2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race - N.S.W Gallops - Racehorse TALK harm-plan

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2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race - N.S.W Gallops - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: 2018 The Kosciuszko - World's Richest Country Race  (Read 2111 times)

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Offline Jeunes

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« 2018-Oct-13, 02:00 PM Reply #25 »
Did not back the winnner or the placegetters but watching the interviews after the race, you see what it means to the owners and slot holders. Great boost to the country and Kudos to Vlandys and co.

The only negative is the race got lost in the hype this week and could be an added bonus to Epsom Day or Spring Champion Stakes day.

Offline ianb

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« 2018-Oct-13, 06:46 PM Reply #26 »
As against The Everest I think this race is a farce. The race was worth $1.3 million dollars and was won by a reasonable horse in Bellflyer. But why should a listed /group3 class horse be entitled to this much money?

It is exactly like the supplementary races  on Magic Million 2 year old  and 3yr old  Guineas day - horses going nowhere who end up winning much more than genuine Group1 winners.

And  yes although the Everest prize money is obscene, it does at least attract  our best sprinters and has saved the Queensland Winter racing carnival.

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Oct-13, 07:02 PM Reply #27 »
Kosciusko Kaper -- FIRST$4 dividend pays $95,000

This nonsense should never have been put into effect.

Total turnover on the NSW and Vic TABs was about $2 million --- there is no way the 5% 'take' from total turnover on the race would warrant the prize-money offered.

[....even the everest with some $10 million across both TABs is hardly sensible.]

Just wait for the administrators and 'independent' media to explain how wonderful this was.

I cannot imagine that most punters have any affection for the highway stuff  at any time and over-paying prize-money to runners that do not belong in town is hardly sensible ever.

The offence is only compounded when the punters are seduced with over-hyped nonsense to kick in big prize-money for a contrived event mocking rural racing.

There could be a deafening silence come Saturday.

 ..............all a bit of a shambles really -- the concept may be racing into equine mortality.




Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Oct-14, 07:39 AM Reply #28 »


Sweet and sour on the kosciuszko climb down

.......................shock Kosciuszko win

      ...............................the soft-talking Grafton trainer was still trying to comprehend what had just happened, a horse he wanted to put the paddock a couple of months ago hanging around and winning the first $1.3 million The Kosciuszko for country-trained horses.

It was his biggest win on a racetrack. Ditto Hyeronimus. The first prize purse was worth $685,000.

And the fact they did it with a $71 outsider just made it even sweeter.


Not everyone was pleased that a flawed concept unfolded as expected.

Offline Spudda028

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« 2018-Oct-14, 07:53 AM Reply #29 »
I take it Monty didnít find you the winner Peter? What a shame you continue with your politically motivated rants across multiple threads on the forum

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-14, 08:49 AM Reply #30 »
As against The Everest I think this race is a farce. The race was worth $1.3 million dollars and was won by a reasonable horse in Bellflyer. But why should a listed /group3 class horse be entitled to this much money?

It is exactly like the supplementary races  on Magic Million 2 year old  and 3yr old  Guineas day - horses going nowhere who end up winning much more than genuine Group1 winners.

And  yes although the Everest prize money is obscene, it does at least attract  our best sprinters and has saved the Queensland Winter racing carnival.

It is not real prizemoney though. It comes from the slot holders.

This point was made when they first announced the race which is a copy of the Pegasus World Cup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_World_Cup

Personally I don't think they should be allowed to advertise the "prizemoney" (and said this at the time the race was announced - just have to say that for all the sad trolls who have nothing better to do with their life than stalk and flame me).

But....

What has happened is that Racing NSW have observed what Victoria has done with their marketing e.g. Cox Plate is the WFA Championship of Australia, Melbourne Events Capital of the world, all that bull.

They have then managed to market this race as "the richest turf race in the world".

The media love that sort of stuff and have seemed quite happy to run with it.

