Racehorse TALK

Thoroughbred Racing Talk => N.S.W Gallops => Topic started by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Sep-17, 10:07 PM

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Sep-17, 10:07 PM
A thread for discussion on this race.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Sep-17, 10:09 PM
Strzelecki Syndicate After A Kosciuszko Repeat

Meet the Strzelecki syndicate!

Theyíre a group of 14 punters from various parts of the state who hope to emulate their namesake, Paweł Strzelecki, and be the first to climb The Kosciuszko after securing the Rod Northam-trained After All That.

It was the seven-year-oldís slashing fourth in the Group 2 The Shorts (1100m) at Randwick last Saturday that led the group, managed by Richard Lentfer, into his corner.

ďWe had a look at a few of them beforehand, initially we were drawn to a few of the favourites but after his race on Saturday and having a chat with Rod he came across well and was open to negotiation,íí Lentfer said.

ďWeíre happy with where we landed with Rod and I think we are in with a live chance.íí

The field for the $1.3m The Kosciuszko is quickly taking shape with After All That joining Country Championships winner Victorem, Group winner The Monstar, Tamworth sprinter Suncraze and the Danny Williams pair Kopi Luwak and Donít Give A Damn who have also secured deals.

Lentfer said the members of the Strzelecki syndicate threw in $50 each to purchase tickets following his home town Grafton Cup carnival this year.

After All Thatís trainer Rod Northam, confident the gelding is going better than a year ago when he won the Anniversary Highway on Everest Day, said now he has his place confirmed he wonít have another run but will trial prior to October 13.

http://www.racingnsw.com.au/news/latest-racing-news/strzelecki-syndicate-after-a-kosciuszko-repeat/
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Sep-18, 08:25 AM


A separate thread

....... one might ask why it was not already up and running.

There is some danger of it becoming a promotional opportunity for those pumping up the kaper.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Authorized on 2018-Sep-18, 09:54 AM

A separate thread

....... one might ask why it was not already up and running.

There is some danger of it becoming a promotional opportunity for those pumping up the kaper.

I am not sure what that means but the race has already proven a promotional winner.

Not sure how many newcomers it has won over but the build up and promotion has been fantastic.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Sep-18, 10:39 AM

Wait for the fat lady to tune up

Until we see the numbers on who bought what it is premature to call the over-hyped nonsense from cartel members a 'fantastic promotion'.

......and were rural race clubs 'encouraged' to buy bulk blocks of tickets?
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Authorized on 2018-Sep-18, 11:58 AM
Not sure if they did it but what I would like to know is How many tickets were sold and the profit made  ?

Once expenses came out the rest should have gone into bost prize money for the race and that boosted money going to the tickets holders.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Sep-18, 12:30 PM

Trickets

I thought the plan was for the ticket sales to fund the prize money for the race.

The plan to sell the tickets was about playing on the emotions and loyalties of mainly rural punters and participants.

These people would have done better to save their money and bet on 'their horse' in the race,

I cannot imagine that most punters have any affection for the highway stuff  at any time and over-paying prize-money to runners that do not belong in town is hardly sensible ever.

Betting on the race will be a much more objective test of a concept likely to be rejected and abandoned.

Come down from the mountain.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Authorized on 2018-Sep-18, 12:39 PM
Personally I could not careless about the punting.

I was against the concept because it takes good horses away from the better races.

That said I think the promotion has been fantastic and the race is looking like a potential cracker.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2018-Sep-18, 01:55 PM
Wait for the fat lady to tune up

Until we see the numbers on who bought what it is premature to call the over-hyped nonsense from cartel members a 'fantastic promotion'.





2ky was saying 2000,000 tickets were sold. Itís been in print media as well if you are even really interested  in finding out the answers rather than throwing mud

One bloke who got a horse spent $300.....good in him. A punters club from a Wagga pub got a slot as well. Iím sure they are not concerned with your thoughts Peter


It will be a ripper of the race.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: nemisis on 2018-Sep-18, 02:29 PM


2ky was saying 2000,000 tickets were sold.




That's a lot of tickets   :lol:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2018-Sep-18, 03:20 PM
Oops,well spotted mate.
200,000
 8-)
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: jfc on 2018-Sep-18, 04:07 PM
I'm hardly RWW's biggest fan but was pleasantly and pronouncedly shocked to read his article about Tadeusz Kosciuszko.

At the risk of shocking some even more the deranged mispronunciation of the Queensland Premier's name should be grounds for her impeachment.



http://robwaterhouse.com/index.php/2018/07/19/warwick-farm-18-july-2018/
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Sep-24, 06:43 PM


Snow warning for kosciuszko-kaper-kon

...... a highway-robbery prelude to the kkk in mid October was run at Rosehill on Saturday .. F4 paid $75k.

These low grade rural handicaps present a problem for punters when they are a leg of a quadrella and cannot be ignored.

The offence is only compounded when the punters are seduced with overhyped nonsense to kick in big prize-money for a contrived event mocking rural racing.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2018-Sep-24, 06:53 PM

Snow warning for kosciuszko-kaper-kon

...... a highway-robbery prelude to the kkk in mid October was run at Rosehill on Saturday .. F4 paid $75k.

These low grade rural handicaps present a problem for punters when they are a leg of a quadrella and cannot be ignored.

The offence is only compounded when the punters are seduced with overhyped nonsense to kick in big prize-money for a contrived event mocking rural racing.

Given that the quaddy requires the punters to pick the winners of races  and has zero to do with a F4 can you enlighten us as to the odds of the past dozen winners?

By the way, seeblume was in my black book. Smart punters watched this link and took the early good odds

http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/FreeFields/VideoResult.aspx?MeetDate=2018Sep05&VenueCode=NTQ3MjQzMg==&RaceNumber=6&MeetingCategory=Professional&VideoFileType=FullReplay


Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Sep-24, 07:28 PM

Is the F4 a fair bet

...........the F4 result reflects the horses running first to fourth ........often with a small separating  margin.

If it is not a fair-bet option it should be discontinued............... as should the BSUX which is always unfair unless boosted by a 'jackpot'.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Sep-24, 09:30 PM
I'm hardly RWW's biggest fan but was pleasantly and pronouncedly shocked to read his article about Tadeusz Kosciuszko.

At the risk of shocking some even more the deranged mispronunciation of the Queensland Premier's name should be grounds for her impeachment.

http://robwaterhouse.com/index.php/2018/07/19/warwick-farm-18-july-2018/

From the article:

"It should be the ko-SHCH-OO-SH-ko."

Well who is going to call it that. You'd be breathalyzed :nowink:

As for Robbies ideas on "socialism in horse racing" by paying appearance money down to 10th place - by any measure it has been a success.

These people who are bagging the Kozzie and other country racing initiatives have NFI about country racing and in particular the "regressive costs" country owners cop e.g. they pay exactly the same a city owner does for their vet drugs (and even more sinisterly pay the same GST). When the float driver fills up with petrol (which you do more often in the country) they actually pay more than the city connections will and subsequently more GST.

