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2019 MELBOURNE CUP - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: 2019 MELBOURNE CUP  (Read 10392 times)

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Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Oct-28, 03:21 PM Reply #25 »
From AAP

Forty two horses left in Melbourne Cup

Four horses among the remaining 42 vying for the 24 spots in the Melbourne Cup field have been the subjects of veterinary scrutiny.

Defending Cup titleholder Cross Counter and 2018 runner-up Marmelo, along with Ispolini and Southern France have undergone tests.

Trained in England by Charlie Appleby, Cross Counter has undergone a precautionary CT scan at the University of Melbourne Equine Clinic and passed suitable to continue his preparation.

His Godolphin stablemate Ispolini has been referred to the clinic to also undergo a scan after displaying soreness when inspected by Racing Victoria vets.

The stable has ordered further tests on Monday afternoon at the Ballarat Equine Clinic.

Marmelo was also scanned after showing soreness and RV vets will discuss the results with trainer Hughie Morrison who is en route to Australia from England.

Trainers Ciaron Maher and David Eustace have advised RV vets they have been undertaking precautionary veterinary testing on Southern France at the Werribee quarantine centre as the imported horse continues his preparation.

Third acceptances for the Cup were taken on Monday and include Japanese horse, Caulfield Cup winner, Mer De Glace to be ridden by Damian Lane who is aiming for a clean sweep of Australia's four major races this year.

Former European Constantinople, now with Lindsay Park, is the Cup favourite after his fourth in the Caulfield Cup.

He will be ridden by Hong Kong-based Joao Moreira unless Glen Boss can have a careless riding suspension overturned.

Among the notable defections are Avilius, Homesman, Yucatan, Verry Elleegant, Shraaoh, Mr Quickie and Big Duke.

Final acceptances for the Melbourne Cup will be taken on Saturday with the winner of the Hotham Handicap eligible for a start.


https://www.aapmegaform.com.au/news/article.aspx?article-id=497475&category=RN

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-28, 07:03 PM Reply #26 »
One of the more open MC cups.

Current order of entry below. Fascinating at the number of OíBrien runners. Quite interested to see what happens this weekend.

https://cdn.racing.com/-/media/rv/2019-rv/news/files/2019-lexus-melbourne-cup-order-of-entry-as-at-oct-28

Online Peter Mair

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« 2019-Oct-28, 10:43 PM Reply #27 »

Can we have a forum poll on the question of the Cup -- and Cup Day -- being devalued, or not.

.......... awaiting the race outcomes for 'cup day' one can only wonder why any serious punter would waste time doing the 'form' and money backing an ill informed opinion?

........... public interest and betting turnover are headed south..... yet RVL persists in running a rort.

Offline Dave

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« 2019-Oct-28, 11:01 PM Reply #28 »
When comparing overseas horses to Aussie(staying) horses there seems to be one point that is always overlooked by many pundits......Training facilities.....they all have the very best training facilities, not only in their own countries but when they are given carte blanche to do what they like at Werribee.....i.e. access to the course proper 24/7......something I am sure Aussie trainers would kill for, Aussie trainers are under pressure to be finished working dozens or even 100's of horses( with Waller) in the dark and be finished by 7.30/8am when the track closes........where as the overseas horses spend much more time working at their leisure and can do as many laps as they want, there is a huge difference working on a Course proper to the inside training tracks, which are more akin to a dog track in both circumference and quality.....saying they are better really is a self fulfilling prophecy..........
Don't get me wrong they generally are better, but they do get that added advantage as well
Another point.........Contrary to popular opinion our Breeding isn't really obsessed with breeding Sprinters, Our breeding industry doesn't give a flying F*#k about Aussie racing, sprinting or staying!!!!!......
What drives them is fast turn over,
When a buyer purchases a Sprinter they will be back next year whether it is a Champion or a complete Dud, either way they know fairly soon
Whereas if they buy a stayer they won't be back for 2/3/4 years until they know if they have a Champ or a dud......that is why they are obsessed with sprinters....MONEY.....it is all about yearling prices and getting all the buyers there every year to compete with each other.....
Most of the big trainers train for big breeders so they keep their mouths shut....same reason racenet and the Telegraph etc won't allow criticism of racing, vested interests, advertising $$$$'s the public only gets told what they want you to know, which is about 1% of the truth(artistic licence).....there are many things in racing folklore that people hear all the time so assume they are true that are complete lies........in this respect I agree with Pete in racing there is a lot of BS...just on different points.....always be suspicious when self interest is at stake

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-29, 07:28 AM Reply #29 »
Dave, you are spot on with the breeding point. Only way it changes if we have more middle distance and staying races. However with the Everest, Slipper, Coolmore etc there is more pressure for 2-3 yo sprinters.

