2017 Melbourne Cup - Melbourne Cup - Racehorse TALK   harm-plan

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2017 Melbourne Cup - Melbourne Cup - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: 2017 Melbourne Cup  (Read 4392 times)

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Offline samatt

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« 2017-Jul-18, 06:01 PM Reply #25 »
Sarrasin is very interesting, had a quiet return trial at Rosehill today for Waller. Lightly raced 5yo by Monsun out of a High Chap mare, that's a good head start.
« Last Edit: 2017-Jul-18, 06:09 PM by samatt »

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Jul-22, 05:20 PM Reply #26 »
Maybe the track got a bit firm for Kilimanjaro today or maybe Team Williams are trying to do an Almandin.

It was interesting that Almandin only showed how good he was, straight after the cup weights were released.

Couldn't blame the Williams' camp for trying the same formula.

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Jul-23, 10:59 AM Reply #27 »
Maybe the track got a bit firm for Kilimanjaro today or maybe Team Williams are trying to do an Almandin.

It was interesting that Almandin only showed how good he was, straight after the cup weights were released.

Couldn't blame the Williams' camp for trying the same formula.

With a rating of 89 he needs to do some winning. Need at least 105 to get the minimum for the Cups.

I suspect next time they have a 2500m race at Flemington this guy will be out in front and winning.


Offline samatt

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« 2017-Aug-11, 01:13 PM Reply #28 »
The Waller Monsun horse Sarrasin goes around tomorrow at Rosehill. Not expecting much this Saturday but a big watch on this fellow. Couple of nice quiet trials working through the line, including a good conditioning trial behind Ugo Fuscolo.

Tough gig to pick the winner in early markets though, seems like they are coming from everywhere for the Cup this year, far more than usual.

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2017-Aug-11, 07:03 PM Reply #29 »
How's Lloyd going to get Crocodile Rock into the cup with a BM of 70

Should have run in he Autumn

Is he ready tomorrow or put in a shocker like Almandin did

Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Aug-11, 07:34 PM Reply #30 »
Who really cares these days ? They basically have achieved changing the fabric of Australian Racing by making it a quality handicap and letting all these overseas billionaires bring their second raters over here. Who has it been good for ? Just our own free loading billionaires and their associated hangers on . Second question ' Why do people call him LLoyd ; as if they know him? He wouldn't give them the time of day.

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Aug-12, 10:04 AM Reply #31 »
Who really cares these days ? They basically have achieved changing the fabric of Australian Racing by making it a quality handicap and letting all these overseas billionaires bring their second raters over here. Who has it been good for ? Just our own free loading billionaires and their associated hangers on . Second question ' Why do people call him LLoyd ; as if they know him? He wouldn't give them the time of day.
Hard to get your point here re Lloyd Williams other than to show that you seem to  carry rather a large chip on your shoulder.
His imported stayers do carry a lot of interest for a lot of people and there is no doubt  his horses are going to be big players in the spring.

"Lloyd" is just his identification and for sure he would not be giving me the time of day.

If I had a little gripe about him it would be as a casino owner ......some of his wealth would have been acquired from the misery of many.
However with the the TAB's mantra of " if you are silly enough to put your money on a little man with a big stick riding a horse, we will give you every opportunity to do so " there is little difference.

I'll no doubt be backing one of his horses in the cup, and for me he is able to keep my dwindling interest in this game alive.

Offline Dave

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« 2017-Aug-15, 02:04 AM Reply #32 »
I don't like the overseas horses coming in for our Cup either...........but nothing against the horses, I am not racist against horses from overseas.........just connections..............I don't like it being turned into a Claytons handicap either...............I am not a real fan of Lloyd Williams as he has enough already..........but at least he is Australian, he cherishes the Melbourne Cup.......gotta respect him for that.........he is our big hope of keeping the Cup here

Offline specialweek2

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« 2017-Aug-15, 08:45 AM Reply #33 »
They make a new cup for every running.
« Last Edit: 2017-Aug-24, 07:01 PM by specialweek2 »

Offline firezuki

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« 2017-Aug-18, 06:27 AM Reply #34 »
Overseas horses have made the Cup infinitely better IMO. 