That is the way it goes these days. So if the Victorians are upset they probably only have themselves to blame.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-14, 08:52 AM Reply #31 »
...and on a more positive note congratulations to the connections of the winner.

Really great outcome for country NSW racing.

With the recent announcements of Martin Pakula on the increase in prizemoney for Victorian country racing it really is happy days for the good folk involved with country racing throughout NSW and Victoria.   emthup

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Oct-14, 09:30 AM Reply #32 »


I take it Monty didnít find you the winner ...?

                                                                               ...........'no one' found the winner.

Country racing belongs in the country:  this k kaper is patronizing nonsense -- disrespects rural Australia..

Online wily ole dog

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« 2018-Oct-14, 09:39 AM Reply #33 »
Now youíre speaking on behalf of rural Australia but Iím sure they donít welcome your condemnation, ignorance or arrogance  :bulb:

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-14, 09:51 AM Reply #34 »
Now youíre speaking on behalf of rural Australia but Iím sure they donít welcome your condemnation, ignorance or arrogance  :bulb:

Mate. I can tell you very definitely that many city people speak on behalf of rural Australia and that most of these people have never lived outside a capital city.

Included in this are the geniuses who levy the same rate of tax for things like petrol, alcohol, tobacco, GST, etc. in spite of the fact that country people earn less than their city counterparts.

A couple of decades of this has seen the quality of life for country people go down relative to their city cousins. The kids have all had to leave their homes to look for work in the cities so the towns lose out. There is no acknowledgement of this problem and no attempt to fix it.

So can you imagine country people rolling their eyes when city based media complain about traffic and overcrowding?

That is why it is so refreshingly nice to see something going back into country racing. Well done to Racing NSW, RVL and their respective governments.   emthup

Ignorant opinions from city based commentators like Peter Mair are infuriating for rural people - based on my experience of having lived in rural NSW for many years even though I am reluctantly back in Sin City these days.

Online fours

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« 2018-Oct-14, 09:56 AM Reply #35 »
PP7,

While you have my sympathy on some of this are you not forgetting that property is much cheaper and rents too in the country.     These two costs probably far

outweigh the costs you have mentioned in total.

Fours

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Oct-14, 10:15 AM Reply #36 »


............patronizing and mocking nonsense



Nothing wrong with state governments giving money to rural Australia.

                                                                                                        ....... and more as needed.

There are two problems here.

First, money raised as 'taxes' should be given cleanly and not 'washed' through the pockets of local racing participants . This is political stable-barrelling.  It is unlikely that rural communities prefer to have the local racing fraternity get first cut of any 'surplus city money' sent their way.

Whatever truth there may have been in rural race meetings being the 'social hub' is now just CUBs.

Second, it is a waste of money to require rural racers to come to Sydney so that they can be patronized and mocked. Week in and week out expensive horse transports and stable entourages are trundling down the highways to have a costly day in the big smoke. No one needs this.

.......even rural racing industry people would hardly choose to spend any 'racing largesse' given to them  forcing everyone to go to Sydney -- hyped into the deception of having a city metrop winner. Also Bs.

This whole concept is just patronizing and mocking nonsense and rural racing should say so.




Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-14, 10:41 AM Reply #37 »
PP7,

While you have my sympathy on some of this are you not forgetting that property is much cheaper and rents too in the country.

Fours

The reason they are cheaper is that the populations are dropping because the kids move to the city and there is no demand. This is one of the contributing reasons for the high price of real estate in capital cities (along with migration policies that add to the overcrowding problem).

Consequently there is no room for growth in the cities. The government needs to have policies that allows for growth in our larger provincial cities and includes inducements for companies to relocate jobs there.

Back on topic - the racing industries in NSW and Victoria are providing the inducements for jobs growth in their industry outside of capital cities through prizemoney increases.