Well done to Racing NSW for identifying this and trying to send some money back to where it is needed. No wonder the state's racing industry is the envy of all.

As I've said before, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel if this "too much prizemoney" line is the best you can come up with as a criticism. RNSW must be doing something right.   emthup
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Sep-24, 10:09 PM

 Irrelevant racing -- wasted funding

A relevant test surely is about any race meeting generating the payback from betting turnover to cover the costs of staging the meeting and prize money paid.

Few rural race meetings do.

Governments enforce the 'tax take' from racing but it is not first put into consolidated budget revenue  and then dispersed, in the budget,  as grants of prize money paid based on open and transparent proposals put forward by race clubs individually.

.................. putting the disbursement of these 'tax take-outs'  in the hands of state racing administrators is  an invitation to bad decisions on the spending of funds from the public purse.

Australia has far too much racing and most of it is funded by tax take-outs on the best racing then wasted on funding the worst racing in rural electorates in which few are interested.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: jfc on 2018-Sep-24, 10:16 PM

"It should be the ko-SHCH-OO-SH-ko."

Well who is going to call it that. You'd be breathalyzed :nowink:

Anyone who doesn't want to sound like an uncultured moron or 7 tennis commentator.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2018-Sep-25, 07:28 AM
Is the F4 a fair bet

...........the F4 result reflects the horses running first to fourth ........often with a small separating  margin.

If it is not a fair-bet option it should be discontinued............... as should the BSUX which is always unfair unless boosted by a 'jackpot'.

Of course itís a fair bet and the bigger the divvy the happier the punters are.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Oct-09, 01:37 AM
Before the barrier draw I've taken a little of the $6 each way The Monstar.

He has 5 kg over the limit under the conditions.

In four of his last 5 starts he has run into Santa Ana Lane, Pierata, Redzel and Ball Of Muscle and run his usual honest race.

Must be a chance that under the weight conditions he is at a significant advantage.

This table has in the 3rd to last column the weight they would receive if it were a BM95 race. The figures in the last column are a "disadvantage weight figure" for the runners running under the SWP conditions as opposed to the Benchmarking system.

Care To Think, After All That and The Monstar are better off than the rest of the runners by some margin.

Quiite confident in saying that the winner should come from the top 3 in this table - hope the theoretical maths matches the outcome - it often doesn't otherwise we'd all be rich wouldn't we   :lol:

Form Horse Sex Age Trainer Wgt BM BM95 Wgt Actual Wgt Difference
x1112x670x CARE TO THINK G 5 Matthew Dunn 59kg 104 62.5 59 -3.5
642x2216x4 AFTER ALL THAT G 7 Rodney Northam 57.5kg 100 60.5 57.5 -3
30x5104365 THE MONSTAR G 8 Brett Cavanough 60kg 104 62.5 60 -2.5
16x1380243 BELFLYER G 7 John Shelton 57.5kg 95 58 57.5 -0.5
11x1012x16 DONíT GIVE A DAMN G 5 Danny Williams 57kg 93 57 57 0
411x1x112x VICTOREM G 4 Jenny Graham 57.5kg 92 56.5 57.5 1
12x1179x03 SUNCRAZE G 5 Melanie O'Gorman 57kg 89 55 57 2
x8167x7117 SHARPE HUSSLER G 7 Cameron Crockett 58kg 90 55.5 58 2.5
1x115360x3 SNITZ G 4 Matthew Dunn 57kg 85 53 57 4
1131234x60 Oí SO HAZY M 5 Scott Spackman 55kg 79 50 55 5
5159760x91 RUTHLESS AGENT (NZ) G 5 Kurt Goldman 56.5kg 79 50 56.5 6.5
2351514x41 FUEL G 6 Wayne Wilkes 56kg 80 50.5 58 7.5
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-09, 09:22 AM


No such thing as an oxymoron

It is an open secret that here can be no such thing as the 'world's richest country race'

This whole kosciuszko-kaper is a bit of a kon  -- no least for the winning ticket holders and presumably the loyal fans of runners unable to be comparably ranked.

We are still waiting for the weather to finalize the field -- and there may need to be emergencies.

There could be a deafening silence come Saturday.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2018-Oct-09, 05:25 PM

No such thing as an oxymoron

It is an open secret that here can be no such thing as the 'world's richest country race'

This whole kosciuszko-kaper is a bit of a kon  -- no least for the winning ticket holders and presumably the loyal fans of runners unable to be comparably ranked.

We are still waiting for the weather to finalize the field -- and there may need to be emergencies.

There could be a deafening silence come Saturday.

Itís already established that you have no idea how to do form. Stop trying to prove it
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-09, 06:51 PM


.......... thank you for emphasizing the point I was making
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2018-Oct-09, 06:53 PM

.......... thank you for emphasizing the point I was making

Yes I did, youíre too lazy and stupid to do the form.
Youíre coming along nicely peter by admitting youíve been wrong
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-10, 08:54 AM

Kosciuszko-kaper

The field is still being finalized -- all a bit of a shambles really -- the concept may be racing into equine mortality.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Jeunes on 2018-Oct-13, 02:00 PM
Did not back the winnner or the placegetters but watching the interviews after the race, you see what it means to the owners and slot holders. Great boost to the country and Kudos to Vlandys and co.

The only negative is the race got lost in the hype this week and could be an added bonus to Epsom Day or Spring Champion Stakes day.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: ianb on 2018-Oct-13, 06:46 PM
As against The Everest I think this race is a farce. The race was worth $1.3 million dollars and was won by a reasonable horse in Bellflyer. But why should a listed /group3 class horse be entitled to this much money?

It is exactly like the supplementary races  on Magic Million 2 year old  and 3yr old  Guineas day - horses going nowhere who end up winning much more than genuine Group1 winners.

And  yes although the Everest prize money is obscene, it does at least attract  our best sprinters and has saved the Queensland Winter racing carnival.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-13, 07:02 PM
Kosciusko Kaper -- FIRST$4 dividend pays $95,000

This nonsense should never have been put into effect.

Total turnover on the NSW and Vic TABs was about $2 million --- there is no way the 5% 'take' from total turnover on the race would warrant the prize-money offered.

[....even the everest with some $10 million across both TABs is hardly sensible.]

Just wait for the administrators and 'independent' media to explain how wonderful this was.

I cannot imagine that most punters have any affection for the highway stuff  at any time and over-paying prize-money to runners that do not belong in town is hardly sensible ever.

The offence is only compounded when the punters are seduced with over-hyped nonsense to kick in big prize-money for a contrived event mocking rural racing.

There could be a deafening silence come Saturday.

 ..............all a bit of a shambles really -- the concept may be racing into equine mortality.



Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-14, 07:39 AM


Sweet and sour on the kosciuszko climb down

.......................shock Kosciuszko win

      ...............................the soft-talking Grafton trainer was still trying to comprehend what had just happened, a horse he wanted to put the paddock a couple of months ago hanging around and winning the first $1.3 million The Kosciuszko for country-trained horses.

It was his biggest win on a racetrack. Ditto Hyeronimus. The first prize purse was worth $685,000.

