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2019 MELBOURNE CUP - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: 2019 MELBOURNE CUP  (Read 4359 times)

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Offline wily ole dog

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« 2019-Nov-04, 08:01 AM Reply #75 »

1  12  14  21 22  24

Thanks peg, i will box these up🤗
« Last Edit: 2019-Nov-04, 08:03 AM by wily ole dog »

Offline nemisis

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« 2019-Nov-05, 06:30 AM Reply #76 »
I will always remain surprised when ratings are done on a race before the track surface has been declared.

For mine a soft 6 track has a Galileo type's name written all over it......stamina is going to be required.

I've counted only 7 horse in the race that don't carry the Sadler's Wells bloodlines so good luck.

Watched a few overseas races yesterday and I'll have something small on Southern France and Il Paradiso.

The galloping action of Finche is worth a comment.......looks like he can keep it going all day.

The question there is ...will a full 12 months of the Waller 'treatment' find the extra 4 lengths required?
Plenty of punters seem to think it will and I can understand why.

Offline nemisis

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« 2019-Nov-05, 03:54 PM Reply #77 »
Clicked over to channel 10 while waiting for the protest result.

Francesca Cumani was assuring viewers that the good thing was all horses had pulled up well or words to that effect.

It was pretty clear there  was a horse out the back, not looking so good.

Rostropovich is now at the Werribee Equine centre with a suspected cracked pelvis.

It's a difficult time for racing for sure but let's not pretend.

Offline pegasyber

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« 2019-Nov-05, 04:02 PM Reply #78 »
Quote
VF140817 MC70511F * RACE NAME ID* [ MC70511F  2019.  MELBOURNE CUP,,,,,,,,,,, 3200 mtrs]. RESULT  [    23  3  12  20   But Protest lodged  ] F4 Pays $.
 * * * *  * * * * * * * * *  *  * * * *         :bash: Winning Post looking from the Flat.
VF140817 MC50611F * LOW LRAC SPRICE [  1 12  14  21 22  19  24    ]  Order *

  Integrity Rating of the Event 25% at best.

  Protest by fourth against second upheld and new placings RESULT  [   23  12  20  3  ] F4 Pays $ 68,721.
 What a Shower!!.  Well I did not bet so did not even lose $6.00.
 
« Last Edit: 2019-Nov-07, 08:14 AM by pegasyber »

Online Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-05, 04:47 PM Reply #79 »

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« 2019-Nov-06, 09:46 AM Reply #80 »
THE POSITIVES & NEGATIVES OF A MEMORABLE MELBOURNE CUP

IT was the fairytale finish that Australian punters and racing followers prayed for when Vow and Declare won the Melbourne Cup but the Danny O’Brien-trained stayer, owned by a group of battlers from Queensland was lucky to win the race that stops a nation.

A farcically slow paced aided by a brilliant Craig Williams ride destroyed the prospects of many and boosted the chances of Vow and Declare. Add to that interference near the finish cost the international Il Paradiso an almost certain victory.

The bravest of the beaten brigade was Surprise Baby who defied the farcical pace, a pretty ordinary ride from a bad barrier and a lack of cover from 800m out to come from last and finish the unluckiest of fifths.

THE POSITIVES of the 2019 MELBOURNE CUP:

