2018 THE EVEREST - The Opera House Discussion - N.S.W Gallops - Racehorse TALK harm-plan

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2018 THE EVEREST - The Opera House Discussion - N.S.W Gallops - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: 2018 THE EVEREST - The Opera House Discussion  (Read 11466 times)

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Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2018-Oct-11, 07:24 PM Reply #250 »
This issue has done wonders for the forum. :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:


Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2018-Oct-11, 07:29 PM Reply #251 »
Some of the posts  have made for interesting reading.

Just like the old days.

Offline arthur

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« 2018-Oct-11, 08:03 PM Reply #252 »
It's an ill wind . . . . . .

Offline tontonan

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« 2018-Oct-11, 08:13 PM Reply #253 »
Yeah, the good old days when the forums were irreverent and funny yet insightful and creative and NEVER in the service of this interest or that.
 
I miss them.

It seems a shame to waste some of these. So I will unload them here rather than send to the ether and say no more about the slot race. 










Offline Gintara

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« 2018-Oct-11, 08:17 PM Reply #254 »
I like the last one Tonto  :thumbsup:   :lol:

Offline nemisis

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« 2018-Oct-11, 08:19 PM Reply #255 »
You know me jfc. Always wanting to learn off you "how to think" so I can mend my ways.

But you banned me from asking you any questions, don't you remember?

And it looks like wily has now been banned also.

How can we be expected to improve our thinking to come more in line with your thoughts, which we all know are so much superior to everyone else's.

Does the ban on asking you any questions have any shelf life?
Setting high standards PP7?

I think any reasonably intelligent neutral observer would acknowledge that jfc is indeed a very smart guy as would most forumites.
The forum is all the better off for having him here.

In any debate I've seen between you and jfc you can barely lay a glove.......know your subject well is the first rule of debate.

I've learned something from his posts so I'll say thanks.
TAB won't like it much because now I spend $20 where I used to spend $200.
« Last Edit: 2018-Oct-11, 08:40 PM by nemisis »

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-11, 09:09 PM Reply #256 »
Setting high standards PP7?

I think any reasonably intelligent neutral observer would acknowledge that jfc is indeed a very smart guy as would most forumites.
The forum is all the better off for having him here.

In any debate I've seen between you and jfc you can barely lay a glove.......know your subject well is the first rule of debate.

I've learned something from his posts so I'll say thanks.
TAB won't like it much because now I spend $20 where I used to spend $200.

From where I sit, there is not the animosity between jfc and I that you make out. We have been giving each other heaps for years and we are both still here. I actually enjoy jfc's presence on the forum. Don't have to agree with someone all the time to appreciate their contributions to the forum. Even if he is wrong 60% of the time it is still worth reading   :lol:

Speaking of contributions to the forum, how about you grow up and stop shit stirring at the personal level. Are you able to make a post without getting personal? If not then maybe it is time you moved on.

As I said before, how about you go through your own posts and try and improve the quality of your contributions. People really aren't interested in you whinging and whining about every little thing that comes into your head.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-11, 09:15 PM Reply #257 »
Vlandys has done a good job with NSW Racing and lifted itís profile considerably. However even Racing NSW as I keep saying has finally admitted it underestimated the backlash and will not do it again.

AJ admitted to an apology of sorts while Gladys has stated she will rethink the policy etc. The only one who has not stated anything yet is Vlandys. Vlandys wrote a piece in SMH which stated the Everest was not about gambling when he defended the sails ads which was laughable as it was before the Everest Vivid show. I am yet to see anyone defend this or his supporters admit this was wrong which shows a warped sense of reality.

Now I am a Sydneysider but think all OH advertising is wrong as no boundaries are set. I am not the only who thinks that and nor do I have a dislike of Vlandys as his supporters think of anyone who does not agree with his views.

This episode has hurt a few reputations and it will time to fix in the eyes of the general public.

Hypothetical for you Jeunes.

If they said no to the Opera House, and PVL then asked if he could do the promotion at the beach, complete with sponsor's signs, what do you think would be the reply?


....

Alan Jones apologized for his rudeness. I heard the interview and there was no such threats or rudeness from PVL. Can you tell us what he should be apologizing for???

This thread has failed to differentiate between the conversation that went on between Jones and Herron, and the request to use the Opera House for a brief period to conduct the barrier draw. They are two completely different issues.

