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The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup - Melbourne Cup - Racehorse TALK

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Offline sobig

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« 2018-Oct-21, 02:58 PM Reply #100 »
Big Duke is an import PP

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-21, 03:10 PM Reply #101 »

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Nov-05, 02:02 PM Reply #102 »
No Last 10 Horse Trainer Jockey Barrier Weight
1 x3195x1111 BEST SOLUTION (IRE) Saeed Bin Suroor Pat Cosgrave 6 57.5kg
2 x512433x43 THE CLIFFSOFMOHER (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Ryan Moore 9 56.5kg
3 57x150x11x MAGIC CIRCLE (IRE) Ian Williams Corey Brown 17 56kg
4 5x211250x0 CHESTNUT COAT (JPN) Yoshito Yahagi Yuga Kawada 4 55.5kg
5 1796x4341x MUNTAHAA (IRE) John Gosden Jim Crowley 13 55.5kg
6 144x1132x0 SOUND CHECK (GER) Michael Moroney Jordan Childs 16 55.5kg
7 x6731x7694 WHO SHOT THEBARMAN (NZ) Chris Waller Ben Melham 18 55.5kg
8 5462x02410 ACE HIGH David Payne Tye Angland 22 55kg
9 1x69x2112x MARMELO (GB) Hughie Morrison Hugh Bowman 10 55kg
10 3326x11114 AVILIUS (GB) James Cummings Glyn Schofield 11 54.5kg
11 2x436013x1 YUCATAN (IRE) Aidan O'Brien James McDonald 23 54.5kg
12 56164x5266 AUVRAY (FR) Richard Freedman Tommy Berry 1 54kg
13 13x655x1x3 FINCHE (GB) Chris Waller Zac Purton 15 54kg
14 x5x0x08030 RED CARDINAL (IRE) Darren Weir Damien Oliver 5 54kg
15 21x05x4059 VENGEUR MASQUE (IRE) Michael Moroney Patrick Moloney 2 54kg
16 7829x79401 VENTURA STORM (IRE) David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Mark Zahra 7 54kg
17 2188632x31 A PRINCE OF ARRAN (GB) Charlie Fellowes Michael Walker 20 53kg
18 1x5x005770 NAKEETA (GB) Iain Jardine Regan Bayliss 3 53kg
19 4513x01473 SIR CHARLES ROAD Lance O'Sullivan & Andrew Scott Dwayne Dunn 14 53kg
20 58402x0080 ZACADA (NZ) Murray Baker & Andrew Forsman Damian Lane 24 53kg
21 231130x341 RUNAWAY Gai Waterhouse & Adrian Bott Stephen Baster 12 52kg
22 11113x6327 YOUNGSTAR Chris Waller Craig Williams 8 51.5kg
23 11x24112x CROSS COUNTER (GB) Charlie Appleby Kerrin McEvoy 19 51kg

 :shy:

Offline nemisis

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« 2018-Nov-05, 02:34 PM Reply #103 »
You might need to check out the bona fides of Charles Road PP7.

By Myboycharlie out of a Giant's Causeway mare.......I'm sure he was conceived and sold here.

Can stay a bit too!

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Nov-05, 02:40 PM Reply #104 »
You might need to check out the bona fides of Charles Road PP7.

By Myboycharlie out of a Giant's Causeway mare.......I'm sure he was conceived and sold here.

Can stay a bit too!

This was discussed back in the thread a bit.

We decided only horses that have raced here all their racing careers are eligible - regardless of where they are bred.

That is why horses like Charles Road and Who Shot Thebarman are ineligible.

