2017 Melbourne Cup - Melbourne Cup - Racehorse TALK harm-plan harm-plan

Racehorse TALK



2017 Melbourne Cup - Melbourne Cup - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: 2017 Melbourne Cup  (Read 25796 times)

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Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-19, 07:39 PM Reply #50 »
How did they put a stop to it when "Rogie " was in charge. Did they undertake an enquiry into the bonafides of the Operation ? Did they question "Rogie " as to whether these horses were being prepared by him? Did they call the owner in and tell him that in the best interests of punters an unlicensed individual could not operate a training establishment ? Did they inform that if he continued to train horses without a license then they had the power to warn him off and not accept nominations in respect of his horses ? Of course not.
This bloke has been above all rules for far too long. Stewards, as Chris Scott eloquently told Geelong "need to grow some balls ".
Integrity in Victoria is just a matter for the little guys.

Offline ratsack

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« 2017-Sep-19, 07:54 PM Reply #51 »
anything from the weekend from the stewards re pace makers ?

Offline ratsack

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« 2017-Sep-19, 08:02 PM Reply #52 »
anything from the weekend from the stewards re pace makers ?


Race 8 - Japan Racing Association Trophy (Listed) - 2500 metres:

Bondi Beach - connections advised would be ridden back from the wide gate; settled at the rear of the field. A post race veterinary examination failed to reveal any abnormalities.

Loresho (FR) - steadied at the 800m to avoid the heels of Aloft.

Hans Holbein (GB) - apprentice Beau Mertens could offer no explanation for the performance. A post race veterinary examination failed to reveal any abnormalities.


nope  :shrug:

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Sep-19, 08:17 PM Reply #53 »
The William's camp are famous for their pacemakers and I would have liked to see Hans Holbein really cart them along on Sat.
Didn't look like he had the necessary pace to do so.

Their $61.00 shot Grand Duke Of Tuscany however traveled really well in front and the fact he was only beaten 3.75 lengths suggests it wasn't a suicidal pace.
He was still very strong at the end.

For mine there is nothing to see here.

Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-19, 08:38 PM Reply #54 »
Nothing to see !. You must wear royal blue pyjamas with white armbands. Sweet dreams.

Offline ratsack

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« 2017-Sep-19, 08:50 PM Reply #55 »
The William's camp are famous for their pacemakers and I would have liked to see Hans Holbein really cart them along on Sat.
Didn't look like he had the necessary pace to do so.

Their $61.00 shot Grand Duke Of Tuscany however traveled really well in front and the fact he was only beaten 3.75 lengths suggests it wasn't a suicidal pace.
He was still very strong at the end.

For mine there is nothing to see here.

normal racing pattern ?

anyway not a good look
stewards report

not a good look


Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Sep-19, 08:52 PM Reply #56 »
What do you see here?

They told anyone who wanted to listen what their plans were re pace.
Are you familiar with the racing patterns of their horses?

I'm sure the camp was blown away with the performance of Almandin.and I don't think they would have seen that coming.

I agree with Greg Carpenter and think they have got themselves a super stayer.
No particular fan of anybody in racing......just a fan of the thoroughbred.

Just put your money on Gunbower.........just has to stay sound.

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Sep-19, 08:57 PM Reply #57 »
normal racing pattern ?

anyway not a good look
stewards report

not a good look
That was no surprise for me from the 1 gate.
 
I've backed him a lot recently and like to see him ridden that way.
He does look like he can sustain a very solid gallop.

Offline ratsack

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« 2017-Sep-19, 09:07 PM Reply #58 »
are pace makers allowed in Australia ?

no   :biggrin:

to me the race LOOKED like a pace maker was in play .

do the stewards or the media say anything ?

the horse from memory races on pace but at one stage lead by 6-8 ? to suit the other stablemates

the important thing to me is , i wouldn't be the only one thinking the same thing

stewards and media crawl up his arse    :stop:

 :chin:

Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-19, 09:48 PM Reply #59 »
Very well put Ratsack. It is as if the media and the stewards have an orgasm every time he or that son of his decides to talk to any of them.

Offline Gintara

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« 2017-Sep-19, 10:10 PM Reply #60 »
I didn't see anything untoward on Saturday.