To me that is typical social media "flaming". Just chuck enough mud at the door and some will stick. Seems to be the norm.
« Last Edit: 2018-Oct-11, 09:23 PM by PoisonPen7 »

Offline gunbower

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« 2018-Oct-11, 09:42 PM Reply #258 »
Tontonan , Enjoyed your post . Very amusing and I love your description of the race as " slot race ". I think that is what some of the willing devotees of the Everest are missing. Sure not every winner of  the " Race that stops a Nation " has a feel good story about it.
But remember the school teacher who sent her horse to Bart Cummings and won a Melbourne Cup , Snowy Lupton and Kiwi, Les Bridge, Larry Olsen and Kensei and of course the girl who won a Melbourne Cup on a bolter. They are the real stories and character of Australian Horse Racing. It is that history that Australians associate with this wonderful sport , not the purchasing of slots by assorted Triad gangs , Arab Sheiks , Corporate  bookmakers who will claim tax deductions for their involvement. And then we have characters like PP who tell other Forum Members to wander off into the sunset because they have a view different to his own.  Go figure.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-11, 09:45 PM Reply #259 »
And then we have characters like PP who tell other Forum Members to wander off into the sunset because they have a view different to his own.  Go figure.

Your comments toward timw the other day warranted an apology IMO. He works his guts out for this forum in collecting and supplying stats on his own time and to get this from you is pretty lame.

WOW !!!! Isn't that interesting ? In other words , Who gives a toss ?

...and I didn't ask nemesis to "wander off into the sunset because he has a view different to his mine". I have asked him to be not so negative all the time.

The term "troll" comes to mind........  :chin:
« Last Edit: 2018-Oct-11, 09:53 PM by PoisonPen7 »

Offline Jeunes

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« 2018-Oct-11, 10:19 PM Reply #260 »
Hypothetical for you Jeunes.

If they said no to the Opera House, and PVL then asked if he could do the promotion at the beach, complete with sponsor's signs, what do you think would be the reply?


....

Alan Jones apologized for his rudeness. I heard the interview and there was no such threats or rudeness from PVL. Can you tell us what he should be apologizing for???

This thread has failed to differentiate between the conversation that went on between Jones and Herron, and the request to use the Opera House for a brief period to conduct the barrier draw. They are two completely different issues.

To me that is typical social media "flaming". Just chuck enough mud at the door and some will stick. Seems to be the norm.

PP, I would have no objections to anything on the beach etc if they have council approval etc. OH is a different kettle of fish and I would not care who the adverts were for.

If you read my post, I never said Vlandys had to apologise. I stated he had not stated anything while AJ apologised and Gladys said there will be a rethink and a Racing NSW said they will not do it again.

I also noticed you made no comment regarding Vlandys and that promotion of the Everest was not promoting gambling. Yet they suspended betting on Tuesday for an event that was not was gambling.

PP, you seem like an intelligent person when I read your posts on some of the topics but when it comes to Vílandys, you seem very one eyed.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-11, 11:06 PM Reply #261 »
PP, I would have no objections to anything on the beach etc if they have council approval etc. OH is a different kettle of fish and I would not care who the adverts were for.

If you read my post, I never said Vlandys had to apologise. I stated he had not stated anything while AJ apologised and Gladys said there will be a rethink and a Racing NSW said they will not do it again.

I also noticed you made no comment regarding Vlandys and that promotion of the Everest was not promoting gambling. Yet they suspended betting on Tuesday for an event that was not was gambling.

PP, you seem like an intelligent person when I read your posts on some of the topics but when it comes to Vílandys, you seem very one eyed.

Hi Jeunes and thanks for your polite reply. Always happy to take the time to answer your posts with a bit of detail.

***

That last statement implies that you have to be either "for" or "against" V'Landys.

I (and a lot of country folk involved in horse racing) appreciate what he has done for the sport there. I suppose that appreciation can turn into the appearance for being "pro V'Landys" all the time if such a classification exists.

When The Everest was first proposed I stated on this forum that it should not be allowed to be advertised as "the richest turf race in the world" because of the way they get the prizemoney. Furthermore I also stated that I did not think the race should be eligible for black type - not unlike the Magic Millions. It should carry the same level i.e. Listed Restricted.

Funny how people don't remember that i.e. I have not always agreed with PVL.

But as we all know advertisers rule the world and the mainstream media and even the racing media now describe it as "the richest turf race in the world" so I have stopped trying. A bit like Melbourne describing itself as "The Events Capital Of The World". We all have to cop the bull.

