Author Topic: 2018 THE EVEREST - The Opera House Discussion (Read 17669 times)

Jeunes · « 2018-Oct-12, 11:05 PM **Reply #300** »

Quote from: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Oct-12, 10:09 PM

I rarely have an idea of what you are saying so perhaps there is symmetry here

Just on the side, your sentence "Horse racing heavily involves gambling" - I would say this is grammar, up, with which we shall not put.

I am having a go at disingenuous zealots (now there's a new social media term!) who claim they shouldn't use the Opera House to promote racing.

If you are claiming that the Everest draw should not have been made on the side of Opera House because it promotes gambling then you fit into a mutually exclusive set of three criteria:

i) You are using this as an excuse to have a go at Racing NSW head Peter V'Landys. Typically on this forum we know who these people are because we can see from their history that they are always bagging the guy and never have anything kind to say about him in spite of all the good he does - especially for country folk. Without naming them, these people are clearly identified in this thread.

ii) You hate Alan Jones. You are using a protest against the barrier draw being held on the side of the Opera House as a tool to get back at Alan Jones who you hate.

iii) You are an anti-gambling zealot whose accusations of them using the Opera House as some sort of gambling promotion fail to identify and deal with the real gambling menace, Poker Machines. These people however a genuine zealots.

Categories i) and ii) are what I would call "disingenuous zealots".

What category would you be in jfc? I would diagnose you as a Category 1 disingenuous zealot, and prescribe a week at the Nan Tien Bhuddist temple near Wollongong to try and get rid of all that bad karma

What about category 4 for people who believe OH sails should not be used for advertising, thought AJ was wrong with his comments and Vlandys polarised the community by ensuring the Everest OH vivid still went ahead with the support of Gladys.

The temple in Wollongong is well worth a visit and for non NSW residents is a good pit stop if you are heading down the South Coast.

A great part of NSW with some great towns and Mogo Zoo is well worth a detour with Mogo Town a foray into the past.

jfc · « 2018-Oct-13, 05:36 AM **Reply #301** »

Amusing in parts.

Particularly when V'landys claims that being rejected by 80% of NSW and 311,121 petitioners is a marketing coup.

I'd love to hear interviews with all those coming from England to be pissed on from the sky in the Randwick bog.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/losing-the-plot-everest-marketing-is-one-gamble-that-didn-t-pay-off-20181012-p509a5.html

jfc · « 2018-Oct-13, 08:33 AM **Reply #302** »

Quote from: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Oct-12, 10:09 PM

If you are claiming that the Everest draw should not have been made on the side of Opera House because it promotes gambling then you fit into a mutually exclusive set of three criteria:

They are not mutually exclusive! As Jeunes has noted.

Neither are they mutually exhaustive. To save you the embarrassment of clutching at that cop out.

Your whole post is more useless nonsense.

An attempt to sound clever which has backfired uglily.

I already stated my positions about these matters a number of times.

You had every opportunity to challenge any of them but didn't.

And your post is a reminder of your faults.

Bubbasmith · « 2018-Oct-13, 08:34 AM **Reply #303** »

Quote from: jfc on 2018-Oct-13, 05:36 AM

Amusing in parts.

Particularly when V'landys claims that being rejected by 80% of NSW and 311,121 petitioners is a marketing coup.

I'd love to hear interviews with all those coming from England to be pissed on from the sky in the Randwick bog.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/losing-the-plot-everest-marketing-is-one-gamble-that-didn-t-pay-off-20181012-p509a5.html

Peter FitzSimons, The New York Times

...give me a break

nemisis · « 2018-Oct-13, 08:40 AM **Reply #304** »

Quote from: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Oct-12, 09:34 PM

Can I get a "thanks and I stand corrected" over your false claim that I supported Alan Jones?

So your false accusation of me supporting Alan Jones is my fault because I did not let you know that I listened to the interview before you opened your mouth.

Do you have even the remotest idea how silly you look in all this

What's that old saying....best to keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt

No there is nothing I have said to you that needs correcting.

Another day and yet another late night insult....at least you have been consistent.

My crime here is that I posted the Alan Jones interview while you thought it wasn't relevant enough to post.

You couldn't handle the fact there was some shared opinion about the race that was different to yours.
When your feeble responses such as Magic Millions,greyhounds and jump racing failed and as did your attempts to direct the topic around more to your liking with petulant title changes and more title changes you completely embarrassed yourself by trying to shift it over to the soapbox.
Do you get the feeling some here won't be dictated to?

Any way with the old adage 'when it's wet don't bet' springing to mind on Everest day there's a couple of good races at Caulfield that need my attention.

Maybe tell us the one again about PP7 being first to call the for Alan Jones to apologise.

PoisonPen7 · « 2018-Oct-13, 08:52 AM **Reply #305** »

Quote from: nemisis on 2018-Oct-13, 08:40 AM

No there is nothing I have said to you that needs correcting.

Another day and yet another late night insult....at least you have been consistent.

My crime here is that I posted the Alan Jones interview while you thought it wasn't relevant enough to post.