And the fact they did it with a $71 outsider just made it even sweeter.


Not everyone was pleased that a flawed concept unfolded as expected.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Spudda028 on 2018-Oct-14, 07:53 AM
I take it Monty didnít find you the winner Peter? What a shame you continue with your politically motivated rants across multiple threads on the forum
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Oct-14, 08:49 AM
As against The Everest I think this race is a farce. The race was worth $1.3 million dollars and was won by a reasonable horse in Bellflyer. But why should a listed /group3 class horse be entitled to this much money?

It is exactly like the supplementary races  on Magic Million 2 year old  and 3yr old  Guineas day - horses going nowhere who end up winning much more than genuine Group1 winners.

And  yes although the Everest prize money is obscene, it does at least attract  our best sprinters and has saved the Queensland Winter racing carnival.

It is not real prizemoney though. It comes from the slot holders.

This point was made when they first announced the race which is a copy of the Pegasus World Cup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_World_Cup

Personally I don't think they should be allowed to advertise the "prizemoney" (and said this at the time the race was announced - just have to say that for all the sad trolls who have nothing better to do with their life than stalk and flame me).

But....

What has happened is that Racing NSW have observed what Victoria has done with their marketing e.g. Cox Plate is the WFA Championship of Australia, Melbourne Events Capital of the world, all that bull.

They have then managed to market this race as "the richest turf race in the world".

The media love that sort of stuff and have seemed quite happy to run with it.

That is the way it goes these days. So if the Victorians are upset they probably only have themselves to blame.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Oct-14, 08:52 AM
...and on a more positive note congratulations to the connections of the winner.

Really great outcome for country NSW racing.

With the recent announcements of Martin Pakula on the increase in prizemoney for Victorian country racing it really is happy days for the good folk involved with country racing throughout NSW and Victoria.   emthup
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-14, 09:30 AM


I take it Monty didnít find you the winner ...?

                                                                               ...........'no one' found the winner.

Country racing belongs in the country:  this k kaper is patronizing nonsense -- disrespects rural Australia..
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2018-Oct-14, 09:39 AM
Now youíre speaking on behalf of rural Australia but Iím sure they donít welcome your condemnation, ignorance or arrogance  :bulb:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Oct-14, 09:51 AM
Now youíre speaking on behalf of rural Australia but Iím sure they donít welcome your condemnation, ignorance or arrogance  :bulb:

Mate. I can tell you very definitely that many city people speak on behalf of rural Australia and that most of these people have never lived outside a capital city.

Included in this are the geniuses who levy the same rate of tax for things like petrol, alcohol, tobacco, GST, etc. in spite of the fact that country people earn less than their city counterparts.

A couple of decades of this has seen the quality of life for country people go down relative to their city cousins. The kids have all had to leave their homes to look for work in the cities so the towns lose out. There is no acknowledgement of this problem and no attempt to fix it.

So can you imagine country people rolling their eyes when city based media complain about traffic and overcrowding?

That is why it is so refreshingly nice to see something going back into country racing. Well done to Racing NSW, RVL and their respective governments.   emthup

Ignorant opinions from city based commentators like Peter Mair are infuriating for rural people - based on my experience of having lived in rural NSW for many years even though I am reluctantly back in Sin City these days.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: fours on 2018-Oct-14, 09:56 AM
PP7,

While you have my sympathy on some of this are you not forgetting that property is much cheaper and rents too in the country.     These two costs probably far

outweigh the costs you have mentioned in total.

Fours
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-14, 10:15 AM


............patronizing and mocking nonsense



Nothing wrong with state governments giving money to rural Australia.

                                                                                                        ....... and more as needed.

There are two problems here.

First, money raised as 'taxes' should be given cleanly and not 'washed' through the pockets of local racing participants . This is political stable-barrelling.  It is unlikely that rural communities prefer to have the local racing fraternity get first cut of any 'surplus city money' sent their way.

Whatever truth there may have been in rural race meetings being the 'social hub' is now just CUBs.

Second, it is a waste of money to require rural racers to come to Sydney so that they can be patronized and mocked. Week in and week out expensive horse transports and stable entourages are trundling down the highways to have a costly day in the big smoke. No one needs this.

.......even rural racing industry people would hardly choose to spend any 'racing largesse' given to them  forcing everyone to go to Sydney -- hyped into the deception of having a city metrop winner. Also Bs.

This whole concept is just patronizing and mocking nonsense and rural racing should say so.



Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Oct-14, 10:41 AM
PP7,

While you have my sympathy on some of this are you not forgetting that property is much cheaper and rents too in the country.

Fours

The reason they are cheaper is that the populations are dropping because the kids move to the city and there is no demand. This is one of the contributing reasons for the high price of real estate in capital cities (along with migration policies that add to the overcrowding problem).

Consequently there is no room for growth in the cities. The government needs to have policies that allows for growth in our larger provincial cities and includes inducements for companies to relocate jobs there.

Back on topic - the racing industries in NSW and Victoria are providing the inducements for jobs growth in their industry outside of capital cities through prizemoney increases.

Instead of the default negative response from city based social and mainstream media "experts" sitting on their arse with nothing better to do, maybe they deserve praise and perhaps provide a model for governments to use for other industries as well  :bulb:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Oct-14, 10:46 AM

............patronizing and mocking nonsense



Nothing wrong with state governments giving money to rural Australia.

                                                                                                        ....... and more as needed.

There are two problems here.

First, money raised as 'taxes' should be given cleanly and not 'washed' through the pockets of local racing participants . This is political stable-barrelling.  It is unlikely that rural communities prefer to have the local racing fraternity get first cut of any 'surplus city money' sent their way.

Whatever truth there may have been in rural race meetings being the 'social hub' is now just CUBs.

Second, it is a waste of money to require rural racers to come to Sydney so that they can be patronized and mocked. Week in and week out expensive horse transports and stable entourages are trundling down the highways to have a costly day in the big smoke. No one needs this.

.......even rural racing industry people would hardly choose to spend any 'racing largesse' given to them  forcing everyone to go to Sydney -- hyped into the deception of having a city metrop winner. Also Bs.

This whole concept is just patronizing and mocking nonsense and rural racing should say so.

Peter. You are on record as saying they should get rid of country racing.

How's that for city-based patronizing!!!

I cannot understand a lot of the other stuff you are trying to say  :what:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-14, 11:19 AM


...........more than patronizing nonsense, it is wasteful political vote-buying


The rural racing industry is a mine shaft across the nation.

No other country wastes so much money in this way.  Most of the resources in the racing industry would be more productive in another industry.

The states 'must have' their own array of pyramids built with community money........but the faithful are wavering ........Queensland and SA simply cannot keep  putting money down the shaft. POC taxes will cut the cord -- take the 'take' from the local punters but use it differently.

There is no way a proper 'cost benefit' assessment would allow racing money to be taken cleanly from the public purse -- it is only available with a political trick, community money that belongs in the public purse is instead milked as 'take' from TABs and bookmakers and  put in the discretionary hands of racing administrators to build their racing pyramids.

