soon as everyone shared the pain. Public perception of the sport would improve."

Whip riding in Australian racing is going to change, despite opposition from us traditionalists but to the degree advocated by Bill O'Gorman, writing in the Pacemaker last year? O'Gorman says the application of the whip "may easily become the most important issue for [horse] racing within our lifetime".

It's always been a story of interest to me going back to the 1960s when Jim Bendroit, a great character, wouldn't allow his horses to be hit with the whip. Later came Des Lake, who applied the stick with great effect but left a tattoo. Worthies such as the late David McNicol campaigned against the whip but to a limited audience. I interviewed Darby Munro, a legend and perhaps the most powerful man on horseback and, yes, Lester Piggott was good. But Munro scoffed at the suggestion it was cruel.

Such is political correctness that the Man From Snowy River would be charged with cruelty to his "hardy mountain pony". "He was blood from hip to shoulder from the spur." No matter that his "pluck was still undaunted and his courage fiery hot".

However, jockeys these days hardly use spurs, due mainly to riding so short, and O'Gorman has produced a powerful argument for the whip to go the same way. Obviously he feels the governing of it in Britain is not effective. Headline: "Whipslash, MP demands ban as 513 horses are battered".

From a recent steward's conference in Japan, Ray Murrihy, the Racing NSW chief stipe, reports 287 suspensions were handed out to British jockeys over whip use.

Thus the clout will go out of the shillelagh in Australia. The Australian Racing Board and stewards will introduce measures such as the application by some new-fangled painless swatter and permissible strikes. The age of the recipient will also come into play. Measures even less effective than O'Gorman's would have meant other results in recent months. Certainly last year's Melbourne Cup, won by Viewed in a centimetre finish, would have been different had Blake Shinn ridden to the incoming rules.

"At present jockeys bear the total brunt of the responsibility for their actions," O'Gorman says, maintaining "the only way to avoid that ultimate sanction is to self-medicate. Only [by] rendering cavalier use of the whip impractical will we remove the widespread impression of abuse."

O'Gorman correctly reckons that putting the situation at its worst - "which is what the politically motivated campaign invariably does" - "jockeys are flogging mounts in order to force them to race … and a different perception needs to be created".

"Those who imagine that retaining the status quo is an option rely upon the fact that 'they' - those who may ultimately cause the decision to ban the whip - don't understand this sport in the way 'we' do."

Hear, hear …

"Our politicians fully appreciate the importance of keeping the looniest liberal and craziest class warriors on side." O'Gorman went on. "Arguing the case with any anti brigade is a waste of time."

Incidentally, there was a demonstration about the whip when the Australian Racing Board met late last year on the subject. A dead snake would have drawn a bigger crowd.

"Unfortunately, racing folk will persist in trotting out platitudes such as 'I should like … to be a racehorse and live in luxury' whenever the issue arises," O'Gorman pointed out.

Guilty, your honour.

O'Gorman says it's about as effective as the argument about fox hunting: "Have you seen what a fox does when it gets in a hen house?"

The uneatable being pursued by the unspeakable has now gone the way of unrestricted whip. O'Gorman refers to an insight given by British trainer and vet, Mark Johnston: "[It's] from a less subjective viewpoint but he to fails to come to terms with the real issue. The question of whether or not the whip works by eliciting the fight response or through some deeper physiological pathway may be interesting in itself but is quite irrelevant to the decision of excessive use.

"All that matters is that if the use of the whip looks bad for the horse, then it is bad for the sport because it raises the issue of animal abuse in the name of sport and gambling.

"The most vigorous campaigners - and this includes an increasingly political RSPCA - are too often the bosom friends to hypocrisy and total strangers to commonsense

"For instance, trainers must now have their lads certified as competent to take a horse to the races whilst slaughter horses still travel thousands of miles across Europe in appalling conditions."

O'Gorman's guidelines for the use of the whip a

■ A degree of reasonable compulsion is proven on a practical level to be indispensable to racing.

■ That the ruling body has mechanisms in place that ensure breaches of best practices are rare.

■ When those breaches occur the sanction imposed is so severe that it prevents any repetition.

The sting is in the tail. Will a mover and shaker like Bob Bentley, the new Australian Racing Board chairman, have the courage to introduce a rule to disqualify a horse like Viewed for whip abuse?

Offline Arsenal

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« 2009-Jan-02, 10:47 PM Reply #2 »
Who is Bill O'Gorman ? While use of the whip looks certain to be regulated they won't go so far as to disqualify a horse when the whip is overused.F the jockey or suspend in serious cases but leave the punters alone.We are few in number as it is  emthdown

Offline Authorized

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« 2009-Jan-04, 02:57 PM Reply #3 »
Punters will soon get used to it. What about the punters on the runner up Arsenal, why shouldn't cheats be disqualified ?