Instead of the default negative response from city based social and mainstream media "experts" sitting on their arse with nothing better to do, maybe they deserve praise and perhaps provide a model for governments to use for other industries as well  :bulb:

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-14, 10:46 AM Reply #38 »

............patronizing and mocking nonsense



Nothing wrong with state governments giving money to rural Australia.

                                                                                                        ....... and more as needed.

There are two problems here.

First, money raised as 'taxes' should be given cleanly and not 'washed' through the pockets of local racing participants . This is political stable-barrelling.  It is unlikely that rural communities prefer to have the local racing fraternity get first cut of any 'surplus city money' sent their way.

Whatever truth there may have been in rural race meetings being the 'social hub' is now just CUBs.

Second, it is a waste of money to require rural racers to come to Sydney so that they can be patronized and mocked. Week in and week out expensive horse transports and stable entourages are trundling down the highways to have a costly day in the big smoke. No one needs this.

.......even rural racing industry people would hardly choose to spend any 'racing largesse' given to them  forcing everyone to go to Sydney -- hyped into the deception of having a city metrop winner. Also Bs.

This whole concept is just patronizing and mocking nonsense and rural racing should say so.

Peter. You are on record as saying they should get rid of country racing.

How's that for city-based patronizing!!!

I cannot understand a lot of the other stuff you are trying to say  :what:

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Oct-14, 11:19 AM Reply #39 »


...........more than patronizing nonsense, it is wasteful political vote-buying


The rural racing industry is a mine shaft across the nation.

No other country wastes so much money in this way.  Most of the resources in the racing industry would be more productive in another industry.

The states 'must have' their own array of pyramids built with community money........but the faithful are wavering ........Queensland and SA simply cannot keep  putting money down the shaft. POC taxes will cut the cord -- take the 'take' from the local punters but use it differently.

There is no way a proper 'cost benefit' assessment would allow racing money to be taken cleanly from the public purse -- it is only available with a political trick, community money that belongs in the public purse is instead milked as 'take' from TABs and bookmakers and  put in the discretionary hands of racing administrators to build their racing pyramids.

The next part of the trick is for the community to believe that too-much-money for racing is some reflection of the administrators 'asking for more'. The administrators get the 'kudos/blame.

The politicians may not love these 'more' questions but they cannot say 'no' lest they lose the race to the bottom of the shaft.

Why do they do it  -- it is about rural electorates  - they dare not give less than more -- the 'racing lobby' in towns is an amalgam of bi-partisan support -- it is the winning vote margin -- either party not kicking the racing tin would be out on its ear.


Offline Gintara

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« 2018-Oct-14, 03:30 PM Reply #40 »
As against The Everest I think this race is a farce. The race was worth $1.3 million dollars and was won by a reasonable horse in Bellflyer. But why should a listed /group3 class horse be entitled to this much money?

It is exactly like the supplementary races  on Magic Million 2 year old  and 3yr old  Guineas day - horses going nowhere who end up winning much more than genuine Group1 winners.

And  yes although the Everest prize money is obscene, it does at least attract  our best sprinters and has saved the Queensland Winter racing carnival.

Wasn't the race self funding? 250,000 tickets @ $5 = $1,250,000

I know they didn't sell all of them but it was upwards of 200k, so the money isn't coming out of the normal pot.

My issue was some of the rumoured prizemoney splits  :chin: Care To Think was rumoured to be 85:15 in favour of the connections. Whilst that all went to pot with the horses scratching imho connections of eligible horses need to be careful not to bite the hand that feeds them as who'd want to invest good money attempting to win a ticket let alone get the short end of the wedge.

I know it's up to the two parties to come to an agreement  :bulb:

The winning slot holder brought 20 tickets only and set out to find the run on, strong horse. Worked out pretty good for him   emthup
 

Offline Spudda028

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« 2018-Oct-14, 04:07 PM Reply #41 »
Peter your ignorance clearly knows no bounds as evidenced by your comments.
I found Belflyer & tipped it to another forumite who fed up with the BS on here of late like many no longer posts
What about the owner that jagged 91's fixed ?? Happy days indeed !!!