****

You made a point of saying that I did not comment about the promotion of gambling? I think I did, and quite strongly.

The hypocrisy of using the excuse of "promotion of gambling" to stop the event has to be made.

Australia has 2.3% of the world's population and 20% of the world's poker machines. How on earth people can act as advocates for anti-gambling by punishing the Everest event without mentioning the poker machine menace is beyond me. It implies that they are being disingenuous. Not to mention the fact that you hear corporate bookmaker ads all the time on radio. In terms of "gambling promotion" The Everest is a fly in the ointment - wouldn't you agree?

********

I don't understand the point you are making about PVL not saying anything. He is not Alan Jones. He did not speak Alan Jones' words. Why does he have to say anything?

****

The beach thing was my way of pointing out the hypocrisy of those who object to the use of the Opera House on aesthetic grounds.

****

There seems to be many moving parts here all munged into one to give the appearance of something out of control - typical social media slamming.

i) There are those who objected to the use of the Opera House on aesthetic grounds ("It is not a billboard").

ii) There are those who objected to the Opera House being used on the grounds that it promotes gambling.

iii) There is the issue of Alan Jones being rude (almost abusive) toward Louise Herron. I was the first one on the forum to call for Jones to apologize - yet another thing that seems to be forgotten.

iv) There are those who are always on this forum bagging Peter V'Landys - doesn't matter what it is he does. You called me "pro V'Landys". It implies that I am right and there are "anti V'Landys" factions. Is this not correct? Can you please acknowledge that the opposite is true?

***

As I said. A lot of moving parts that make things ripe for a social media slamming campaign where detail goes out the door.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2018-Oct-12, 12:03 AM Reply #262 »
I might disagree with some of your views but I agree with you in regards to the saturation of gambling ads and pokies. It is ridiculous and scary that school kids know who is favs for the footy and which teams to back etc

I honestly think there should be a commission or inquiry into the gambling, pokies and casinos etc However we know that all governments will never kill a golden goose.

Vílandys has done good things for racing especially for lifting the profile of NSW racing. I have always stated that but in this he polarised people especially on his insistence on OH and it has not been helped largely due to AJ. 

It will be interesting how the next few years of the Everest plays out as this yearís OH has really lifted the profile of the race. The question is the party and racing regulars donít care but will the Social gamblers care about the race in the future. I am not sure.

Vílandys like many in his position will have fans and opponents so his decisions analysed more. Under his watch, racing has improved but continued invention of new races does take the sails out of certain races especially those at Rosehill.

PP, we may disagree at times but we will still like all races.

Online jfc

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« 2018-Oct-12, 05:05 AM Reply #263 »
Alan Jones apologized for his rudeness. I heard the interview and there was no such threats or rudeness from PVL. Can you tell us what he should be apologizing for???

This thread has failed to differentiate between the conversation that went on between Jones and Herron, and the request to use the Opera House for a brief period to conduct the barrier draw. They are two completely different issues.

I'm now listening to that interview again.

"Louise ..... support. There is none for what you are doing. None,"

80% ...none
potayto ... potahto

There are also very many people who don't buy the Jones fauxpology.

Remember that everything Louise Herron was trying to say was correct. She was entirely consistent with the Opera House charter.

The V'landys contribution was to effectively call her a liar and obfuscate what he was planning to splash on the sails. He had conveniently failed to inform her of the precise material, trying to force her to approve something she had not seen.

My bet is he was planning to sneak something in.

Seems to me that deserves an apology.

But I'm not holding my breath as he has yet to apologise to me for breaking his outfit's confidentiality rules.

Online jfc

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« 2018-Oct-12, 06:11 AM Reply #264 »

Offline Antitab#

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« 2018-Oct-12, 08:51 AM Reply #265 »
I donít comprehend how anybody in racing could be against the Everest concept and the interest that it has  garnered with non racing people..

Itís fantastic to have great racing in Sydney and Melbourne on the same day.

In terms of turnover, tomorrow could well  surpass Derby Day as the second largest of the year and after all itís turnover that funds racing.

The Opera House sub plot has only increased interest.

Itís been a great result for Raciing NSW but also Racing Vic because Caulfield will also experience increased wagering.

Every one is a winner, except Alan Jones who has further displayed his ugly arrogance.