You couldn't handle the fact there was some shared opinion about the race that was different to yours.
When your feeble responses such as Magic Millions,greyhounds and jump racing failed and as did your attempts to direct the topic around more to your liking with petulant title changes and more title changes you completely embarrassed yourself by trying to shift it over to the soapbox.
Do you get the feeling some here won't be dictated to?

Any way with the old adage 'when it's wet don't bet' springing to mind on Everest day there's a couple of good races at Caulfield that need my attention.

Maybe tell us the one again about PP7 being first to call the for Alan Jones to apologise.

You are starting to ramble.

Here's a tip. Before you hit post, check what you have written.

If it is a rambling post like yours then best to not post it at all. I often check myself and if the post babbles on and on then other people will not read it and there is no point posting.

You don't want to bore people with your own subjective thoughts because they often do not make sense - just like you have done above.

Bubbasmith · « 2018-Oct-13, 09:02 AM **Reply #306** »

Quote from: ratsack on 2018-Oct-12, 09:17 PM

come on you blokes , don't pull the piss

Lexus Stakes
The Lexus Stakes, registered as the Hotham Handicap, is a Victoria Racing Club Group 3 Thoroughbred horse race for horses three years old and older, held under quality handicap conditions, over a distance of 2500 metres, held annually at Flemington Racecourse, Melbourne, Australia on Victoria Derby Day. Total prize money for the race is A$300,000 and $1,500 trophy.
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Bubbasmith · « 2018-Oct-13, 09:14 AM **Reply #307** »

Quote from: ratsack on 2018-Oct-12, 09:17 PM

come on you blokes , don't pull the piss

Lexus Stakes
The Lexus Stakes, registered as the Hotham Handicap, is a Victoria Racing Club Group 3 Thoroughbred horse race for horses three years old and older, held under quality handicap conditions, over a distance of 2500 metres, held annually at Flemington Racecourse, Melbourne, Australia on Victoria Derby Day. Total prize money for the race is A$300,000 and $1,500 trophy.

The Hotham Handicap ( Lexus ) was named after Sir Charles Hotham, Governor of Victoria 1854–55. Mount Hotham is also named after the same gentleman.

The race at Flemington has always being known as "The Hotham Handicap", whereas the Ballarat race is simply "The Hotham "..hope that clears up any confusion. No, winning The Hotham, does not gain automatic entry into The Race" that stops the nation".

wily ole dog · « 2018-Oct-14, 12:33 PM **Reply #308** »

Quote from: wily ole dog on 2018-Oct-12, 04:01 PM

Some fools have suggested that jones supported the OH promo due to him having shares in the stallion Snitzel and he will benefit by Redzel winning.

It’s laughable in its ignorance/stupidity or dishonesty.
Snitzel stands at 220k, is in high demand (fully booked?) and is at the top of his game.
A win in the Everest won’t increase his value/stud fees or Jones profit sheet one iota. Only his reputation which is already secured as a super sire

Well, there you go. Apparently it was all rigged and Jones has cleaned up massively. I suspect hundreds of thousands of dollars have flooded into his coffers overnight

JWesleyHarding · « 2018-Oct-14, 01:04 PM **Reply #309** »

Quote from: wily ole dog on 2018-Oct-12, 04:01 PM

Only his reputation which is already secured as a super sire

I take it you're talking of Snitzel not Jones here Wily.

wily ole dog · « 2018-Oct-14, 01:07 PM **Reply #310** »

Oh yes,

jfc · « 2018-Oct-15, 04:39 PM **Reply #311** »

Kate's racy homage to The Everest mouthpiece.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/alan-jones-the-pyjamas-and-the-ponies-20181012-p509e7.html

wily ole dog · « 2018-Oct-15, 04:49 PM **Reply #312** »

Kate’s just proven she knows bugger all about horse racing

jfc · « 2018-Oct-15, 06:03 PM **Reply #313** »

I trust you'll understand if I don't just take your word for it. If not, tough.

I read it more than once and learned more about Jones' vested interests.

You seem to be the one ignorant f ow the racing caper really works.

Peter Mair · « 2018-Oct-15, 07:16 PM **Reply #314** »

No one is telling us this

No wonder the media are so beholden to the party line from Druitt Street.

Sydney’s commercial media outlets are among the biggest winners from Saturday’s Everest race meeting. In the weeks leading up to the race, three advertisers spent almost $900,000 on print, radio and television ads.

Marketing and media firm Ebiquity put the spend by betting agency TAB, the Australian Turf Club, and the Australian Jockey Club at $867,000, mostly in Sydney media, with much smaller spends in Brisbane and Melbourne, and smaller again in Adelaide and Perth.

The Sydney Morning Herald had almost daily ads, including four front and back page ads, in the two weeks leading up to the race. The Herald and The Daily Telegraph both carried wrap-arounds and lift-outs dedicated to detailed coverage of the race.

Peter Mair · « 2018-Oct-16, 08:26 AM **Reply #315** »

Did the 'take' even cover the cost of the paid advertising?

As the superlatives build the Mexican's Cup is on notice about soon running second.

Even so there is a question about how much RacingNSW took in from TAB takes and bookmaker and racefield levies.