The next part of the trick is for the community to believe that too-much-money for racing is some reflection of the administrators 'asking for more'. The administrators get the 'kudos/blame.

The politicians may not love these 'more' questions but they cannot say 'no' lest they lose the race to the bottom of the shaft.

Why do they do it  -- it is about rural electorates  - they dare not give less than more -- the 'racing lobby' in towns is an amalgam of bi-partisan support -- it is the winning vote margin -- either party not kicking the racing tin would be out on its ear.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2018-Oct-14, 03:30 PM
As against The Everest I think this race is a farce. The race was worth $1.3 million dollars and was won by a reasonable horse in Bellflyer. But why should a listed /group3 class horse be entitled to this much money?

It is exactly like the supplementary races  on Magic Million 2 year old  and 3yr old  Guineas day - horses going nowhere who end up winning much more than genuine Group1 winners.

And  yes although the Everest prize money is obscene, it does at least attract  our best sprinters and has saved the Queensland Winter racing carnival.

Wasn't the race self funding? 250,000 tickets @ $5 = $1,250,000

I know they didn't sell all of them but it was upwards of 200k, so the money isn't coming out of the normal pot.

My issue was some of the rumoured prizemoney splits  :chin: Care To Think was rumoured to be 85:15 in favour of the connections. Whilst that all went to pot with the horses scratching imho connections of eligible horses need to be careful not to bite the hand that feeds them as who'd want to invest good money attempting to win a ticket let alone get the short end of the wedge.

I know it's up to the two parties to come to an agreement  :bulb:

The winning slot holder brought 20 tickets only and set out to find the run on, strong horse. Worked out pretty good for him   emthup
 
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Spudda028 on 2018-Oct-14, 04:07 PM
Peter your ignorance clearly knows no bounds as evidenced by your comments.
I found Belflyer & tipped it to another forumite who fed up with the BS on here of late like many no longer posts
What about the owner that jagged 91's fixed ?? Happy days indeed !!!
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-14, 04:37 PM


Winners are grinners -- the rest can please themselves.

I never begrudge a win for the battlers and the wash up on 528 was great TV.

My concern is a different one -- it is about politicians and racing administrators taking advantage of the rural racing set to aggrandize themselves.

They will be self-feeding on the mountain races for months and be back at it again.

More generally my concern extends to the 'profits before people' mindset that now rules racing. Paying substantial prize-money to run 10th is no way to protect the integrity of the racing. It is a formula to rip more off most punters now facing actual 'deductions' of 100% on most days to the benefit of corporates and syndicates feeding on 'rough results'.

Dare to be great races paying grossly excessive prize-money and a bloated rural racing industry living on subsidies to cover staging expenses is no way to run the business.

......and as for the 200,000 tickets 'sold' to punters -- tell that to the marines.

Racing is a long game  - prospectively, only if it is run fairly in the interests of the 'most punters' that pay all the freight.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2018-Oct-14, 04:56 PM
Can anyone make sense of what he's saying  :what: (he'll never answer if I asked)
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-14, 05:34 PM


..................the sense of it


In Australia the racing industry is run like a Ponzi-scheme.

Racing is only kept afloat by taking ever-more money from punters (and the public purse) and misusing it to prop up separate state fiefdoms bloated beyond comprehension.

Read the sad story about racing in Queensland -- the political consensus there is shifting from 'support' to 'abandonment' and the consequences will be bloody. Same in SA.

RacingNSW and RacingVictoria are in a fight to the death -- the weapon is money and the outcome is about which state walks.

Meantime the administration of racing is ever more institutionally corrupted -- misusing inflated fields and fixed-odds betting with 'rough results' guaranteed to collar more money from punters to fight the war.

The punters will eventually wake up to what is going on and revolt.

I no longer have any respect for carnival capers in 'Cup week' while betting on Victorian  nights, mid-weeks and standalones has been a certifiable offence for years.

 
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Spudda028 on 2018-Oct-14, 05:43 PM
Peter I doubt you actually understand the definitions of the statements that you make
Yet again you manage to sneak your objection about prize money being paid down to tenth & you rant about Qld & Vic racing but you are on the Kosciuszko race thread
As off topic as it gets
Can one of you stewards intervene & delete please - the record is broken!
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-14, 06:04 PM


 the Kosciuszko race thread

                    -- is about a deception that is one illustration of a more general step-back from politicians and administrators dealing with punters and other participants in a sustainably honest way.

Running country races in Sydney does not make sense for anyone -- apart from the urgers.

 
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2018-Oct-14, 08:33 PM
FFS Pete - do you realise how this race was funded?

Once you understand that, all your waffle is irrelevant as it simply has no weight in this case.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-14, 10:02 PM


Neither me nor you -- until we are told

....and we wont be told the accountable truth.

If some 200,000 tickets were sold , it is most likely that rural race clubs bought most - 'on behalf of their members'.

The average punter may be old but is not silly -- some may have bought a couple but would wish they had not.

This tripe about ticket funding will not be repeated if there is any audited accountability for 'who bought what'.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2018-Oct-15, 06:46 AM

 the Kosciuszko race thread

                    -- is about a deception that is one illustration of a more general step-back from politicians and administrators dealing with punters and other participants in a sustainably honest way.

Running country races in Sydney does not make sense for anyone -- apart from the urgers.

 Noted that urgers in Mairs mind means  anyone who disagrees with him :shutup:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2018-Oct-15, 12:28 PM

Neither me nor you -- until we are told

....and we wont be told the accountable truth.

If some 200,000 tickets were sold , it is most likely that rural race clubs bought most - 'on behalf of their members'.

The average punter may be old but is not silly -- some may have bought a couple but would wish they had not.

This tripe about ticket funding will not be repeated if there is any audited accountability for 'who bought what'.

So Pete I take it you're calling RNSW, V'Landy's et al liars?  :chin:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-15, 01:11 PM


Never !

Like Sargeant Friday -- I just want the facts ma'am, just the facts.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Oct-15, 07:21 PM

No one is telling us this

No wonder the media are so beholden to the party line from Druitt Street.


Sydneyís commercial media outlets are among the biggest winners from Saturdayís Everest race meeting. In the weeks leading up to the race, three advertisers spent almost $900,000 on print, radio and television ads.

Marketing and media firm Ebiquity put the spend by betting agency TAB, the Australian Turf Club, and the Australian Jockey Club at $867,000, mostly in Sydney media, with much smaller spends in Brisbane and Melbourne, and smaller again in Adelaide and Perth.

The Sydney Morning Herald had almost daily ads, including four front and back page ads, in the two weeks leading up to the race. The Herald and The Daily Telegraph both carried wrap-arounds and lift-outs dedicated to detailed coverage of the race.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Jun-30, 08:32 PM


Racing up the mountains again -- queues of climbers for Kosciusko

For an industry that claims a preoccupation with 'integrity' it will be interesting to see how open and transparent is the coming media hype about the 'success' of these contrived events.

There was not much candor in the hyped-up nonsense that paraded as media reporting last year.