Max Presnall
January 4, 2009

"NOT acceptable," Racing NSW chief steward Ray Murrihy commented about the whip riding of apprentice Daniel Ganderton on Gold Water in the Hit It Benny Handicap at Royal Randwick yesterday.

Ganderton hit Gold Water more than 20 times - being kind, there were a couple of back handers - to score by three-quarters of a length.

Under the new whip restrictions coming in later this year, Ganderton would have at least been fined for exceeding the strike limit. In the past he would have been acclaimed for such a powerful display.

"Hit, and wait for the horse to respond," Murrihy stressed was the application that would apply. Ganderton struck up a flailing motion on Gold Water.

Gold Water is trained by Gai Waterhouse and historically the stable's horses, from when her father the late Tommy Smith was in charge, respond to hard riding.

Because fines for excessive use have had little effect in Great Britain, it is being advocated a breach of the rules should lead to a severe penalty. Had that applied yesterday, Ganderton, on Gold Water, would have been disqualified. Fines will hardly be a sufficient deterrent. After all, wouldn't most owners instruct a jockey to "get this one home, and I'll look after fine?"

However, Murrihy, unlike Melbourne stewards previously, didn't even issue an official warning over Gold Water.

"I can't take action until the [excessive-use] rules are in place," he explained, adding he expected them to be finalised in March and come into force next season. Certainly, stipes can take action against riders of those back in the field which they consider receive too much unnecessary punishment.

Ganderton probably would have breached the rule when completing a double on the highly promising Rangirangdoo in the Mr. Tiz Welter. Still, the gelding wasn't subjected to the same pressure as Gold Water. When favourite My Sweet Cookie, giving Rangirangdoo a considerable start, went to the tail of the field his supporters hardly had a warm and fuzzy feeling, considering the pattern of racing.

Apart from Ganderton, the program featured kind riding, with jockeys adjusting to the circumstances. With the rail out wide, frontrunners are usually favoured and this resulted in some soft leads yesterday. Navigators could afford to be generous to their mounts.

Take, for instance, Jim Cassidy on McClintock in the Bletchingly Handicap. As race-caller Mark Shean commented, the win didn't surprise because McClintock "had such an easy time in front". Cassidy, stronger than most in a finish and hardly one to follow the edict of spare the rod and spoil the horse, quipped: "I've finally taken advantage of the good hands I've got, to get a hard puller to settle."

Mark De Montfort, the former jockey and trainer of McClintock, obviously played a role in the horse's behaviour.

Another assisted by the slack pace was Clothing, with Kerrin McEvoy up, in the Kista Handicap. McEvoy has ridden under British rules, so is more reserved with the persuader but, with Clothing being on the speed, she didn't need much encouragement.

McEvoy handled one of the few back-markers to shine when two-year-old Red Pixie, making her debut, finished second to Cleanup in the Snippets Handicap. Both were aided by leaders which went lickety split, but Cleanup had had the benefit of a previous race.

"You can't replicate what a race start does for a two-year-old," said Peter Snowden, the trainer of Red Pixie.
« Last Edit: 2009-Jan-04, 03:00 PM by Authorized »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2009-Jan-04, 09:43 PM Reply #4 »
Cheats get caught eventually Authorised but we'll need to see what the new rule contains before jumping to conclusions that disqualification will or won't be an option.


Offline Authorized

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« 2009-Jan-04, 09:44 PM Reply #5 »
Cheats need to be caught before correct weight.

Offline equethyws

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« 2009-Jan-10, 08:31 AM Reply #6 »
I commend the Board for looking into the changes in whips but I feel that they need to rethink the entire use of whips.  In all other top equine competitive sports the use of whips has been outlawed many years ago as they are deemed unnecessary.

Cheers Chris

Offline Bundy

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« 2009-Jan-10, 08:37 AM Reply #7 »
Ask 100 trainers if they consider whips necessary.......my guess....100/100 :unsu

Offline richo

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« 2009-Jan-10, 08:42 AM Reply #8 »
I thinkthe use of the whip is ok but the jockey should say to the horse at least 3 times "if you don't try harder I'm going to hit you with my whip" and every jockey should carry a tape recorder to prove he asked 3 times.

Offline grandstand

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« 2009-Jan-10, 10:54 AM Reply #9 »
i think if all these rules come into play the jocks that are strong whip riders and so on will find it difficult to ride  as many winners, i think the apprentices with 4 , 3 , 2 kgs off  the horses backs will dominate as their inexperience with whip riding will not matter. i don't like the idea of not having a jock throw everything at a horse that i have my money on weather it be spurs whips or whatever so i am against the idea of changing the rules.

Offline Authorized

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« 2009-Jan-10, 11:55 AM Reply #10 »
Granstands comments are interesting.