A syndicate of everyday Queenslanders shared in the ownership of Vow & Declare the first Melbourne Cup win by an Australian-bred horse in a decade.
VOW & DECLARE struck an increasingly rare blow for the locals against a marauding band on international invaders.
CRAIG WILLIAMS shed his Melbourne Cup demons at his 15th ride in the big race – crossing from a wide alley and enjoying a gun run – predicting to his wife Larysa that he would win straight after the Caulfield Cup.
DANNY O’BRIEN added the Melbourne Cup to previous wins in the Cox Plate and Caulfield Cup but most of all completed the rebuilding of his training career after the infamous cobalt case that threatened to sink him.
STEWARDS added a theatrical touch to the finish upholding their own protest relegating MASTER OF REALITY to fourth and elevating PRINCE OF ARRAN & IL PARADISO to second and third respectively.
MATT HILL has again been praised for his superb call of the CUP which produced a very tricky finish. He is destined to be one of the great race broadcasters.
THE NETWORK 10 coverage, especially the commentary of FRANSECA CUMANI & form analyst DAVID GATELY was first class. Just when we thought we had got rid of that pesky JASON RICHARDSON with SEVEN losing telecast rights he just jumps back aboard the racing.com coverage in his ridiculous pork-pie hat with his giggly, annoying, ill-informed commentary that drives most punters to the mute button.
ONE punter has gone from winning zero as the horses crossed the line to a payout of almost $800,000 after stewards upheld the Cup protest. The punter placed a $10 straight first four with Sportsbet, requiring Vow And Declare to win, Prince Of Arran to run second, Il Paradiso to run third and Master Of Reality to run fourth. Guess he’s lucky the corporate didn’t find some tricky clause not to pay him.
THE NEGATIVES:

A FARCICALLY slow pace (adds some merit to the Poms putting pacemakers in these big races) that crushed the chances of several fancies & aided the on-pacers with even O’BRIEN & WILLIAMS admitting it helped VOW & DECLARE win.
THE CUP nightmare continued for international superstar jockey FRANKIE DETTORI who copped a nine-meeting suspension (should it have been much longer) for costing another visitor IL PARDISO an almost certain win in the big race. It was the second time in five years that Lloyd Williams’ love child has been suspended in the Cup. He couldn’t care less because he knows he will just get a tap on the wrist.
PRINCE OF ARRAN was a brave Cup placegetter for the second successive year and trainer Charlie Fellowes has declared he hopes to make it third time lucky in 2020. Jockey Michael Walker, fined $10,000 for excessive use of the whip, tossed his toys (saddle) out of the cot in a little tantrum in the jockeys’ room after the race.
THE theory that you need big race jockeys for big races (not necessarily to replace an accomplished woman rider) was proven yet again when Jordan Childs, with all due respects, was out of his class on SURPRISE BABY which arguably should have gone close to winning. Despite the slow speed which didn’t suit the local hope, Childs elected to drag her back to last from a horror draw rather than look for some cover midfield. He then took off from the 800m mark and blamed nothing to take him into the race for his defeat. SURPRISE BABY came from last on the turn to finish an eye-catching fifth. It was an enormous run.
FINCHE (7th) dashed the hopes of champion trainer CHRIS WALLER’S Maiden Cup win. He will live to fight another day and was humble in defeat but one could argue that FINCHE once again didn’t run out the 3200m. One cynic sent an email suggesting: ‘The best chance of Chris winning the Melbourne Cup is if they move it to Sydney’.
DAMIEN LANE described the run of Caulfield Cup winner MER DE GLACE, which finished sixth, as massive adding that the slow tempo had not helped.
LAST year’s winner CROSS COUNTER ran 8th after being slowly away.
JOAO MOREIRA, who flew in from Hong Kong to ride the highly fancied CONSTANTINOPLE said the horse was most disappointing.
JOCKEYS John Allen and Damien Oliver on DOWNDRAFT & MUSTAJEER which finished near the tail of the field blamed the farcically slow pace but neither had much to offer at the finish.
ROSTROPROVICH sadly broke a pelvis and was eased down in the straight but TEAM HAYES say the horse may race again after positive reports from the veterinary hospital.
RACING Victoria stewards adjourned an inquiry into alleged race day treatment on Cup day. They ordered the withdrawal of the Richard Laming-trained JAMAICAN RAIN after the mare was found to be sore in a knee during a race morning stable inspection. But it was not all the Compliance Assurance Team (CAT) allegedly found. An inquiry was also opened into a contravention of race day treatment of the mare.
THE crowd at FLEMINGTON – on a day when the weather gods were kind – was just above 81,400 – the lowest since 1993. Racegoers had to run the gauntlet with a cauldron of animal activist protesters and signage.
THERE were six arrests at Flemington (probably more at tracks outside Melbourne like Eagle Farm where they traditional carry on like morons on these big days) – four for drunkenness and one each for drug possession and an outstanding warrant.
VICTORIA and Australian Federal Police are also investigating a drone which was flown into unauthorized airspace and seized.
THE ride-sharing service Uber has crashed, causing more drama for racegoers trying to find their way home. Many had to do battle with the ferals on the trains. 
Letsgohorseracing report..............www.letsgohorseracing.com