With 'on costs' spending some one-million just on ads is a big bet.

Betting surge sends The Everest through roof with overall turnover to smash through $100m barrier

THE Everest has become the second biggest betting day in Australian racing with overall wagering turnover set to soar over the $100 million barrier.

wily ole dog · « 2018-Oct-16, 01:41 PM **Reply #316** »

THE Everest has become the second biggest betting day in Australian racing with overall wagering turnover set to soar over the $100 million barrier.

nemisis · « 2018-Oct-16, 02:02 PM **Reply #317** »

Quote from: wily ole dog on 2018-Oct-12, 04:01 PM

Some fools have suggested that jones supported the OH promo due to him having shares in the stallion Snitzel and he will benefit by Redzel winning.

It’s laughable in its ignorance/stupidity or dishonesty.
Snitzel stands at 220k, is in high demand (fully booked?) and is at the top of his game.
A win in the Everest won’t increase his value/stud fees or Jones profit sheet one iota. Only his reputation which is already secured as a super sire

I think you need to put some new batteries in your calculator Wily.

In 2016 Snitzel stood for $110,000 and when stud fees were announced in April 2018 he went to $220,000.........April 2019....?

200 or so mares later.....well you can do the sums.

I'm certain Redoute's Choice a few seasons ago stood at around $300,000

wily ole dog · « 2018-Oct-16, 02:11 PM **Reply #318** »

No doubt it’s possible mate but Redzel is well founded In 5he market
Any increase will be based on his overall success which is stunning.

Jones support for the Everest is based on many things. Some may even be bias based but it’s fantasyland to think his pathetic performance over the Sails issue had any grounding in making any stud money out of a Redzel win

wily ole dog · « 2018-Oct-16, 02:22 PM **Reply #319** »

Further to that the big jump from 2015/16 to the 2017/2018 season would be this

2017/18
54% winners to runners   6xG1, 10xG2, 11xG3, 17x listed

2015/2016
48.0% winners to runners.    2xG1, 2xG2, 5xG3, 2x listed

I’d suggest that a Redzel win last year was NOT the catalyst

PoisonPen7 · « 2018-Oct-16, 07:51 PM **Reply #320** »

I agreed with this decision when it was made. But it was noted that politics has entered the fray with Victoria leading a "bloc".

The Everest fails in bid to become Group I race

At the recent Racing Australia board meeting, a proposal to elevate the $13 million The Everest to Group I level was canvassed as the race’s inaugural running, won by Redzel last October, rated as clearly the best sprint race held in Australia for 2017.

But sources told The Daily Telegraph that the Victorian bloc on the Racing Australia board used its power of veto to prevent The Everest receiving elite race status.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/turf-thoroughbreds/the-everest-fails-in-bid-to-become-group-i-race/news-story/1320dc886b346ec6fc9d47fa55158297

However on Saturday at Caulfield we saw a $120,000 race - the regular Saturday prizemoney - retain Listed status. Same tomorrow at the feature midweek meeting.

And there is a Group 3 race worth only $150k.

If the MRC wants to "rob Peter to pay Paul" in order to get a $5 million Caulfied Cup have no problem at all.

But the Pattern Committee has a credibility problem unless they act in downgrading races where the prizemoney is not sufficient.

Or maybe we have entered a period where "the Victorian bloc" will just abuse their powers to suit Victorian racing black type status and overstate the race's worth while keeping non bloc states in check.

They should get rid of the Pattern Committee and replace it with an independent board - maybe with even an international member - if they, the Pattern Committee, doesn't act on this.

There should be no place for politics in the classification of Australian thoroughbred racing.

Peter Mair · « 2018-Oct-16, 08:09 PM **Reply #321** »

Any suggestion that interstate rivalries will compromise the independence and integrity of our racing administrators is offensive.

Bubbasmith · « 2018-Oct-16, 08:13 PM **Reply #322** »

The Magic Millions is a "restricted listed race" because it is restricted to horses sold at the MM Sales. The Everest is not a race open to allcommers, it is restricted to horses selected by slot holders to race on their behalf, for that reason alone it will never be a Group race, nothing about "state-based horse racing politics, despite The Daily Telegraph claiming 'sources' had told them otherwise.

jfc · « 2018-Oct-17, 04:38 AM **Reply #323** »

Quote from: wily ole dog on 2018-Oct-16, 02:22 PM

Further to that the big jump from 2015/16 to the 2017/2018 season would be this

2017/18
54% winners to runners   6xG1, 10xG2, 11xG3, 17x listed

2015/2016
48.0% winners to runners.    2xG1, 2xG2, 5xG3, 2x listed

I’d suggest that a Redzel win last year was NOT the catalyst

Not my scene, but this old article by the epitome of credibility Brent Zerafa suggests otherwise.

Record season prizemoney (vastly inflated by fake Everest moolah) produces a 25% increase in service fees.

If costs remain about the same that is a far bigger boost to the bottom line and to Jones hip pocket.

https://www.racing.com/news/2018-04-24/snitzel-to-become-40m-a-year-sire

wily ole dog · « 2018-Oct-17, 07:05 AM **Reply #324** »

Zerafa.....enough said