Offline wily ole dog

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« 2018-Oct-12, 08:53 AM Reply #266 »

This thread has failed to differentiate between the conversation that went on between Jones and Herron, and the request to use the Opera House for a brief period to conduct the barrier draw. They are two completely different issues.

To me that is typical social media "flaming". Just chuck enough mud at the door and some will stick. Seems to be the norm.

Yes mate, itís totally lost in me how seemingly sensible people canít make that distinction  :wacko:

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2018-Oct-12, 09:01 AM Reply #267 »


Remember that everything Louise Herron was trying to say was correct. She was entirely consistent with the Opera House charter.


Im staggered you can say that.

Given what has previously been allowed by the OH people there is no reason not to have the Everest display that we saw the other night

Once again, we had fcking Hugh Jackman crawling all over the thing on a fly fox.
That ended any claims about not wanting to miss use the great old building

Online jfc

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« 2018-Oct-12, 09:33 AM Reply #268 »
Louise Herron can and does get overruled.

No evidence has been presented that she has ever violated the charter.

As for your continuing uninformed beef against Hugh (happy 50th) and Oprah.

Are you fucking insane!

As far as I can tell the sails predominantly viewed are from the Bridge side.

Whereas the foreground is not part of the view. Every visitor happy snaps the sails, not the foreground.

It is used for any number of commercial promotions.

As well as affording certain types to dump plastic rubbish into the water.

Why would Hugh abseil up when there are stairs or lifts!

Why is there no vision of that sin!

And he started beneath the sails for a ~10 second intended trip.

Despite crap weather and an economic crisis this episode and initiative was a phenomenal success.





Not sure which side was used.

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2018-Oct-12, 09:36 AM Reply #269 »
Jackman was a stunt that trashed the joints image far worse than anything the Everest has
It was cringeworthy
« Last Edit: 2018-Oct-12, 09:37 AM by wily ole dog »

Online jfc

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« 2018-Oct-12, 11:08 AM Reply #270 »
I donít comprehend how anybody in racing could be against the Everest concept and the interest that it has  garnered with non racing people..

Maybe I can assist.

It is an insane concept.

If it was conducted fairly and objectively potential slot holders would realise they are on a hiding to nothing - unless they were in the Top 4 for clout.

Therefore the slots would never fill.

So V'landys bullies his cohorts like ATC, Tabcorp to become fake slotholders to fill the slots.

Using our money of course.

The $300,000 for turning up means that $3,600,000 prizemoney is fake.

Remove that and it's nowhere near that rich.

But the $300,000 is handy for artificially inflating runners earnings.

The name "Everest" is a joke. It should be either the Kosciuszko or K2.

The crowd is fake. These ignorant substance abusers/white collar criminals won't turn up on other days and will drive true racegoers away.

Until the light rail works Randwick resembles Mosul.

Randwick facilities suck. Mosul with Portaloos.

It is an unfair attack on Caulfield and Melbourne. Where do the jockeys ride?

Alan Jones' tirade was full of lies.

The truth is neither he or we or Gladys or ScoMo knows about heritage requirements.

$100 million to the economy!

The Triads will enjoy the extra turnover from Everest connections.

Remind me if I've forgotten something.





Offline nemisis

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« 2018-Oct-12, 11:09 AM Reply #271 »
Hi Jeunes and thanks for your polite reply. Always happy to take the time to answer your posts with a bit of detail.

***

That last statement implies that you have to be either "for" or "against" V'Landys.

I (and a lot of country folk involved in horse racing) appreciate what he has done for the sport there. I suppose that appreciation can turn into the appearance for being "pro V'Landys" all the time if such a classification exists.

When The Everest was first proposed I stated on this forum that it should not be allowed to be advertised as "the richest turf race in the world" because of the way they get the prizemoney. Furthermore I also stated that I did not think the race should be eligible for black type - not unlike the Magic Millions. It should carry the same level i.e. Listed Restricted.

Funny how people don't remember that i.e. I have not always agreed with PVL.

But as we all know advertisers rule the world and the mainstream media and even the racing media now describe it as "the richest turf race in the world" so I have stopped trying. A bit like Melbourne describing itself as "The Events Capital Of The World". We all have to cop the bull.

****

You made a point of saying that I did not comment about the promotion of gambling? I think I did, and quite strongly.

The hypocrisy of using the excuse of "promotion of gambling" to stop the event has to be made.