I'm waiting for the year that will inevitably come where there are no Aussie runners. We went close in 2016

Year 1st Actual Finish 2nd Actual Finish 3rd Actual Finish Actual Winner Notes
2017 Cismontane 13 Amelies Star 14 Boom Time 15 Rekindling
2016 Jameka 15 Insufficient Starters
Insufficient Starters
Almandin
2015 Prince Of Penzance 1 Criterion 3 Gust Of Wind 6 Prince Of Penzance
2014 Signoff 4 Precedence 6 Fawkner 10 Protectionist
2013 Fawkner 6 Ethiopia 7 Super Cool 9 Fiorente
2012 Precedence 9 Niwot 15 Lights Of Heaven 16 Green Moon
2011 Niwot 8 Precedence 11 The Verminator 13 Dunaden
2010 Maluckyday 2 So You Think 3 Zipping 4 Americain
2009 Shocking 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Alcopop 6 Shocking
2008 Viewed 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Moatize 6 Viewed
2007 Efficient 1 Zipping 4 Dolphin Jo 5 Efficient
2006 Maybe Better 3 Zipping 4 Mahtoum 6 Delta Blues
2005 Makybe Diva 1 On A Jeune 2 Leica Falcon 4 Makybe Diva
2004 Makybe Diva 1 Zazzman 3 Elvestroem 4 Makybe Diva
2003 Makybe Diva 1 She's Archie 2 Pentastic 4 Makybe Diva
2002 Mr Prudent 2 Pentastic 5 Rain Gauge 8 Media Puzzle
2001 Rain Gauge 6 Sky Heights 8 Reenact 9 Ethereal
2000 Yippyio 2 Freemason 6 Celestial Show 7 Brew
1999 Rogan Josh 1 Lahar (DH) 3 Zazabelle (DH) 3 Rogan Josh (DH 3rd)
1998 Tie The Knot 6 Skybeau 8 Perpetual Check 9 Jezabeel
1997 Might And Power 1 Markham 3 Linesman 5 Might And Power
1996 Saintly 1 Skybeau 3 Nothin' Leica Dane 5 Saintly
1995 Nothin' Leica Dane 2 Coachwood 5 Beaux Art 6 Doreimus
1994 Paris Lane 2 Alcove 5 Grass Valley 8 Jeune
1993 Frontier Boy 5 Tennessee Jack 6 Our Pompeii 14 Vintage Crop
1992 Subzero 1 Star Of The Realm 7 London Bridge 9 Subzero

Offline ianb

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« 2018-Nov-05, 02:45 PM Reply #105 »
 At least our 3 are genuine Australian horses.

If we had the Kiwi Cup it would also consist of 3 horses - one of which (Sir Charles Road) was born in Australia and another Who Shot The Barman who hasn't seen NZ for 4 or 5 years.


Online PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Nov-06, 02:41 PM Reply #106 »
Year 1st Actual Finish 2nd Actual Finish 3rd Actual Finish Actual Winner Notes
2018 Youngstar 6 Runaway 19 Ace High 20 Cross Counter
2017 Cismontane 13 Amelies Star 14 Boom Time 15 Rekindling
2016 Jameka 15 Insufficient Starters
Insufficient Starters
Almandin
2015 Prince Of Penzance 1 Criterion 3 Gust Of Wind 6 Prince Of Penzance
2014 Signoff 4 Precedence 6 Fawkner 10 Protectionist
2013 Fawkner 6 Ethiopia 7 Super Cool 9 Fiorente
2012 Precedence 9 Niwot 15 Lights Of Heaven 16 Green Moon
2011 Niwot 8 Precedence 11 The Verminator 13 Dunaden
2010 Maluckyday 2 So You Think 3 Zipping 4 Americain
2009 Shocking 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Alcopop 6 Shocking
2008 Viewed 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Moatize 6 Viewed
2007 Efficient 1 Zipping 4 Dolphin Jo 5 Efficient
2006 Maybe Better 3 Zipping 4 Mahtoum 6 Delta Blues
2005 Makybe Diva 1 On A Jeune 2 Leica Falcon 4 Makybe Diva
2004 Makybe Diva 1 Zazzman 3 Elvestroem 4 Makybe Diva
2003 Makybe Diva 1 She's Archie 2 Pentastic 4 Makybe Diva
2002 Mr Prudent 2 Pentastic 5 Rain Gauge 8 Media Puzzle
2001 Rain Gauge 6 Sky Heights 8 Reenact 9 Ethereal
2000 Yippyio 2 Freemason 6 Celestial Show 7 Brew
1999 Rogan Josh 1 Lahar (DH) 3 Zazabelle (DH) 3 Rogan Josh (DH 3rd)
1998 Tie The Knot 6 Skybeau 8 Perpetual Check 9 Jezabeel
1997 Might And Power 1 Markham 3 Linesman 5 Might And Power
1996 Saintly 1 Skybeau 3 Nothin' Leica Dane 5 Saintly
1995 Nothin' Leica Dane 2 Coachwood 5 Beaux Art 6 Doreimus
1994 Paris Lane 2 Alcove 5 Grass Valley 8 Jeune
1993 Frontier Boy 5 Tennessee Jack 6 Our Pompeii 14 Vintage Crop
1992 Subzero 1 Star Of The Realm 7 London Bridge 9 Subzero