Giddy Up :beer:


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Nov-06, 01:03 PM Reply #81 »
THE crowd at FLEMINGTON – on a day when the weather gods were kind – was just above 81,400

They kept banging on about 100,000 people - even the jockey interviewing Craig Williams said to him "there are 100,000 people back there waiting to cheer you" (or very similar words) as he was going back to scale.

So there was nowhere near 100,000 people?

I thought they got 100k every year - that is the impression you get reading the media.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Nov-06, 01:15 PM Reply #82 »
This article by Patrick Smith in yesterday's Oz got a lot of nasty comments directed at Pat:

Melbourne Cup 2019: Beyond the suits and suites is a sport that terrorises its stars

It is the dizziest time of the year, that last glass of bubbling hope can see you go from tippled to toppled. Rituals that have been 158 cups in the making demand jockey and galloper get back on the crystal even if it is only to topple back down.

An already bruised sport is falling from public interest and it can no longer presume its place in Australian culture will be or even is revered.

The most deleterious day in sport is also the most disingenuous. Because the Melbourne Cup is the day of the big lie. It is a tradition or curse more than a century old.

The sport is a glorious one and the Cup, run over 3200 metres, leaves the strongest and fittest horses sucking for oxygen. The final clawing over the last few metres must have the horses feeling they have used their God-given share and more. Melbourne Cups are not won without limitless courage. For lesser or underprepared competitors, it can be a death march.

Everything else about Melbourne Cup Day is a fantasy. Clobber worth more than a family car. Enough grog to turn the track to a heavy 10. Taylor Swift is coming but the singer is gone before she comes. The Cup is worth $8 million and about that much again short of being the richest race in the country.

The controversy about the treatment of racehorses has made graphic news this spring. The scenes from a Queensland abattoir have revolted the nation. Retired, broken down or just slow horses are slaughtered heartily. No dignity or respect afforded the horses here. No dignity or respect, either, deserved for the humans who lunge at the panicked horses with poles or batter them with pieces of wood. Cheering them to their death.

Racing officials suddenly find a couple of lengths; prepared to take the neatest of gaps and treat the weight of the news of the cruel death of horses with grim looks and eyebrows that work overtime.

Last week Racing Victoria, which in its defence had been working on a proposal to improve both the image of the sport and the health of the horse, said it planned to spend $25m on a scheme to improve the welfare of Victorian thoroughbreds.

It is a plan of many parts: a statewide rehoming program; post-racing career options: statewide foster program; an advanced tracking system; an equine welfare taskforce; humane euthanasia, and responsible breeding. No mention of the bleeding obvious.

RV chairman Brian Kruger likes his board’s plan.

“Victoria’s vision is to be a leader in equine welfare practices. Whilst the industry has achieved many great outcomes over recent years and has a clear pathway for the future, it is clear we need to step up and do more,” Kruger said.

But this was the critical point. “The horses are the stars of our sport and no one will argue that they must be treated as such.”

Here is the shameful hypocrisy, worthy of an Australian politician. The horses are the stars of the show? Fantasy. The world stood about more than a decade ago when Australian jockeys went on strike so they could be allowed to whip their horses more often after strict whip rules were introduced. It was argued jockeys needed the whips for control. Good safety measure. Just don’t smack the horses for an extra quid or two. Then we found out jockeys could not count when the rules limited the number of strikes in the final 100 metres. Next the bastards would ask them to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Australian racing sophisticated? No wonder abattoirs cared little for the horses if the nation’s officials allowed them to be crashed time and again by a whip.

No, our racing has no heart. Officials allow horses to be whipped five times before the final 100 metres and at the jockey’s discretion after that. Let’s say that’s the possibility of 15 strikes a horse after the 100m post.