If they mostly second stringers, it only highlights how hopeless our stayers are. 


Gone are the days of postage stamp NZers taking the Cup.


Thank God. 

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Aug-24, 06:45 PM Reply #35 »
Had a few dollars on Hans Holbein in the all in.
With a rating of only 95 might take a miracle to get in, but he is a very good horse on soft ground.

Resumes at Moonee Valley on Saturday, 55kgs, barrier 3 and soft ground should have him leading all of the way.

Was good enough to beat Storm The Stars comfortably in the 2015 Chester Vase on a soft 7.

 

Offline j.r.b.

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« 2017-Sep-13, 08:40 AM Reply #36 »
Despite the gilt edged 58kgs invitation to run, Order of St George is far more likely to to the Arc apparently.

No surprise there - he ran very well for 3rd there last year, so obviously handles Chantilly, plus he's more likely to get his favoured ground. The Arc is also looking very weak this year outside of the fav Enable. If O of St G were to win an Arc, he's be a viable flat stallion for Coolmore, at least to start with. At the moment, he's looking like a National Hunt stallion prospect.  A Melb Cup win wouldn't do anything to change that.

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Sep-13, 01:25 PM Reply #37 »
Virtually confirmed he will not be coming. He could win the next 3 Arcs and he would still be serving National Hunt mares when he goes to stud.


Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Sep-13, 10:05 PM Reply #38 »
Despite Greg Carpenter inviting horses into the race it is not attracting the best or remotely the best from Europe and certainly not from Japan.

Stop with the nonsense and start handicapping the race properly.


Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-13, 10:27 PM Reply #39 »
Exactly right Authorized. Stop pandering to these overseas billionaires and our own home grown Casino vultures who have amassed the capital to buy the European second raters and return the " Race that stops the Nation " to its own Nation. Make it a fair dinkum handicap again. Personally I loved the race when horses like Kiwi, Gatum Gatum, Think Big etc won the Cup. That is what made it different. We didn't , and still don't need the knobs from the other side of the World to influence how we run our horse racing. The only ones who do are the greedy old breeders who have their own agenda to promote.

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Sep-14, 05:13 PM Reply #40 »

Johnny Ward

Willie Mullins is hoping to run three horses in the Emirates Melbourne Cup on November 7, while Riven Light is to head to Australia too for a possible Cox Plate clash with wondermare Winx.

Mullins went agonisingly close to Melbourne glory two years ago with Max Dynamite, while Wicklow Brave and Thomas Hobson are also to head Down Under as Mullins takes aim at the "race that stops a nation".

"They'll earn more money out there than they will over here jumping and if I could I'd run the three of them in the Melbourne Cup," said Mullins, whose Riven Light won his third Flat race of the campaign at Listowel yesterday.

"Riven Light went on the ground well and just didn't really take to hurdling," he said. "He heads to Newmarket ahead of his quarantine before Australia. Before any Cox Plate, there are more realistic aspirations to go for."

Winx will be bidding for a third successive win in the Cox Plate, which has gone the way of horses such as Makybe Diva, So You Think and Helmet.

It has been a deeply frustrating year for Barry Geraghty, who missed the Cheltenham and Punchestown Festivals, but he is almost ready to return after his latest injury setback.

Geraghty sustained a hairline fracture of his shoulder blade in a fall at Killarney recently and said yesterday: "I've just talked with our chiropractor, it's improving and I'd be hoping for the weekend after this one to return."

Geraghty only returned from a spell on the sidelines at the Galway Festival after being off since April with a broken arm sustained in a fall from Minella Foru in the Irish Grand National at Fairyhouse. He was forced out of this year's Cheltenham Festival when suffering lung and rib injuries in a fall at Kempton in February. He also broke his other arm in a fall at Market Rasen last July. He turns 38 on Saturday.