If all the racing states doubled the prizemoney of all G1 races 1400m and up, it could change the landscape in 3-4 years but will never happen.

Other than our sprinters, the o/s runners are stronger and better than our runners. Our WFA G1 winners were made to look second rate during the Cox  Plate. Sad but this could be the way again every spring for the next few years.

Offline ianb

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« 2019-Oct-29, 12:38 PM Reply #30 »
We can blame the breeding industry,the quick return that owners want and the training facilities but these are not the major problems. If staying racing in Australia is to improve we have to build from the bottom up. Take tomorrow's Bendigo, Hawkesbury,Ascot and Ipswich meetings. Bendigo has the 2400M Bendigo Cup; Hawkesbury has  a benchmark 64 over 2000M;Ascot has a class3 over 1800M and Ipswich does not have a race further than 1700 M. So that is 3 races further than 1700M out of 32 races.

It's the race clubs fault pure and simple.

You might say we don't have the horses that are bred to go further. The sires of the last 2 Melbourne Cups were Teofilo and High Chaparral.Both had numerous years shuttling to Australia and NZ. Then there is So You Think who has had 136 runners so far this season. He appeared to be siring winners in the 1400-1600M range but he has 2 fancied runners in the Derby on Saturday. So perhaps there just weren't the races for his earlier crops.Also Pierro and Dundeel can obviously get horses who can stay.

Sure Waller and Waterhouse are restricted to training in the metropolitan area but James Cummings has Agnes Banks, Hayes trains at Euroa and McEvoy Anguston. So the facilities are there for at least 3 of the leading trainers.

The owners can see no advantage in racing their horse in staying races when there are almost no races to compete in.

You are right Dave it is all about the money but I suggest it is all about how much the various racing organisations can make from the punters rather than attempting to improve our staying horses.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2019-Oct-29, 02:50 PM Reply #31 »
Quite simply Australia has a fast food culture and every has to be quick quick or quick

Online specialweek2

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« 2019-Oct-29, 03:33 PM Reply #32 »
The betting companies can fit more races in when shorter distances, more turnover.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-29, 04:55 PM Reply #33 »
Quite simply Australia has a fast food culture and every has to be quick quick or quick

Not in everything, Wily.  ;)

Online wily ole dog

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« 2019-Oct-29, 05:29 PM Reply #34 »
Not with the blue 💊☺️

Online arthur

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« 2019-Oct-29, 05:34 PM Reply #35 »
Not with the blue 💊☺️

Even with that . . If you don't swallow quick,quick . . You get a stiff neck . .





So I've heard

Offline Dave

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« 2019-Oct-29, 06:15 PM Reply #36 »
Even the likes of the Hayes/McEvoy Godolphin yards having their own facilities isn't the same advantage as training at a Track like Werribee with access to a top class Course Proper that is relatively close to the big smoke.....they struggle to get quality staff, what young person wants to live in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do when the work day is finished??
99% of their labor force is transient for those stables, they bring in stable staff from overseas but when their visa expires they must pack their bags and go, replaced by the next wave,
If you go back and look at most Champs/Top class racehorses they all have one thing in common......a strapper that sticks with them wherever they go, it is akin to a love affair, the strapper loves the horse......but what isn't taken into account by many is the fact that the Horse loves the strapper too, they build a rapport that helps them both, especially the horse..........it makes for a happy horse, a happy horse is a horse that will fight every inch of a race,
The strapper lives for the horse and notices even the smallest of changes, this is very important info for the trainer, they put total trust in the person looking after the horse......they can't really do that for someone they only know by looking at their CV, can they?
When you have a transient workforce that vital ingredient never gets a chance to grow.........
My point is there is a lot more to training a horse than just the physicality aspect of it......the overseas horses have it all.....the person travelling with them loves them and virtually lives with them 24/7

Offline Dave

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« 2019-Oct-29, 06:36 PM Reply #37 »
To answer another point brought up re the programming of more staying races......The race clubs have access to the horses in training in their areas, if no stayers are in work and they program staying races they won't get enough entries to make a race, it's a catch 22........
The real problem is too much money for WFA, set weight and baby races and restricted races of any kind.....and far too many choices for the best horses to dodge each other!.....
If you look at the Cox Plate history.....it has been won by Phar Lap(twice) Tobin Bronze(Twice) Chatham(Twice) and Rising Fast (in between his Caulfield and Melbourne Cup wins)
My point is WFA races do not need huge prizemoney to get the best horses, they will run in them anyway.......Huge money for WFA races doesn't improve the WFA race it only detracts from the peoples races.....the big handicaps, WFA racing promotes the best horses, Handicaps promotes the best racing.....where battlers can still win.
 John Wayne never won an Oscar until they felt sorry for him at the end of his career......but he put more bums on seats than any 20 Oscar winners.........Were there better actors....sure there were.........but he was the one the people loved the most.........again my point is it isn't always about sheer ability that people admire, being a bully and beating up on horses(or people) with known lesser ability isn't something that engenders admiration or makes you a hero, you have to "beat the odds" to be a Hero.....that is what is missing in today's racing and why only Drunks go to the races!.....and why Punters stray at home, there are very few who actually admire and respect the Thoroughbred Horse anymore and that's a shame!