Journalists were apparently pressured into toeing the line.

I consider it disturbing that industry promotion of the Kosciusko is extolling the 'excitement' of a completely unexpected result last year when the F4 paid some$100K.

Rough races like the Kosciusko are invitations for 'old smokeys'  to finish on top.

Even sensible connections would be wary of getting involved in a game they cannot understand.

The incredulity extends to inviting 'punters' to buy tickets so they may 'win' a horse before they negotiate with connections about how the spoils will be shared.

I invite explanations from individual punters as to why they would buy a ticket.

I similarly invite explanations from rural race clubs as to why they would use members money to buy tickets.




Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Jun-30, 08:46 PM
Iíll be buying $20 or $50 with
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Jun-30, 11:03 PM
What you fail to mention Pete was the race was run on a bog track, pretty much put the favorite out of play.

Sort of negates your diatribe  :whistle:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Jul-01, 09:42 AM

Transparency or hype-tripe

The issue on the table is not the winner or track-rating of a particular event -- rather it is about the dare-to-be-great (and quickly) approach to racing administration.

Those interested can scroll back through this thread and be reminded of the spiritual gymnastics involved in presenting the mountain races as just what the punters wanted to bring them back to the track.

In the pay-back stakes RVL kicked an own goal with its all-stars crashing to earth

It was not and the new seasons plays are unfolding.

The racing segment on 2KSKY this morning started with a marketing message blandly encouraging punters to buy 'Kosciuszko tickets'.

------- we await any credible case being made for any punter to buy such a ticket.

[The game only got even sillier this morning with the plan for a new bet on odd or even numbered winners -- a concept to rival the quickly  discarded 'spinner' bet from the early 2000s and the raft of other duets and trios and mystery bet options that mock the industry and punters.]

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Jul-01, 07:50 PM


Transparency or hype-tripe

The issue on the table is not the winner or track-rating of a particular event -- rather it is about the dare-to-be-great (and quickly) approach to racing administration.

Those interested can scroll back through this thread and be reminded of the spiritual gymnastics involved in presenting the mountain races as just what the punters wanted to bring them back to the track.





Rubbish!

You obviously don't even remember what you wrote  :shutup:




I consider it disturbing that industry promotion of the Kosciusko is extolling the 'excitement' of a completely unexpected result last year when the F4 paid some$100K.



 :wacko:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Jul-01, 08:03 PM

Ground stood

The promotion of this pandering to rural racing this year would be entirely different if the race last year went to the first three favourites.

That does not especially concern me -- except that it fosters a feeling that 'anyone' can win this race and that ordinary punters might be beguiled into thinking that  a 'winning ticket' could precede a 'big payout'.

....... it may ....... but not likely, probably.

As I see the deal it is unashamedly presented as a deception to the rural racing community -- playing on local loyalties in an event that has no established basis for having a well-founded opinion based on comparative form.

Why would anyone buy a ticket?

Who does buy 'tickets' -- rural race clubs?

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Jul-01, 08:18 PM
If you paid attention you'd know anyone can buy tickets.

One syndicate spent $10k (maybe more) and secured a horse, they had the fav who was scratched then from memory ended up with Awesome Pluck who ran 3rd. I heard the syndicate manager interviewed (Dave Barnhill, ex rugby league player, now publican) who said they also placed a number of bets which well and truly got there money back with plenty of interest   emthup

Another was selected only spent $50.00

It's the luck of the draw to be selected and good luck to those who did.

No I didn't buy a ticket.  :huh:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Jul-01, 08:26 PM

Fairy dust

The story about this year will unfold -- anyone buying 'tickets' should be asked to say why they thought it was sensible.

Not even the independent racing media clique are saying anything other than a bland, party-line, 'buy a ticket' -- there is no sensible suggestion of why anyone would buy a ticket.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Jul-01, 08:33 PM


........... and while were are questioning the administrators .. ...could we put on notice the question of 'how many free tickets to attend neverest-day will be handed out to members and others?

Pictures of a members grandstand crowded with freeloaders has about the same level of credibility as most photo shopped images these days.

........ maybe they could use last years photos and dispense with the facts.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Jul-01, 09:04 PM
Fairy dust

The story about this year will unfold -- anyone buying 'tickets' should be asked to say why they thought it was sensible.

Not even the independent racing media clique are saying anything other than a bland, party-line, 'buy a ticket' -- there is no sensible suggestion of why anyone would buy a ticket.

Never dreamt what it's like to win Lotto  :whistle:

Dare to dream Pete  ;)
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Antitab# on 2019-Jul-01, 09:27 PM
Pete,

I donít know if free tickets are given out on Everest Day and I suspect they arenít.

I would go as far as to say with great meetings in Sydney and Melbourne this is the best days racing on the calendar.

However if free tickets are dispersed,  itís surely good business.

Punters at home canít buy food, beverages, add to on course turn over ( lucrative margin for RNSW)  or even purchase merchandise.

Maybe they bring their kids and the next generation punters get the taste.

The more through the gates the better for PVL and the industry.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Jul-02, 08:21 AM
Anti, all of those valid points will go straight over the head of ole Pete   :biggrin:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Jul-18, 10:25 PM

The Kosciusko hoax continues to be promoted



Dismiss any hope that state racing administrators will openly disclose the share of Kosciusko tickets sold -- as between individuals and country race clubs.

 ........ why would any individual punter pay $5 for a ticket , which, if a winning ticket would be next to worthless, especially considering the no-chance of winning.

Even so, on 2KSKY, the 'buy now' promotion is on full speed.

Presumably the hoax about 'buying tickets' is somehow intended to snare country race clubs support and the loyalty they may have to a local aspirant.

If so, this is the complete reverse of the related strategy of misusing rural racing to divert racing dollars to rural areas.

Presumably also the marketing men are looking to boost on-course attendance of rural racing aficionados -- an element of making Everest day look like it is popular.

...... let us see, this year, the visual evidence of the ATC bolstering attendance numbers with 'free' entry to the members stand.

[........as an aside ............. looking to see 'other posts' of 'antitab' draws a blank -- apparently, he 'does not exist'.]
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Jul-19, 12:34 PM
The Kosciusko hoax continues to be promoted



 ........ why would any individual punter pay $5 for a ticket , which, if a winning ticket would be next to worthless, especially considering the no-chance of winning.



Tell that the ticket holder who did a deal with Belflyer?
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Jul-19, 12:57 PM
Mair chooses to ignore such facts
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Aug-02, 10:31 PM


Mountain climbing ................. all sizzle but no steak

No one has ever offered a sensible reason for a metropolitan punter to 'buy a Kosciuszko ticket'

The vague -- but relentlessly determined -- media exhortations for ordinary punters to 'buy a ticket' in the Kosciuszko, surely calls into question the the inclination of racing administrators to properly balance a sales-pitch with their  responsibility to treat punters fairly.