Geraghty's colleague Davy Russell was on hand at Listowel as part of his role in Jim Bolger's recent Hurling For Cancer Research charity match which raised €160,000 this year.

In its sixth year, Bolger's charity hurling clash in Newbridge attracted around 4,000 people this year and this incentive has now raised over €700,000 for research into cancer.

Una Manning, Bolger's daughter-in-law who has had a huge role in the organisation of the math, and Russell presented the cheque to Emma Hayden from the Irish Cancer Society.

Bolger said: "We enjoyed a phenomenal game of hurling this year with the largest attendance and the highest scoring game since its inception.

"However, the biggest victory of all is raising so much money to support the Irish Cancer Society's cancer research. It is a disease that has unfortunately touched almost every family in Ireland.

"One way we can fight back against the disease is through cancer research, and by discovering new and better ways to diagnose and treat cancer.

"It's heartening to see so many sporting legends take to the pitch and show their support for the work of the Irish Cancer Society."

Meanwhile, Joseph O'Brien brings over three horses to Doncaster today as the William Hill St Leger Festival commences, while his father Aidan runs Sizzling in the Group Two May Hill Stakes. Ryan Moore takes the mount on the filly, rewarded for her consistency when winning at Tipperary.

Detailed, trained by Joseph, tackles Aidan's Wild Irish Rose in the Group Two DFS Park Hill Stakes.

Irish Independent


Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Sep-17, 12:27 PM Reply #41 »
There is no doubt in the world that Almandin has an incredible set of lungs on him.
Watching him after the race he would not have blown out a candle and was fresh enough to even play up on Oliver.

Feel a little silly for not having a running double going with Humidor yesterday but now same as last year, I'm  going to be putting any spare cash on him in the all in and hope Lloyd can keep him sound.
« Last Edit: 2017-Sep-17, 12:33 PM by nemisis »

Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-17, 07:50 PM Reply #42 »
Oh I didn't realize "Lloyd " or whatever his name is actually the trainer. Perna and his cronies bang on about "integrity " but here we have one of the Nation's wealthiest citizens just thumbing his nose at them. I 'll bet if they got wind that that Billy from Bullamacanka was training without a license they would be all over him like fleas on a dog .Different strokes for different folks it seems in Victoria.

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Sep-17, 08:47 PM Reply #43 »
Oh I didn't realize "Lloyd " or whatever his name is actually the trainer. Perna and his cronies bang on about "integrity " but here we have one of the Nation's wealthiest citizens just thumbing his nose at them. I 'll bet if they got wind that that Billy from Bullamacanka was training without a license they would be all over him like fleas on a dog .Different strokes for different folks it seems in Victoria.

I will attempt a civilised conversation  :x:

The only integrity issue that would arise out of the situation is if a drug issue came up. Will Hickmott cop the full wrath.

I can not see any issue at all with a owner having 100% say in when and where his horse races.

Another integrity issue might be pacemakers.


Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-17, 09:26 PM Reply #44 »
Authorized, Why do we have a trainer licensing process ? If it is irrelevant, then get rid of it. The simple facts to anyone  that has even a miniscule knowledge of this situation is that Racing Victoria has a different rule for this bloke as opposed to anyone else. When his horses have returned positive swabs in the past he is simply untouchable because he doesn't have a license.  He just treats Racing Victoria as a complete joke which it has proved to be with the treatment of this bod and one member of his family. "Lloyd" simply doesn't want to be accountable to  an even playing field which the great majority of participants in this Industry have no option but to part of. The Problem with the "Lloyds " of this world and his offspring is that they simply think that they are little more important than your average participant and unfortunately  inaction on the part of Perna and his totally useless staff have let it prosper.