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Nov-03, 02:38 AM Reply #107 »
This year's field includes last year's winner.

No Last 10 Horse Trainer Jockey Barrier Weight
1 12x1x1x434 CROSS COUNTER (GB) Charlie Appleby William Buick 5 57.5kg
2 211x11x1x1 MER DE GLACE (JPN) Hisashi Shimizu Damian Lane 2 56kg
3 7250x14335 MASTER OF REALITY (IRE) Joseph O'Brien Frankie Dettori 1 55.5kg
4 2x0x1322x3 MIRAGE DANCER (GB) Trent Busuttin & Natalie Young Ben Melham 13 55.5kg
5 37x3264413 SOUTHERN FRANCE (IRE) Ciaron Maher & David Eustace Mark Zahra 14 55.5kg
6 3344465881 HUNTING HORN (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Seamie Heffernan 11 55kg
7 220x344216 LATROBE (IRE) Joseph O'Brien James McDonald 22 55kg
8 4x1x723516 MUSTAJEER (GB) Kris Lees Damien Oliver 6 55kg
9 251557x790 ROSTROPOVICH (IRE) David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Dwayne Dunn 12 55kg
10 423x2411x7 TWILIGHT PAYMENT (IRE) Joseph O'Brien Hugh Bowman 19 55kg
11 x1x34x5125 FINCHE (GB) Chris Waller Kerrin McEvoy 4 54kg
12 8x49x58321 PRINCE OF ARRAN (GB) Charlie Fellowes Michael Walker 8 54kg
13 1x6x237x4x RAYMOND TUSK (IRE) Richard Hannon Jamie Spencer 3 54kg
14 x196112x31 DOWNDRAFT (IRE) Joseph O'Brien John Allen 15 53.5kg
15 2x53220224 MAGIC WAND (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Ryan Moore 24 53.5kg
16 2x30x80709 NEUFBOSC (FR) David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Luke Nolen 23 53.5kg
17 00x048x070 SOUND (GER) Michael Moroney James Winks 10 53.5kg
18 1514132x41 SURPRISE BABY (NZ) Paul Preusker Jordan Childs 20 53.5kg
19 531x212224 CONSTANTINOPLE (IRE) David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Joao Moreira 7 52.5kg
20 322x17135 IL PARADISO (USA) Aidan O'Brien Wayne Lordan 17 52.5kg
21 x11111x467 STEEL PRINCE (IRE) Anthony Freedman Brett Prebble 16 52.5kg
22 0141x59195 THE CHOSEN ONE (NZ) Murray Baker & Andrew Forsman Tim Clark 18 52kg
23 1x36621x42 VOW AND DECLARE Danny O'Brien Craig Williams 21 52kg
24 x059x87873 YOUNGSTAR Chris Waller Tommy Berry 9 52kg

Offline timw

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« 2020-Apr-13, 03:52 PM Reply #108 »
The Greatest Aussie Melbourne Cup

I recently saw on another website an attempt to effectiveredo what was done by racing.com et al in 2010 (see eg https://www.punters.com.au/news/Full-field-for-fictional-Melbourne-Cup_13046/ for 'Fictional field for the greatest-ever Melbourne Cup - The Greatest Cup Never Run'.