Just what is going on here is not clear  -- superficially the K race benefits country connections -- practically, however,  if the identity of those silly enough to buy K tickets, is mainly about rural race clubs supporting local trainers, then the deal becomes a bit perverse -- an outcome quite contrary to the basic plan of using Sydney racing money to subsidize the bush. 

Just imagine if Ms Shocken-Orr , of banking royal commission fame, were to explore the integrity of state racing administrators.

....... sights not seen since lions ate christians in the Colosseum.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Aug-06, 10:51 PM

"Don't forget to buy a ticket"

This constant refrain from the 2KSKY media bunker makes one wonder about the independence of the media and what encouragement they may be under from the Kosciuszko hustlers.

I may not mind so much if the simple 'don't forget' was complemented by any sensible reason for a punter to buy a ticket.

Talk about a pig in a poke -- this is a good illustration.

.... and one thing for sure ........we will never be told about the 'tickets sold' and 'who bought them' and from which 'postcodes'

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Aug-07, 03:55 PM
"Don't forget to buy a ticket"



.... and one thing for sure ........we will never be told about the 'tickets sold' and 'who bought them' and from which 'postcodes'

Pete - even if you did know, what relevance would that be anyway?
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Aug-07, 09:23 PM

..................what relevance would that be

The idea that we cannot trust racing administrators to speak truthfully is one that I cannot accept.

Whether it is the 'virtue' of paying 10th to inflate fields, or the nonsense of the O&E bet option funding particular races, it is disturbing that accepted marketing tactics unfairly induce ordinary punters to 'buy a pig in a poke' that, in prospect,  is practically worthless.

The marketing deceptions extend to the highway-robbery races spoiling the early quadrella option for most but rewarding the syndicate operators.

The 'politics' of 'rural races in the city' is even more offensive in that it encourages entourages of rural horses to spend time and money in Sydney to attend the races.

The 'rural races' themselves are unfathomable because the form is incomparable -- and worse it opens the door to stunts where a horse is smoked in to unexpectedly steal the loot.

These 'rural-in-the-city' races should not be run.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Aug-08, 11:44 AM
Pete - even if you did know, what relevance would that be anyway?

Donít bother reading his reply, Gin, itís the same ignorant crap that he cuts and pastes every week despite being proven wrong in every instance
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Sep-03, 07:09 PM


Game on? ........... the racing industry knows how to play a game


One of the risks with a race like the Kosciuszko is that it will be gamed. The Kosciuszko is the Sydney version of the fairly-called no-star-mile race being run into oblivion by RVL. At least RNSW limited the contenders to 'country' horses and charged for the stable followers to get a vote.

The problem is that plotters will play the game -- an extract from Racenet is illustrative:

THE KOSCIUSZKO ANYONE?

Patient country trainer Danny Williams could have a serious contender for The Kosciuszko on his hands.

The neddy in question is Floki, a six-year-old by Hinchinbrook who has only had four starts but already boasts an eight lengths win at Scone and a midweek city success at Canterbury.


............... there will be some flak if Floki wins!

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Sep-04, 05:57 AM
Once again Mair, you are jumping at shadows and proving your ignorance and dishonest commentary on the industry

Floki has exposed form and his recent barrier trial was televised on Sky Channel
I backed it after seeing that trial as Iím sure many other punters have
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Sep-06, 09:57 AM

Will there be any accountability for the purchasers of Kosciuszko tickets?

The 2KSKY Media machine runs ads simply saying that punters should buy a ticket without giving any credible reason to do so.

The purchase price of tickets purchased by 'individuals' should be refunded as a display of good faith.

Presumably the sale of tickets is aimed at country race clubs hoping that 'winning' will give them the right to share in the spoils of sponsoring a local contender --  arranging a tribal contingent to be 'on course' will only bolster the appearance of support for the other mountain race run on the day.

The K concept may not have long to go before it is abandoned -- the smart-set will be scheming to have a city-class horse or two smoked in to knock off the dough.

 




Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Sep-06, 10:03 AM
Peter

 are you partaking in the forums 2 tipping comps or just abusing its presence for your own benefit ?
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Sep-10, 04:50 PM
Mair ends up with egg all over his face again after the draw today  :lol:


Given heís constant display of ignorance, guesswork and blatant lies youíd think heíd walk away from an industry that has already rejected his services.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Sep-10, 07:46 PM


2KSKY say some 215,000 'tickets' were purchased

........ facts are facts needing to be understood.............. consider it a lottery............ 14 'winners' have a potential payout of, say,  $500,000 for a $5 ticket for a single-ticket buyer......... that converts to a 1/15,000 chance ........  a minuscule probability of getting a ticket ........ but, compared to most lottery and lotto products .... is it a fair bet.

........... over and out to the master mathematicians.

My gut feel was 'no' -- and I do not believe RNSW should be permitted to run a lottery.

This nonsense will unfold.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Sep-10, 08:14 PM
So you got it wrong  :lol:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Sep-12, 10:27 AM


Reality may be dawning

.................. on checking the T&C, it seems that the 'winner' with the first placed horse would have a maximum payout of some $250,000................. for one of a planned field of 250,000 tickets @ $5.

......... the 'sense' of buying a ticket is not at all clear ........... and that flows on to the thought that the T&C be recast so that it would be clearly sensible to enter a fair contest.............. the point should be to attract and build interest ..... not get the punters to pay twice ... when they buy a ticket and then when they place bets.


The minimum amount payable to a successful Sweep Winner is $2,975.However, Racing NSW estimates that the total value of prizes for ĎSlot Winnersí will range from between $232,900 for the winner whose horse finishes first to $3,000 for the winner whose horse finishes last.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Sep-12, 08:09 PM


A headline with no meaning:  The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race

 Are acceptors from Canberra in low-way races normally relegated as 'emergency' starters?

If so --what is the reason for that?

Canberraís Matt Dale is set to have a runner in the $1.3 million feature but no horse has been finalised yet --Notation, Coup De Main and Superstar Bob are expected to be potential options to fill the slot.

Still no mention of Danny Williams neddy Floki.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Sep-12, 09:45 PM
Iím not surprised youíre unaware that the very talented Floki is racing tomorrow

Much easier for you to bitch and moan than look at the form guide
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Sep-12, 10:30 PM


........ thanks for the tip......... $5 on

Floki   --  First-up after 80 week spell and having first start for a new trainer. Has won or placed in all races to date. Looks a safe bet.

.............. come the mountain day --------- FLOKI ................$5 on @ 25 for a $125 collect.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Sep-13, 06:55 AM
So now thereís no Smokey being spirited in  :lol:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Jun-22, 05:10 PM
Looking forward to this years edition after the devastating win of a Front Page on Saturday. :no1: :no1:

Did you get the early price Peter?
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Jun-22, 05:30 PM


........... there is no 'country race' run in the city that is credibly the richest in the world


.....not sensible either is going the early crow about the prospects of the winner of winter-race -- one now notable only for the interference that wrecked it and the massive T andF4 dividends that followed -- $20k&125k.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Jun-22, 07:17 PM
So you didnít get on Front Page?😆
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Jun-25, 11:03 AM

........... there is no 'country race' run in the city that is credibly the richest in the world


.....not sensible either is going the early crow about the prospects of the winner of winter-race -- one now notable only for the interference that wrecked it and the massive T andF4 dividends that followed -- $20k&125k.