Online Peter Mair

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« 2019-Oct-30, 04:47 AM Reply #38 »


The great race --don't tell Amanda Elliott this:

Moreira has received special clearance from Hong Kong stewards to ride in the Melbourne Cup given they only release jockeys for overseas races which are rated in the worldís top 100. The Melbourne Cup doesnít fulfill that criteria.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-30, 06:23 AM Reply #39 »
There is another issue with Moreira coming to ride. Conspiracy theories can start now with the Boss suspension.

Racing NSW Appeals board have upto 9 days before hearing an appeal. They donít have the time to convene till the 9th day which happens to be the day before the MC. Thus Moreira may not have a ride which means he may not be allowed to come and VRC could also lose a drawcard. The action does hot up.

Below article asks a few questions.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/glen-boss-appeal-to-ride-melbourne-cup-favourite-could-turn-farcical-20191029

Online wily ole dog

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« 2019-Oct-31, 07:01 AM Reply #40 »
They werenít on my short list but 2 big name scratchings overnight

Marmelo & Ispolini


For 2ky listeners, Kurt wonít be happy 😃

Offline nemisis

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« 2019-Oct-31, 08:02 AM Reply #41 »
The bone scanning equipment that brought about these scratchings is interesting.......can only be a good thing.

Racing is under such scrutiny that the last thing they need is a catastrophic breakdown like last year.

They need to enforce the new track policy.........'tracks must be prepared with give'......because that can only be good for horses.

A couple of very scratchy finishers from The Bendigo Cup yesterday should serve as a reminder as if they need to be reminded about hard ground.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2019-Oct-31, 08:11 AM Reply #42 »
I agree nem but the problem arises where these idiots who look after the tracks canít even water them properly

Itís almost 2020 and if I hear one more curator complaining about wind affecting the watering Iíll take a Fcking shot gun to them🤪

Offline Dave

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« 2019-Oct-31, 02:48 PM Reply #43 »
Gee I hope Pete doesn't read this but the glaring aspect of this whole sage of Scratching horses from the Cup after the CT scans smacks of Hypocrisy of the highest Order! I agree with what they are doing, just not why they are doing it!
They are arguing that they must look after the horses, especially after recent bad publicity......well why just look after Melbourne Cup horses?......It hasn't got anything to do with Animal rights.....it is all about publicity, by doing it with Melbourne Cup horses they get more positive publicity than they would in a Wangaratta Maiden on the same day.......and if a Horse breaks down in the Melbourne Cup a lot more bad publicity than the same thing happening in the Wangaratta maiden........so it is ALL(110%) about self interest and zero(0%) about Horse Welfare, isn't it??

Offline napes

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« 2019-Oct-31, 02:58 PM Reply #44 »
Spot on. More knee jerk reaction to the lefty whingers.

Offline nemisis

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« 2019-Oct-31, 04:14 PM Reply #45 »

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Oct-31, 04:29 PM Reply #46 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRi5Y34xrjE

This mob will never stop.

I see they are claiming that Taylor Swift is boycotting the Melbourne Cup - which is a different story to the one we are being fed by Swift's publicity team and Amanda Elliott.

Someone is telling fibs.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2019-Oct-31, 06:18 PM Reply #47 »
Marmelo's trainer considering an appeal against the stewards decision to scratch the horse based on CT scans which he claims have been cleared by UK racing vet with more experience than those in OZ.......another interesting and important point is why only scan the visitors apparently RV has no plans to require all local horses to be scanned before the Cup....hardly a level playing field.

https://www.racing.com/news/2019-10-30/news-morrison-appalled-by-cup-decision


Giddy Up :beer:

Offline Wenona

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« 2019-Oct-31, 07:59 PM Reply #48 »
Media reports suggested they were scanned because they were showing signs of soreness at the time. Is that not correct?

Offline Wenona

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« 2019-Oct-31, 08:03 PM Reply #49 »
Having done an initial analysis of the possible field - I feel my major players will come from :

True Self
Constantimople
Raymond Tusk
Mustajeer
Mirage Dancer
Mer De Glace

I have backed True Self ($75), Raymond Tusk ($21) and Mirage Dancer ($44) with True Self being a massive result.
« Last Edit: 2019-Oct-31, 08:08 PM by Wenona »


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