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Oct-14, 04:37 PM Reply #42 »


Winners are grinners -- the rest can please themselves.

I never begrudge a win for the battlers and the wash up on 528 was great TV.

My concern is a different one -- it is about politicians and racing administrators taking advantage of the rural racing set to aggrandize themselves.

They will be self-feeding on the mountain races for months and be back at it again.

More generally my concern extends to the 'profits before people' mindset that now rules racing. Paying substantial prize-money to run 10th is no way to protect the integrity of the racing. It is a formula to rip more off most punters now facing actual 'deductions' of 100% on most days to the benefit of corporates and syndicates feeding on 'rough results'.

Dare to be great races paying grossly excessive prize-money and a bloated rural racing industry living on subsidies to cover staging expenses is no way to run the business.

......and as for the 200,000 tickets 'sold' to punters -- tell that to the marines.

Racing is a long game  - prospectively, only if it is run fairly in the interests of the 'most punters' that pay all the freight.


Offline Gintara

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« 2018-Oct-14, 04:56 PM Reply #43 »
Can anyone make sense of what he's saying  :what: (he'll never answer if I asked)

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Oct-14, 05:34 PM Reply #44 »


..................the sense of it


In Australia the racing industry is run like a Ponzi-scheme.

Racing is only kept afloat by taking ever-more money from punters (and the public purse) and misusing it to prop up separate state fiefdoms bloated beyond comprehension.

Read the sad story about racing in Queensland -- the political consensus there is shifting from 'support' to 'abandonment' and the consequences will be bloody. Same in SA.

RacingNSW and RacingVictoria are in a fight to the death -- the weapon is money and the outcome is about which state walks.

Meantime the administration of racing is ever more institutionally corrupted -- misusing inflated fields and fixed-odds betting with 'rough results' guaranteed to collar more money from punters to fight the war.

The punters will eventually wake up to what is going on and revolt.

I no longer have any respect for carnival capers in 'Cup week' while betting on Victorian  nights, mid-weeks and standalones has been a certifiable offence for years.

 

Offline Spudda028

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« 2018-Oct-14, 05:43 PM Reply #45 »
Peter I doubt you actually understand the definitions of the statements that you make
Yet again you manage to sneak your objection about prize money being paid down to tenth & you rant about Qld & Vic racing but you are on the Kosciuszko race thread
As off topic as it gets
Can one of you stewards intervene & delete please - the record is broken!

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Oct-14, 06:04 PM Reply #46 »


 the Kosciuszko race thread

                    -- is about a deception that is one illustration of a more general step-back from politicians and administrators dealing with punters and other participants in a sustainably honest way.

Running country races in Sydney does not make sense for anyone -- apart from the urgers.

 

Offline Gintara

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« 2018-Oct-14, 08:33 PM Reply #47 »
FFS Pete - do you realise how this race was funded?

Once you understand that, all your waffle is irrelevant as it simply has no weight in this case.

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Oct-14, 10:02 PM Reply #48 »


Neither me nor you -- until we are told

....and we wont be told the accountable truth.

If some 200,000 tickets were sold , it is most likely that rural race clubs bought most - 'on behalf of their members'.

The average punter may be old but is not silly -- some may have bought a couple but would wish they had not.

This tripe about ticket funding will not be repeated if there is any audited accountability for 'who bought what'.


Online wily ole dog

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« 2018-Oct-15, 06:46 AM Reply #49 »

 the Kosciuszko race thread

                    -- is about a deception that is one illustration of a more general step-back from politicians and administrators dealing with punters and other participants in a sustainably honest way.

Running country races in Sydney does not make sense for anyone -- apart from the urgers.

 Noted that urgers in Mairs mind means  anyone who disagrees with him :shutup:


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