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Sep-17, 09:49 PM Reply #45 »
When have his horses returned a positive swab ?

I know he had one scratched last year or the year before that he new had been treated and had tested before running him.


Offline gunbower

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« 2017-Sep-17, 11:08 PM Reply #46 »
So they have been caught treating their horses with banned substances. You must be on his payroll if you can't see that the way authorities turn a blind eye to this joker is fraught with integrity issues. Gee I might go and get a couple of horses Tomorrow and list a track worker as the trainer and see if Perna and his lackeys care . As I say this fellow is exempt from the scrutiny other licensees must cop every day. Complete joke.

Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Sep-18, 11:59 AM Reply #47 »
The drug that was in his horses system simply had to be out by race day. It was perfectly legal to be used to help in recovery of illness or injury it simply had to be out of the system by the time he was due to race.

Williams took the Vet to court over the incident.


Offline Authorized

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« 2017-Sep-18, 12:02 PM Reply #48 »

Lloyd Williams settles Amralah damages case against vet

‘The office would have done that, it is not something that ­worried me’: lloyd williams.
‘The office would have done that, it is not something that ­worried me’: Lloyd Williams.

Racehorse owner and property developer Lloyd Williams has ­quietly settled a multi-million ­dollar lawsuit with the veterinary surgeon of his horse Amralah after it was scratched from last year’s Melbourne Cup because of a ­positive drug test.

Mr Williams, who is rated a good chance to win his fifth cup ­tomorrow with Bondi Beach, would not comment on the details of the settlement, where he was asking for up to $4.6 million.

He was suing the Ballarat ­Veterinary Clinic and equine specialist Brian Anderson for allegedly injecting Amralah with the banned substance dexamethasone, leading to its expulsion from the $6.4m race it was ­favoured to win.

Mr Williams argued the veterinary surgeon had told him the traces of the drug, used as medicine, would be out of its system before the race, and filed a writ for ­damages last year.

A notice of discontinuance was lodged in the Supreme Court of Victoria on August 29, meaning the matter had been settled.

“The office would have done that, it is not something that ­worried me,” Mr Williams told The Australian.

Mr Williams was among nine plaintiffs in the case, with the lead plaintiff being his son Nicholas.

Their solicitor Nathan Kuperholz said the case was settled on confidential terms.

The solicitor for the defendants, Meridian Lawyers principal Kellie Dell’oro, declined to comment.

The Australian can reveal ­details from the final statement of claim lodged by the plaintiffs on July 29.

They were claiming damages up to $1m for lost prize money in the Melbourne Cup, the Tokyo City Stakes, the Emirates Stakes, the Hong Kong Cup and the Japan Cup. They argued Amralah lost up to $3.6m in value due to its failed drug test.

Mr Williams and others said the disqualification reduced its value from $3m to $100,000 in one fell swoop. They accepted there could be alternative ways to decide the amount owed that could have reduced a potential payout to less than $2m.

For example, the statement said compensation for the initial loss in value of the horse could be as low as $900,000.


Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Sep-19, 05:46 PM Reply #49 »
So they have been caught treating their horses with banned substances. You must be on his payroll if you can't see that the way authorities turn a blind eye to this joker is fraught with integrity issues. Gee I might go and get a couple of horses Tomorrow and list a track worker as the trainer and see if Perna and his lackeys care . As I say this fellow is exempt from the scrutiny other licensees must cop every day. Complete joke.
"Lloyd" is just working the system.
When G Rogerson was listed as the trainer the stewards did in fact put a stop to it.
Not sure how often Rogie poked his head in the joint but he did get to make a "winning trainers" Mel Cup speech.

Lloyd William's training arrangement at the moment would pass any scrutiny that Vic Stewards would have. 

All that aside it's very refreshing to see staying races truly run and whenever Lloyd's  horses are about, that is what you get.
Compare the 2015 MC with the 2016 running.
No hard luck stories from last year.......just dominated by the best stayers.


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