So what effect does that have on the Melbourne Cup field? Well, let’s agree on a kind figure that, combined, the horses in the Cup may be hit 24x15 times. That’s 360 whacks between the 100m and the finish. Add the five before the 100 and we have another 120 lashes. Add that to the 360 in the final 100 and there is the potential for the field in today’s Cup to be hit some 480 times.

Accept some horses will not be in contention so will be spared the thrashing whip, but accept too that since prizemoney goes down to 12th spot there will still be a whole lot of whipping going on. That’s how Australian racing treats its “stars”. How absurd.

It is simply impossible for the racing industry to convince the public that it cares dearly for its “stars” if they are allowed to be beaten by the whip with the ferocity of jockeys chasing big money.

And the argument that the whip doesn’t hurt is rendered useless, not just by weight of scientific evidence, but by the urgency of jockeys to strike the horse. Hitting horses is not encouragement. It is a threatening demand.

Australian racing will never be as professional and sophisticated as it pretended to be this spring. Not until it operates as one body. Shouldn’t be hard to find one.


https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/horse-racing/beyond-the-suits-and-suites-is-a-sport-that-terrorises-its-stars/

Online Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-06, 04:28 PM Reply #83 »
THE crowd at FLEMINGTON – on a day when the weather gods were kind – was just above 81,400

They kept banging on about 100,000 people - even the jockey interviewing Craig Williams said to him "there are 100,000 people back there waiting to cheer you" (or very similar words) as he was going back to scale.

So there was nowhere near 100,000 people?

I thought they got 100k every year - that is the impression you get reading the media.

I agree with you PP as I expected 100k too. Then again Randwick on Tuesday was only a few 1000 short of equaling the hyped up Golden Eagle crowd at Rosehill.

I just don’t know if the younger generation are going to the races as much as before as most middle aged people prefer to watch at home with their families and friends in Melbourne. The tourists though love it.




Offline Dave

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« 2019-Nov-12, 04:25 PM Reply #84 »
The huge mistake they made  with the Melbourne Cup is.....they turned it into just another Horse race.....it is a better horse race but as Horse racing only appeals to a small minority that is getting smaller by the day....another Horse race to replace an Australian Icon was not the way to go.......The Melbourne Cup was uniquely Australian, it was more than a Horse race it was AUSTRALIAN to the core and it appealed to 99% of Australians, just like the Aussie Barb B Que, we never threw a "Shrimp" on the Barbie, did we??.....but I digress back to the Cup, it has lost it's iconic status, it's not an icon, not any more, it doesn't stop the nation any more.....now it is a horse race......nothing against over seas horses or connections, let them come out here for a new race or any other race but keep the Cup for Aussies still with great Prizemoney......it is Like asking the Catholic Church to put a price on the Vatican.....The Cup has an Australian Soul, if we had any morals we wouldn't sell our soul, would we?

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Nov-13, 10:37 AM Reply #85 »
The huge mistake they made  with the Melbourne Cup is.....they turned it into just another Horse race.....it is a better horse race but as Horse racing only appeals to a small minority that is getting smaller by the day....another Horse race to replace an Australian Icon was not the way to go.......The Melbourne Cup was uniquely Australian, it was more than a Horse race it was AUSTRALIAN to the core and it appealed to 99% of Australians, just like the Aussie Barb B Que, we never threw a "Shrimp" on the Barbie, did we??.....but I digress back to the Cup, it has lost it's iconic status, it's not an icon, not any more, it doesn't stop the nation any more.....now it is a horse race......nothing against over seas horses or connections, let them come out here for a new race or any other race but keep the Cup for Aussies still with great Prizemoney......it is Like asking the Catholic Church to put a price on the Vatican.....The Cup has an Australian Soul, if we had any morals we wouldn't sell our soul, would we?

I agree with that Dave.

However the other possibility that occurs to me is that maybe we are getting older and the race loses that magic as the years roll on?

Not sure.

But there was something about this year that was missing  :chin:

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-Nov-13, 10:44 AM Reply #86 »
2019 was the best Cup since 1988 which was the best since 1973 which was the best since 1964 which was the best since 1961 which was the best since 1959.