I only put that in the heading to stir up people like you   :lol:

Front Page made them look second rate in the Creswick wily. How good was that when asked for an effort  :clap2:

They have knocked back a big offer from Hong Kong reportedly (what constitutes an "offer" can be dubious sometimes e.g. "Yes we buy him but pay later").

He is $6 second favourite behind Snitz who is toppie for the John Carlton Cup at Grafton on Sunday.

3rd favourite Handle The Truth was 2nd to Viridine in the Listed Civic Stks on Saturday.

Great race coming up.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Jun-25, 04:45 PM
Linked the great Front Page up with all the Bob a Peters horses coming east  for the carnivals :thumbsup:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: gunbower on 2020-Jun-25, 07:11 PM
No offense PP , but not sure how a race including "Handle the Truth, " Snitz " and co makes it a " great " race. Campaigners of that quality go around every week . Maybe you meant competitive. Believe me I am not on the edge of my seat waiting for it to happen.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Jun-25, 08:15 PM

...... a racing hoax

The so-called 'richest' country race 'in the world' is just a hoax.

The RNSW  intention, plain and simple, is to ensure that, on Everest-day, entourages of travelers from country NSW, are on-course to support local 'champions' that managed to get a start.

These 'rural exploited' are presumably precluded from the hand-outs of tickets to swell the appearance of a crowd in the members-stand.

............... this is a dare-to-be-great marketing tactic intended to promote one day when Sydney actually gets a crowd ....... those so then pictured 'in the crowd' should have their names published so the master-in-lunacy can prepare a case for their kids to be put in charge.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Jun-26, 09:32 AM
No offense PP , but not sure how a race including "Handle the Truth, " Snitz " and co makes it a " great " race. Campaigners of that quality go around every week . Maybe you meant competitive. Believe me I am not on the edge of my seat waiting for it to happen.

There are a lot of people who follow country racing and the feature country races are a great spectacle. The new concept of having Grand Finals in the city have been a great success. The TAB Highways were only supposed to run for 6 months before they thought interest would peter out. Tomorrow's Highway had 21 acceptances. More than any other race in the country.

Look at it this way. If people like wily and I are taking an interest in this race, and you are not, then who is missing out?

Grafton carnival kicks off on Sunday gunbower and Snitz has come up at $1.80 in the Carlton and will carry 62 kg.

Toby Edmonds setting Ocean's Addict for the Cup. Waller usually sends a couple up and Gai has won the Cup several times. Kris Lees has said that the McKell favourite is being set for the Cup.

Then there is the Ramornie. Graff and Snitz have been mentioned as possible runners.

You should follow the 4 day carnival. You might just find it a bit more of a spectacle than you think  ;)
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Jun-26, 04:28 PM
I luv the Grafton carnival. 🥰🥰
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Jun-26, 07:24 PM
There are a lot of people who follow country racing and the feature country races are a great spectacle. The new concept of having Grand Finals in the city have been a great success. The TAB Highways were only supposed to run for 6 months before they thought interest would peter out. Tomorrow's Highway had 21 acceptances. More than any other race in the country.

Look at it this way. If people like wily and I are taking an interest in this race, and you are not, then who is missing out?



You know it's a success when syndicators are placing horses with country trainers to specifically target races like the Kosciuszko & Country Championships.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Jun-26, 07:41 PM
Exactly Gin, the quality & depth of the country horses is rising. Everyoneís a winner 🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: gunbower on 2020-Jun-26, 08:22 PM
PP you miss the point . I am not a spectacle punter or whatever that is . I bet every day so naturally I have a more than adequate knowledge of Country Racing. To me a 6/1 winner of a maiden at Tuncurry has exactly the same excitement as a 6/1 winner at Randwick . Couldn't care less. It is only the truly great horses that make me take off the punters hat. And Snitz and co hardly fill the bill . But be assured I will be watching them with great interest.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Jun-27, 02:31 AM
You know it's a success when syndicators are placing horses with country trainers to specifically target races like the Kosciuszko & Country Championships.

Jazirat was dispersed by Godolphin on-line through Inglis and picked up by Dynamic for $70k just recently.

Last ran on the 2nd June in the Godolphin blue.

Goes around in the Dynamic colours for Ciaron Maher in the 2nd at Newcastle tomorrow and a big chance of recouping $15k in what is a pretty weak maiden over a mile.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Jun-28, 12:16 AM
Yulong Base is another that was purchased by Aussie Bloodstock and sent to Cody Morgan, ran 2nd first up for them at Scone last Friday.

Suggest it would be aimed as a Country Champ type horse.

Camp Rifle was another from the Godolphin draft that went for only $12k - in tomorrow at Grafton
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Jun-28, 07:16 PM


.........be careful........ the Master-in-Lunacy monitors this forum....
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Jun-28, 08:02 PM

.........be careful........ the Master-in-Lunacy monitors this forum....

I'm convinced he posts on this forum  ;)
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Jun-28, 09:03 PM

More than one

......... it is not only the not-wily-one.... there are more ...... but, posting anonymously, it is not clear which team they are kicking for ... they come across like plants of industry-funding thieves.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Jun-29, 08:06 AM
Iím an industry plant  :biggrin:   :lol:    :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

No wonder you got sacked, youíre an idiot  :tin:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Jun-29, 09:40 PM


.............. the harder they suck .....the higher dopes get!
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Jun-30, 11:18 AM
So, lets try this then and see who the dope is. :no1:

I will give you my personal details and whatever proof you want. IF you are correct and I am in fact an "idnustry plant" as you continue to put it, I will rsign from this forum for good.

IF and it's a big IF in your mind.  If, I  am NOT  a "plant/insider", you resign frtom the forum

Sound fair to you? afterall it is both of us backing up our accusations :thumbsup:

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2020-Jun-30, 04:23 PM
Wily

You sound like an 'industry plant' to me.  And I think I read where Monty thinks so too.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Villa on 2020-Jun-30, 04:47 PM
Maybe you could back up your claim with PM.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Jun-30, 09:26 PM
Wily

You sound like an 'industry plant' to me.  And I think I read where Monty thinks so too.


I am and I offered Pete the chance to rid the forum of me but he refused to put his credibility on the line.
I guess thatís cuz he has none 😱
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Jul-01, 06:13 PM

Strike me roan ------- The Kosciuszko is off again


The race to secure a slot in the 2020 The Kosciuszko began in earnest on Wednesday with tickets now available to purchase for punters looking to claim a spot in the $1.3 million race.

From July 1 people can buy $5 tickets which will be randomly drawn on Wednesday, September 9..........


...................all that can be said sensibly has been.......I promise to not say another word about it.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Jul-01, 09:08 PM


...................all that can be said sensibly has been.......I promise to not say another word about it.


Than Fock for that. Thank you

I bought my $20 worth
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Sep-14, 07:44 AM


Kosciuszko ..... on a slippery slope........... how many tickets sold?