I just saw a horse run them along in a staying race, happens regularly.

I'm not sure what he was to do, they had horses leading, on the pace, mid field and at the back. Are we to restrict the number of runners he has?  :shutup:

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Sep-19, 10:19 PM Reply #61 »
Very well put Ratsack. It is as if the media and the stewards have an orgasm every time he or that son of his decides to talk to any of them.
Well that says a lot more about the media than it does about Lloyd Williams...doesn't it?

If this is racing's great integrity issue then I'm missing something.
The guy buys strong staying horses so no surprise he is going to test the opposition's stamina.
 
 

 

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2017-Sep-20, 09:21 AM Reply #62 »
I I can not see any issue at all with a owner having 100% say in when and where his horse races.


What did training supremo  Tommy Smith say to like-minded owners after  learning his lesson when  Haley insisted Tulloch not run in the '57 Cup?





 

Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-20, 09:36 AM Reply #63 »
o/k , what ?

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Sep-20, 12:15 PM Reply #64 »
What did training supremo  Tommy Smith say to like-minded owners after  learning his lesson when  Haley insisted Tulloch not run in the '57 Cup?

I do not recall what Tommy said but I recall Bart saying on many occasions his costs where more expensive the more input the owner had.


Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-20, 01:03 PM Reply #65 »
That is just the ultimate red herring. What does that have to do with Racing Victoria conveniently allowing one bod to train his horses while being unlicensed ? No one else is allowed to get away with it.

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Sep-20, 02:02 PM Reply #66 »
That is just the ultimate red herring. What does that have to do with Racing Victoria conveniently allowing one bod to train his horses while being unlicensed ? No one else is allowed to get away with it.

Just because Lloyd Williams says when and where is horses race does not necessarily mean he trains the horses.

That said, He is the best trainer of stayers in Australia.

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2017-Sep-20, 02:12 PM Reply #67 »
o/k , what ?

He said they could take their horses out of his stables.

Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-20, 07:12 PM Reply #68 »
You have just got to shake your head at the logic here some times. T J Smith allegedly makes a comment over 50 years ago on an unrelated matter and some would want to use it to back up their "argument " The simple facts are that for whatever reason(s) the same licensing rules do not apply to this Williams cove. One has to ask why not ? Is he an untouchable and if so why ?

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Sep-20, 07:18 PM Reply #69 »
What do you think of the Godolphin set up ?


Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Sep-20, 07:20 PM Reply #70 »
There is absolutely nothing in the rules that legislate against an owner telling a trainer what to do with his own horse.

If you can tell us what rule Williams is breaking it would be appreciated ?

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Sep-20, 07:45 PM Reply #71 »
I too would like to know how you think Lloyd Williams isn't compliant Gunbower.

After Rogie left the building, they would have to be fully compliant with all the rules.

Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-20, 08:34 PM Reply #72 »
Evening Gents. The comparison with the Godolphin is drawing a long bow. As far as I know Hawkes , Snowden, O'Shea and later James Cummings have never been afflicted by that virus known as laryngitis. That cannot be said for Rogerson , Plumb and now this chap Hickmott. They either are regularly suffering from this virus or have been gagged by someone else. If they are really training racehorses under the terms of their license then why are they so media shy. Gee I have come up with an answer. The billionaire who employs them has told them to shut their mouths. Thats what bullies can do. What regulatory authorities can do is ensure that no one is above  the requirements of the license. Sadly Racing Victoria for whatever reasons lack that courage.







Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2017-Sep-20, 08:43 PM Reply #73 »
You have just got to shake your head at the logic here some times. T J Smith allegedly makes a comment over 50 years ago on an unrelated matter and some would want to use it to back up their "argument " The simple facts are that for whatever reason(s) the same licensing rules do not apply to this Williams cove. One has to ask why not ? Is he an untouchable and if so why ?

I'm not using that to make any comment about the issue at hand, vis-a-vis Lloyd

I'm just using it to comment about Auth's comment.

Gun.
Chill out, we can have tangential discussions here without the sky falling in , you know.

Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-20, 08:49 PM Reply #74 »
JWH, agree fully it is certainly not the end of our World . That is seemingly more likely to be a bit further north from here across the Equator ! I just feel if you make arguments in a debate then make them relevant to the subject.


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