In my case I imagine a race run at set weights for aussie trained horses so Makybe Diva is in the mix.

After the 18 horse field I have included a list of notable omissions and below that a list of horses with superior 2400m for that might be in the mix in a set weight race over 2400m (it follows some of the 3200m horses might have to get the flick if the field were limited to 18 over 2400m.). 


The 18 horse field:

Set Weight Melbourne Cup over 3200m for 4YO&Up    
   
Qualifiation criteria   
   
Horses and geldings to carry 57kg and mares 55kg (Wakeful and Makybe Diva).  This is the basis on which many new international races are now run.   
Field limited to 18 to reduce luck in running as a factor.     
Must have won a cup race over 2 miles or 3200 metres in Australia or New Zealand.  (Capital city cups in Australia and Auckland, Wellington or New Zealand cups if run over 3200m or further. Only Beau Vite and Kindergarten (both Auckland Cup winners) made the field).      
Must have been trained in Australia or New Zealand (note cannot find an ANZ trained horse that competed overseas that won won over an equivalent distance overseas).   
3YO only cup winners omitted as assumed not able to compete against a crack field of older horses carrying set weights.   
Must be a proven WFA winner and have won at WFA over 2000m or further.  In earlier times WFA includes races at WFA with penalties and allowances.  In essence this means horses without a superior win to start record will not qualify.     
The three horses with a win percentage below 50% are Rising Fast (24 wins) 35.3%, Rain Lover (17 wins) 37%, Makybe Diva (15 wins) 41.7%. Dalray had the least number of wins (14) for a win percentage of 51.9%.   
3YO Derby (@2400m.) or St Leger wins (@2800m.) not considered equal to open age WFA wins.   
4YO&Up horses that won a 3200m. cup eliminated in order of lower weight carried to a win.  Highest weighted horse eliminated was Might and Power with 56kg.   
   
The field   
   
Horse                            Cup wins and weights carried (2nds if notable)
   
THE BARB (AUS) 1863   Sydney Cup 56kg, 67kg, Melb. Cup 44kg
CARBINE (NZ) 1885      Melb. Cup 66kg, Sydney Cup 57kg, 61kg
WAKEFUL (AUS) 1896   Sydney Cup 60kg, 2nd Melb Cup 0.75L 63.5kg winner 42kg
POITREL (AUS) 1914   Melb. Cup 63.5kg
EURYTHMIC (AUS) 1916   Sydney Cup 61kg, Perth Cup DH 1st 48.5kg (3YO)
WINDBAG (AUS) 1921   Melb. Cup 58kg
PHAR LAP (NZ) 1926   Melb. Cup 62.5kg
PETER PAN (AUS) 1929   Melb. Cup 47kg (3YO), 62kg
BEAU VITE (NZ) 1936   Auckland Cup 60kg
KINDERGARTEN (NZ) 1937  Auckland Cup 64.5kg
COMIC COURT (AUS) 1945  Melb. Cup 59.5kg
DELTA (AUS) 1946           Melb. Cup 59.5kg
DALRAY (NZ) 1948           Melb. Cup 61kg
RISING FAST (NZ) 1949   Melb. Cup 59.5kg (2nd 63.5kg 0.75L)
TULLOCH (NZ) 1954   Brisbane Cup 62.5kg
GALILEE (NZ) 1962           Sydney Cup 60kg, Melb. Cup 56.5kg
RAIN LOVER (AUS) 1964      Melb. Cup 52kg, 60kg, Adelaide Cup 46kg (3YO)
MAKYBE DIVA (GB) 1999    Melb Cup 51kg 55.5kg, 58kg, Sydney Cup 55.5kg

Notable omissions

TIM WHIFFLER (AUS) 1862
CHESTER (AUS) 1874
ABERCORN (AUS) 1884
GRAND FLANEUR (AUS) 1877
POSEIDON (AUS) 1903
TRAFALGAR (AUS) 1905
HALL MARK (AUS) 1930
SUPER IMPOSE (NZ) 1984
BEAU ZAM (NZ) 1984
LET'S ELOPE (NZ) 1987
SAINTLY (NZ) 1992
TIE THE KNOT (AUS) 1994