Kosciusko eligibility needs tightening

The success of The Kosciuszko can be measured in many ways, in particular the record number of tickets sold this year, but Racing NSW needs to close loopholes on horses that can run in it.

The race was designed to be a showcase for country trainers and give them a crack at a $1.3 million prize, but it is in danger of becoming a race for those with the deepest pockets or smart owners who swap horses to a country area.

The best stories from this race are horses that have always been trained in the bush. To safeguard them there needs to be a stricter eligibility rule.

A horse who has won a metropolitan race for a metropolitan trainer should not be eligible unless it has spent more than 12 months in a country trainerís stable and had at least one start in a country region.

That would eliminate horses being bought for the race or moved to a country trainer a couple of months out from The Kosciuszko and never starting in the bush, as is the case with a couple of runners this year.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Sep-14, 08:49 AM
A horse who has won a metropolitan race for a metropolitan trainer should not be eligible unless it has spent more than 12 months in a country trainerís stable and had at least one start in a country region.


So who are those horses that donít comply with the above?
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Maximus on 2020-Sep-14, 05:53 PM
A horse who has won a metropolitan race for a metropolitan trainer should not be eligible unless it has spent more than 12 months in a country trainerís stable and had at least one start in a country region.


So who are those horses that donít comply with the above?

Intuition and Redouble look like they fit the criteria. I'd add another one that all owners must have their bona fide main residence in a country area.

Just realised that could still be rorted by the Scone breeding magnates. Add another criteria - each owner must have an annual income of less than $100,000, verified by the ATO.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Sep-14, 07:12 PM
Intuition and Redouble look like they fit the criteria. I'd add another one that all owners must have their bona fide main residence in a country area.

Just realised that could still be rorted by the Scone breeding magnates. Add another criteria - each owner must have an annual income of less than $100,000, verified by the ATO.

Well that would rule you out on income Maximus - all those dollars you rip out of the bookies bags.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Maximus on 2020-Sep-14, 07:37 PM
Well that would rule you out on income Maximus - all those dollars you rip out of the bookies bags.

Turn it up  :stop: - I can only afford to go to the midweeks because its free to get in. Even then I've got to hang around the winning owner's area hoping they can't eat the complimentary sandwiches - no good when the syndicates have a winner but you can usually score a couple if a Godolphin one gets home. 
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Sep-14, 08:28 PM


Oh what a tangled web is weaved when deception is contrived

......... racing industry administrators are too inclined to see 'on course crowds' as a KPI.

The COVID has exposed that -- racing prospers while 'no one' is on-course as part of any crowd.

RNSW 'dared to be great' with the 'richest race in the world' .............but to climb an everest they needed to salt the mine with a crowd-puller in the form of a Kosciuszko 'hill' to have country people come to 'the big smoke' for the day ........and then handed out freebies to members mates ....... and claimed a 'crowd'.

This nonsense started with the 'highway robbery' races as the first leg of early quadrellas ..... this was blatant deception of sucker punters ....... rough results.

So, who is surprised when the smarter connections start gaming the rules............. rural racing people were taken for a ride with the 'robbery' races.

The same goes for RVLs 'no-star-mile' retaliation ......the rules were so silly to start with that the original concept has been abandoned in favour of a 'two-in-one' race where the 'voted' compete for 10th and the 'selected' vie for the win.

......... all this, from an industry that screams its commitment to 'integrity' ......harshly penalizing 'participants' for trivial offenses ...........and adopting inflated-field policies to rort most punters while pandering to the corporate bookmakers and rebate-taking syndicates.

............. after some two decades ........I did today cancel a Foxtel account only ever used to access racing stuff.

The Australian racing industry is on the skids ......... it is engaged in deliberate deception that will bring it undone.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Sep-14, 09:02 PM
Turn it up  :stop: - I can only afford to go to the midweeks because its free to get in. Even then I've got to hang around the winning owner's area hoping they can't eat the complimentary sandwiches - no good when the syndicates have a winner but you can usually score a couple if a Godolphin one gets home.

That's what we tell the taxman at least  ;)

A bit like Zjelko and Walsh telling everyone "I won that money on 27 Red"
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Sep-14, 09:47 PM

Kosciuszko ..... on a slippery slope........... how many tickets sold?


The best stories from this race are horses that have always been trained in the bush. To safeguard them there needs to be a stricter eligibility rule.

A horse who has won a metropolitan race for a metropolitan trainer should not be eligible unless it has spent more than 12 months in a country trainerís stable and had at least one start in a country region.

That would eliminate horses being bought for the race or moved to a country trainer a couple of months out from The Kosciuszko and never starting in the bush, as is the case with a couple of runners this year.

Could probably agree that the current 3 months could be extended out to 6 months.

As for the rest, it stimulates interest, creates a market for owners to seek out the right type of horse. The likes of Cody Morgan have seen horses purchased and sent to him for this and the country champ race - please explain how this is a bad thing?

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Sep-15, 01:34 PM

The policy concepts are just not sound.

I do not believe it is good policy to pretend 'metropolitan' and 'rural' racing are substitutes.

Offering big money for races restricted to 'rural' contenders is an invitation to game the rules and, in effect, exclude rural contenders .....and it further confounds the business to run 'rural' events in  the city ............ the sense of deception is evident in the rough results of the 'highway' races and the mountain and 'no star' races.

.....and all this is driven by some misguided administrators' ambitions to have 'crowds on course'.
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Sep-15, 03:05 PM
the sense of deception is evident in the rough results of the 'highway' races '.


Youíre either ignorant or a bald faced liar.....or London to a brick on for both  :lol:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Sep-15, 04:52 PM
............ the sense of deception is evident in the rough results of the 'highway' races and the mountain and 'no star' races.


  :lol:

You still on about that "Rough Results" = "Corrupt Racing" stuff Pete?

  :lol:
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Sep-15, 05:47 PM
Yep, despite favoured horses winning more often than not.
At a guess Iíd say 4 of the last 5 winners have been fave or 2nd fave.

The blokes a clown and a self promoting liar.

Heís already confessed to that 8-)
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Sep-17, 10:16 AM
Away from the politicking (I have often opined on this forum that when you get people bitching about "too much prizemoney" then you know they are scraping the bottom of the barrel and it can be used that an indicator that the race club is actually doing something right) there are a couple of runners on the weekend that will be interesting to follow.

The favourite Front Page is running at Caulfield in an 1100m race. $2.80 in pre-post.

It's Me, on the 5th line of betting will attempt back to back highways at Randwick. $1.75 in early markets.

Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Sep-17, 05:31 PM
I luv Front Page 💖
Title: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Sep-19, 02:22 PM
That win by It's Me was just breathtaking. Dare I say it a win of almost Winx like domination.

The unbeaten 4yo mare is now the Kozzie favourite and no wonder.

Front Page not disgraced in Melbourne but then again compared to It's Me  :chin:

Thought the apprentice made a mistake in not serving it up a bit more to the leader earlier with the light weight on it's back.