Perhaps Westie you could join these two threads together some how ?

http://www.racehorsetalk.com.au/index.php/topic,2867.msg16823/topicseen.html#new

Offline richo

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« 2009-Jan-10, 02:02 PM Reply #11 »
we have racing at the moment  without spurs ,whips and jockeys it's called greyhound racing it seems thats where we are heading with horse racing. off course jockeys have to carry whips, no horse needs a flogging but used properly  it will lift a horse to his best . With the hundreds of starters i've had very rarely have I had a horse come back with welts from the whip. Jocks will have to drop their irons about 6 holes and I would hate to be a punter betting on racing if whips are  banned.

Offline grandstand

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« 2009-Jan-10, 02:09 PM Reply #12 »
thats my point richo jocks drop their irons raking them, hands and heals, thats why i think apprentices will dominate 3kgs off their back hands and heals, to easy!

Offline Sporty

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« 2009-Jan-10, 04:12 PM Reply #13 »
Shorten the sticks.  or give little ones to these dwarfs with long arms ...& vice versa   :lol:

Offline manikato1

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« 2009-Jan-10, 05:11 PM Reply #14 »
There is another point I think is not taken into consideration.  I think that most jockeys don't strike the horse with every motion, and in many cases do hardly more than tap the horse.  But if you watch races from the UK, even though jockeys are supposedly restricted in the number of times they can use the whip and how they can use the whip, they definitely seem to make each strike count more than out jockeys.  I think it is preferable to keep our current rules than create new rules which may look even worse to non racing people (and lets face it, they are the one's who this rule is for).

On the other hand, I would like to see some races for apprentice riders where jockeys are not allowed to use the whip, except in safety situations, to encourage young riders to ride horses out without the use of the whip.  Such a series may over the long term reduce "abuse" of the whip, and encourage young riders to go for the whip as a last resort.

Offline Big Wheel

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« 2009-Jan-10, 05:27 PM Reply #15 »
 the funny thing is there is no such so called safety situations where you need a whip to control a horse, if the horse puts a jock in a so called dangerous position believe me the whip is not gonna help you
the things called reigns are the only thing that can help you

Offline Sporty

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« 2009-Jan-10, 06:52 PM Reply #16 »
edited
« Last Edit: 2009-May-29, 09:51 AM by Sporty »

Offline woodywob

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« 2009-Jan-10, 07:27 PM Reply #17 »
Who makes whips for thorougbred racing these days ?

Peter Bakos use to be the best but he has been dead for a while ....

Offline Sporty

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« 2009-Jan-11, 11:21 AM Reply #18 »
Who makes whips for thorougbred racing these days ?

Peter Bakos use to be the best but he has been dead for a while ....


Still very much in demand they are even worldwide. & then your got Hyland racing gear who just about make everything in racing gear for jocks

Offline equethyws

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« 2009-Jan-11, 05:45 PM Reply #19 »
Why do you think hitting the horse lifts him to his best? 

There are other equine sports where the horses work fast and hard and win and the whip has been banned in these for many years. Why is it ok to belt the crap out of young animals on the race track. 

If they are good and not carrying injuries they will be fast, very fast, and they will win anyway.  Stop using quaint language like "lifting" them when in fact its just giving them a belting.

If you took a dog out onto the track at the greyhounds and belted it even a couple of times there would be a public outcry but because its a horse and we are used to seeing this in every race we think that its OK.  Its not they have the same pain responses as we do and as all mammals do so what makes it ok to do it to horses.

Good riders get the best out of their horses without needing a whip.  Lets see which jockeys are horsemen and which are just passengers with whips.

Cheers Chris




Offline Authorized

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« 2009-Jan-11, 05:50 PM Reply #20 »
Another thing that seems to be constantly forgotten in these debates is the fact EVERY HORSE will be running under the same rules.

We will soon find out which horses are genuine or not without the whips.

Offline Red

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« 2009-Jan-11, 05:56 PM Reply #21 »
Limiting the number of strokes is ridiculous. Two jockeys locked in a dual over the last 200m in a $2m. Group 1 need to count how many times they've used the whip??
I've heard D Oliver on radio and read D Beadman saying they need use of the whip, overall. Certainly, flogging a beaten horse a fair way from the finish should have the jockey barred.

Offline Authorized

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« 2009-Jan-11, 06:03 PM Reply #22 »
And if the one that crosses the line first has exceeded his allowance than he shall be disqualified and fair enough too.

And if both exceed it than they shall both be disqualified.    emthup  And fair enough too.

Offline Red

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« 2009-Jan-11, 06:07 PM Reply #23 »
Will never happen.
But I also thought we'd never hear a female AFL comentator calling the game   :biggrin:

Offline richo

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« 2009-Jan-11, 06:29 PM Reply #24 »
sorry equ after 23 years of training horses I realise now I know nothing compared to you , but I will trundle along doing something I know nothing about. I'm sure with your training methodsyou must know a lot about training racehorses when you write your first book on the subject could please send me a copy.


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