Possible inclusions for a 2400m set weight Melbourne Cup.
SAILOR'S GUIDE (AUS) 1952
TOBIN BRONZE (AUS) 1962
DARYL'S JOY (NZ) 1966
GUNSYND (AUS) 1967
LEILANI (NZ) 1970
BALMERINO (NZ) 1972
KINGSTON TOWN (AUS) 1976
STRAWBERRY ROAD (AUS) 1979
BONECRUSHER (NZ) 1982
HORLICKS (NZ) 1983
BETTER LOOSEN UP (AUS) 1985
OCTAGONAL (NZ) 1992
MIGHT AND POWER (NZ) 1993
NORTHERLY (AUS) 1996




Offline wily ole dog

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« 2020-Apr-13, 05:22 PM Reply #109 »
If Kingston Town couldn't make the top 30 I assume he would get the minimum weight and duly shit in  :king:  :no1:

Offline pwa54

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« 2020-Apr-13, 06:49 PM Reply #110 »
Certainly a field of champions Tim.

Redcraze (Brisbane Cup 59kg) might challenge a couple. Super and Beau Zam didn't win a 3200m race but I guess they were intended for the 2400.

The other 3yos to add to the notable omissions might be Newhaven (1893) and Artilleryman (1916). As good as he was, Trafalgar's only 2 mile cup win was the Sydney Cup with 49.5kg. He might be the pretender in that group! Malua won his Cup with 61kg.

I wouldn't mind dropping to 56kg to include Might and Power! But, as with all such simulations, it's an absorbing exercise for anyone interested in racing history.

Offline timw

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« 2020-Apr-13, 07:12 PM Reply #111 »
WOD

I was on Kingston Town when he ran second in the 1982 cup by a neck with 59kg and had no complaints with Johnston's ride - if he had 58kg victory may have been his noting he was 6/1 so what odds would he have been with 58kg. In 1981 he ran 20th of 22 with 60.5kg at 13/2.  While i have no doubt he would win a set weight cup in his era with 57kg on his back I had to make the cut somewhere to get the field down to 18.  The racing.com fictional Melbourne Cup never had him in the field either for the obvious reason he never won it. I still rate him in the top 10 ever to have raced and I had to leave quite a few of my favourites out as you do in a 'simulation' with set criteria.  PS if anyone finds any errors in my 'maths' let me know.   

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2020-Apr-13, 09:42 PM Reply #112 »
Fully understand Tim, just defending my boy :no1:

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2020-Apr-13, 09:44 PM Reply #113 »
Itís so hard with all of those old timers since we never saw them.
Including the internationals what sort of field could be conjured up since, say, 1980 or 90 to which weíve seen them all

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Apr-13, 09:49 PM Reply #114 »
I would make a case for Reckless in a 3200m Cup - or at the very least a notable omission.

He won the Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide Cups when they were Principal 3200m races, and ran 2nd in the Melbourne Cup and 3rd in the Perth Cup - both 3200m at the time.

All of these races were scheduled as Group 1's when the system was adopted.

I believe this achievement has never been matched.

And if we are including New Zealanders, I thought Apollo Eleven might be a candidate as well. His achievements were mainly in NZ and Sydney, but Pollard describes Apollo Eleven as "one of the best New Zealand has ever produced" and that his "performance in winning the 1973 Sydney Cup remains one of the most outstanding runs ever seen in Australia".

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Apr-13, 10:01 PM Reply #115 »
Canberra Times article following the win of Apollo Eleven in the Sydney Cup



He did go on to meet Gunsynd the following Saturday in the QE2, and beat the great grey into 2nd place capping a "Surround like" autumn in Sydney 1973.

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Apr-13, 10:16 PM Reply #116 »
And I didn't post this table post race. These are the results when overseas horses are excluded.