Australia has 2.3% of the world's population and 20% of the world's poker machines. How on earth people can act as advocates for anti-gambling by punishing the Everest event without mentioning the poker machine menace is beyond me. It implies that they are being disingenuous. Not to mention the fact that you hear corporate bookmaker ads all the time on radio. In terms of "gambling promotion" The Everest is a fly in the ointment - wouldn't you agree?

********

I don't understand the point you are making about PVL not saying anything. He is not Alan Jones. He did not speak Alan Jones' words. Why does he have to say anything?

****

The beach thing was my way of pointing out the hypocrisy of those who object to the use of the Opera House on aesthetic grounds.

****

There seems to be many moving parts here all munged into one to give the appearance of something out of control - typical social media slamming.

i) There are those who objected to the use of the Opera House on aesthetic grounds ("It is not a billboard").

ii) There are those who objected to the Opera House being used on the grounds that it promotes gambling.

iii) There is the issue of Alan Jones being rude (almost abusive) toward Louise Herron. I was the first one on the forum to call for Jones to apologize - yet another thing that seems to be forgotten.

iv) There are those who are always on this forum bagging Peter V'Landys - doesn't matter what it is he does. You called me "pro V'Landys". It implies that I am right and there are "anti V'Landys" factions. Is this not correct? Can you please acknowledge that the opposite is true?

***

As I said. A lot of moving parts that make things ripe for a social media slamming campaign where detail goes out the door.
Point 3   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

What an absolute phony you are!

Take yourself back over to page 3 and look at your comments a few minutes after I posted that appalling piece of radio.
You were so quick to put shit on me you appear to have Alan's back :whistle:
That's ok though because 2GB were right behind their main man as well at that time......disappeared now though....gutless!

At first I was prepared to cut V'Landys a little slack but listening the 2nd time he is almost as gutless.

Even now you are saving your strongest language for Louise Herron [apart from those who disagree with you of course]


Offline wily ole dog

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« 2018-Oct-12, 11:46 AM Reply #272 »
Sorry Nem but I have t seen anyone condone Jones disgusting outburst. PP included

Offline Gintara

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« 2018-Oct-12, 12:05 PM Reply #273 »


Once again, we had fcking Hugh Jackman crawling all over the thing on a fly fox.
That ended any claims about not wanting to miss use the great old building

Not to mention plenty of those holding torches probably cheered when a few 'Greens' ratbags climbed it and took to it with a paint can  :shutup:

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-12, 01:20 PM Reply #274 »
Point 3   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

What an absolute phony you are!

Take yourself back over to page 3 and look at your comments a few minutes after I posted that appalling piece of radio.
You were so quick to put shit on me you appear to have Alan's back :whistle:
That's ok though because 2GB were right behind their main man as well at that time......disappeared now though....gutless!

At first I was prepared to cut V'Landys a little slack but listening the 2nd time he is almost as gutless.

Even now you are saving your strongest language for Louise Herron [apart from those who disagree with you of course]

From the Alan Jones Comments thread on the Soap Box on October 8th

There is a link to his full response on the site.

He goes on to blame everyone else.

I heard the interview and he was very rude.

It was nothing to do with gender. He is just a cranky old man and is rude to a lot of people. Should be thinking of retiring.

But the argument goes that it is promoting gambling.

How anyone can say this in a place that has more poker machines per head than any other place in the world is beyond me.  :what:

...and on October 9th:


Jones was very rude to her to the point it "crossed the line in the sand".

If he cannot see this (and it appears this way from his rant posted as a response) then maybe it is time he is written off as a "silly old bugger". Time to let him rant to his fellow residents in the Old Age Home - he is 77 and looks every year of that.


I just went through page 3 and found no post of mine condoning Jones' behaviour - my posts on that page were pointing out the hypocrisy of using the excuse of "it promotes gambling" whilst those taking that line do not seem to realize that Poker Machines are a much larger menace - a point I have consistently made.

In fact those who argued that the Opera House should not be used for aesthetic reasons have much more validity in their argument than those who disingenuously claim that it promoters gambling - given the bombardment of ads from corporates and TAB plus the failure to mention poker machines.

Can you please reproduce my post where I "appear to have Jones' back" from page 3????

In fact I am critical of Jones by casting doubt on his $100 million figure boost to the economy claim.

Alan Jones.

You are probably right. $100 million sounds too exact. Very similar to those figures they trundle out for the amount that things like the Melbourne Cup and the Australian Open "add to the economy". They all sound like bullshit to me.


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