 :no1: :no1: :no1: :no1: :no1: :no1:
« Last Edit: 2019-Nov-13, 10:48 AM by JWesleyHarding »

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« 2019-Nov-13, 06:02 PM Reply #87 »
I agree with that Dave.

However the other possibility that occurs to me is that maybe we are getting older and the race loses that magic as the years roll on?

Not sure.

But there was something about this year that was missing  :chin:

I agree PP. Olympics is another big example of reduced interest.

Wall to wall racing and sports has made us also desensitised too as we now can see things all the time and on demand too.

I used to get excited about big games and races, now it is vastly less. A lot more entertainment options now too for the younger generation too.

In 10 years time, most sports will have less and less live crowds too. I doubt in our lifetime will we ever see a packed race crowd more than a couple of times a year in Sydney or Melbourne.

Offline Dave

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« 2019-Nov-19, 01:43 PM Reply #88 »
People are losing interest in racing.....there is no doubt about that....and that was my point!!!!!!
It doesn't matter how good a race the Melbourne Cup is, you could have the best horses from around the globe all line up....it would still be just a horse race
You could invite all the best  horses from around the world and put them in a different race and it would not have the same interest as the Melbourne Cup full of Aussie horse, Aussie owners/Trainers/Jockeys etc but most importantly Aussie dreams! (by the way I am not against Aussies buying stayers from over seas, it ain't the horses that are the problem)
Kill the Dream and you kill the interest and that is what they have done
The Melbourne Cup was far more than that, it was the race that stops a nation, It was an ICON not just a race....it is no longer an Icon and the race doesn't matter!
But racing in general has gone that way and that is why the public have lost interest, in England etc racing was the sport of Kings but in Australia it was a sport Battlers could compete in........not any more.....there are no stories of how a Vic Rail or a Joe Janiak beat the odds, they were about 20 years apart and it has been a long time since Take Over Target raced....... but in days gone by they happened every week, people could relate to battlers.....that is why racing was on the back pages of every paper, it was what people wanted to read about, they don't care if Godolphin win another Group One, that ain't news!
Do what they want with other races but they should have left the Melbourne Cup an Icon for Aussies!

Offline fours

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« 2019-Nov-19, 08:34 PM Reply #89 »
Dave,

Pretty sure that Surprise Baby was a cheapy.

Possibly best run on we've seen for some time given the slow pace as well.

Fours

Offline Dave

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« 2019-Nov-20, 08:37 PM Reply #90 »
fours, Surprise Baby is the exception, not the rule, she was outstanding and as I said I don't really care where a horse comes from, it isn't just about the horses, it is about the dream and Horses don't grow up hoping and dreaming they can win a Melbourne Cup,
It is an Aussie Icon.....would the Italians sell the Vatican if they were offered enough Money?
Would Egypt sell the Pyramids?? Australia just closed Ayers Rock(Uluru) to the Public cos it is an ICON not just a piece of Real Estate
Once Australians give up the dream all is lost as far as being an Icon is concerned.....it isn't just Owners, it is more Trainers and Jockeys, it is their life long wish to win a Melbourne Cup......now only a few of the Millionaire Jockeys have a chance to chase rides from overseas stables
If it was a True Melbourne Cup there is little doubt Surprise Baby wins, by true Melbourne Cup I mean a True handicap, true Handicaps are nearly always solidly run, Lightweights try to make the good horses carry their weight, which can make it better for the good horses as Luck plays a much smaller role in Victory, Handicaps are significantly fairer despite large fields, they don't pack up so much
As I was saying Surprise Baby is an exception to the rule, the last one similar was Takeover Target and that was about 15 years and a million horses ago and 20 years before Takeover Target for Vo Rogue,
Like punters who think Gelding Improves all Horses based on a couple of horses in the last 50 years who improved......they are exceptions you can't make them the rule......When in that period there have probably been in excess of a Million Gelding operations with Zero Improvement......no scientific experiment would be accepted on that kind of anecdotal data and yet in Horse racing Punters buy it.....is it any wonder that they get away with selling the Melbourne Cup??(The very soul of Horse racing)


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