Year 1st Actual Finish 2nd Actual Finish 3rd Actual Finish Actual Winner Notes
2019 Vow And Declare 1 Surprise Baby 5 Youngstar 20 Vow And Declare
2018 Youngstar 6 Runaway 19 Ace High 20 Cross Counter
2017 Cismontane 13 Amelies Star 14 Boom Time 15 Rekindling
2016 Jameka 15 Insufficient Starters
Insufficient Starters
Almandin
2015 Prince Of Penzance 1 Criterion 3 Gust Of Wind 6 Prince Of Penzance
2014 Signoff 4 Precedence 6 Fawkner 10 Protectionist
2013 Fawkner 6 Ethiopia 7 Super Cool 9 Fiorente
2012 Precedence 9 Niwot 15 Lights Of Heaven 16 Green Moon
2011 Niwot 8 Precedence 11 The Verminator 13 Dunaden
2010 Maluckyday 2 So You Think 3 Zipping 4 Americain
2009 Shocking 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Alcopop 6 Shocking
2008 Viewed 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Moatize 6 Viewed
2007 Efficient 1 Zipping 4 Dolphin Jo 5 Efficient
2006 Maybe Better 3 Zipping 4 Mahtoum 6 Delta Blues
2005 Makybe Diva 1 On A Jeune 2 Leica Falcon 4 Makybe Diva
2004 Makybe Diva 1 Zazzman 3 Elvestroem 4 Makybe Diva
2003 Makybe Diva 1 She's Archie 2 Pentastic 4 Makybe Diva
2002 Mr Prudent 2 Pentastic 5 Rain Gauge 8 Media Puzzle
2001 Rain Gauge 6 Sky Heights 8 Reenact 9 Ethereal
2000 Yippyio 2 Freemason 6 Celestial Show 7 Brew
1999 Rogan Josh 1 Lahar (DH) 3 Zazabelle (DH) 3 Rogan Josh (DH 3rd)
1998 Tie The Knot 6 Skybeau 8 Perpetual Check 9 Jezabeel
1997 Might And Power 1 Markham 3 Linesman 5 Might And Power
1996 Saintly 1 Skybeau 3 Nothin' Leica Dane 5 Saintly
1995 Nothin' Leica Dane 2 Coachwood 5 Beaux Art 6 Doreimus
1994 Paris Lane 2 Alcove 5 Grass Valley 8 Jeune
1993 Frontier Boy 5 Tennessee Jack 6 Our Pompeii 14 Vintage Crop
1992 Subzero 1 Star Of The Realm 7 London Bridge 9 Subzero

Offline Antitab#

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« 2020-Apr-14, 03:22 AM Reply #117 »
2017 would have been particularly disappointing, isnt Makybe Diva a European horse.
« Last Edit: 2020-Apr-14, 03:24 AM by Antitab# »

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2020-Apr-14, 08:36 AM Reply #118 »
This is hypothetical race where the participants are "Australian" horses.

There is a bit of debate about what constitutes an "Aussie" horse.

iiii) It is OK if the horse is bred overseas as long as it has done all (or nearly all) of it's racing here.
[

Therefore MD is Aussie for these purposes

Offline timw

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« 2020-Apr-14, 02:21 PM Reply #119 »
 Apollo Eleven

I looked up Apollo Eleven's record in Peter Pring's "Major Australian Races and Racehorses 1960-1980' and his record isn't that flash.  12 wins from 87 starts.  Only won 2 races in first 3 years of racing.  In 1973 aged 5 he won the Auckland Cup carrying 51.5kg.  He then had 2 unplaced runs before coming to Sydney. In Sydney he won the Tancred then a handicap with 54.5kg, the Chipping Norton with 58kg, the Sydney Cup with 54.5 and the QE Stks with 58.5kg.  Back to NZ it took almost 2 years before he struck form again with a 3rd in the Wellington Cup with 53kg (truly) then next won the Trentham Stakes at WFA before heading to Sydney.  Next start in Sydney he won the Chipping Norton at WFA then 8th in the Sydney Cup with 58.5kg. The Sydney handicapper thought more of him than they did in NZ which may have been a reflection of the low standard of Sydney racing back then. 5 of his 8 best wins were in Sydney (chief wins in NZ were Bay of Plenty Gold Cup 51kg,  Auckland Cup 51.5kg and Trentham Stakes WFA) - go figure.

Cheers

Offline pwa54

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« 2020-Apr-14, 03:00 PM Reply #120 »
I mentioned Redcraze and Malua earlier, but Nightmarch, which won his Cup with 58.5, is another with the necessary record. All 3 could challenge Beau Vite.

Apollo Eleven's Sydney Cup win was a great one and Battle Heights the next year with 58.5 was also impressive. He won the Cox Plate in the same year when Taras Bulba was favourite. He and Reckless should be in a best-of field of the last 50 years.

Offline nemisis

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« 2020-Apr-14, 03:41 PM Reply #121 »
I was living in Auckland in 73  and Apollo Eleven had a reputation in racing as a "Gay Deceiver".
It was the first time I had come across the term.

Here is a piece re Apollo Eleven by Dave Bradford.
'After winning as a 2 yr old, his form slumped at 3 and his only winin 14 starts was in a 6 furlong hack event in Tauranga.
His 4 yr season amounted to 18 starts without a win and because lack lustre racing performances were not in keeping with good training efforts he earned the reputation of being a 'Gay Deceiver.
But when an offending splint was removed from a leg and what had obviously been a source of pain banished, Apollo Eleven in 8 months of the 1972-73 season proved himself to be the bravest of the brave in 2 lands"

That's how I remember him......Very short devastating patch of form.

Never had the warrior status of Battle Heights or Game about him.

« Last Edit: 2020-Apr-14, 03:58 PM by nemisis »

Offline pwa54

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« 2020-Apr-15, 11:46 AM Reply #122 »
Wily, here's an attempt at an Australian field 1980-2020

Hypothetical 3200 metre race with the best Australian stayers 1980-2020.
Must have won over 3200 metres or placed and run at least twice at the distance.
For New Zealanders must have run successfully in Australia.
For internationally bred, must have done a significant amount of their racing in Australia

1.   Makybe Diva
2.   Kingston Town
3.   Might and Power
4.   Doriemus
5.   Saintly
6.   Letís Elope
7.   Super Impose
8.   At Talaq
9.   Efficient
10.   Kiwi
11.   Castletown
12.   Tie the Knot
13.   Fiorente
14.   Ethereal
15.   Jezabeel
16.   Viewed
17.   Who Shot Thebarman
18.   Gurnerís Lane
19.   Vow and Declare
20.   Empire Rose
21.   Subzero
22.   Trissaro
23.   Niwot
24.   Count Chivas

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Apr-15, 02:19 PM Reply #123 »
I was living in Auckland in 73  and Apollo Eleven had a reputation in racing as a "Gay Deceiver".
It was the first time I had come across the term.

Here is a piece re Apollo Eleven by Dave Bradford.
'After winning as a 2 yr old, his form slumped at 3 and his only winin 14 starts was in a 6 furlong hack event in Tauranga.
His 4 yr season amounted to 18 starts without a win and because lack lustre racing performances were not in keeping with good training efforts he earned the reputation of being a 'Gay Deceiver.
But when an offending splint was removed from a leg and what had obviously been a source of pain banished, Apollo Eleven in 8 months of the 1972-73 season proved himself to be the bravest of the brave in 2 lands"

That's how I remember him......Very short devastating patch of form.

Never had the warrior status of Battle Heights or Game about him.

Well I'll let you oldies tell the tale.

I was still in Primary School at the beginning of that season and wasn't following horse racing.

I remember Battle Heights. Won the Metrop aged 10. Seemed to be part of the furniture.

Game????

Offline timw

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« 2020-Apr-15, 05:44 PM Reply #124 »
PP

According to Pring he won the Craven Plate and the Metrop 56.5kg at 9  (so spring 1976) and finished 13th the following year (1977 at 10) after running 3rd in the Craven plate. 

cheers


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