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Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Mar-14, 05:27 PM Reply #25 »
Alligator Blood (10th): "He probably looked disappointing, but he never settled in the run. When they came to him he didn't offer anything which is very unlike him. He pulled up a little bit short in his near front. Hopefully he pulls up alright." - Ryan Maloney

Racing Victoria vets then went over the Queenslander sometime later but announced after the last race that no abnormalities could be found in Alligator Blood.


I wouldn't have the audacity to come on here and say he shouldn't have run today after the event - I posted that he shouldn't have run in The Australian Guineas because of the length of time he'd been up and how wrong was that.

But 3 year olds can look like world beaters when beating their age peers at set weights. And The Australian Guineas is not one of the stronger 3yo Group 1s, and the Magic Millions is restricted to horses sold at their sales.

It was a significantly more difficult assignment today when meeting the older horses.

Offline sobig

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« 2020-Mar-14, 06:33 PM Reply #26 »
That is true PP but the second horse is a 3yo

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2020-Mar-18, 04:40 PM Reply #27 »
Oh dear!!

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Mar-18, 04:41 PM Reply #28 »
Alligator Blood returns irregularity to prohibited substance

Ben Dorries
Article Author
Ben Dorries
5:02PM18 March 2020

Alligator Blood - one of Australia's headline horses - has returned an irregularity to a prohibited substance after the preliminary analysis of a sample taken after one of his biggest wins.

The prohibited substance was altrenogest, which is known commercially as Regumate, which has in the past been commonly used to control the reproductive cycle of mares but it is banned in colts and geldings.

However in Victoria and Queensland, trainers have been warned off even using altrenogest on fillies and mares because it contains detectable levels of both trendione and trenbolone (a banned steroid).

Gelding Alligator Blood allegedly returned the irregular test after one of the biggest wins of his career, in the $2m Gold Coast Magic Millions Guineas in January.

It was the day where Alligator Blood was on a float for four hours on the way to the Gold Coast after being one of several horses stuck on Queensland's M1 motorway after a fuel tanker rollover.

Queensland Racing Integrity Commissioner Ross Barnett told Racenet that, regardless about the debate of the use of altrenogest on fillies and mares, the use of the substance on colts and geldings had always been banned.

A statement released by QRIC read: 

"Sunshine Coast Trainer David Vandyke has today been informed that after preliminary analysis, a post-race sample taken from thoroughbred gelding Alligator Blood after it won the Magic Millions Three Year Old Guineas at the Gold Coast on 11 January 2020, has shown an irregularity to the prohibited substance altrenogest.

"Queensland Racing Integrity Commission (QRIC) Stewards informed Mr Vandyke that the sample has been sent for confirmatory testing at an interstate laboratory."

Racenet contacted Vandyke for comment on the matter and he sent through a pre-prepared statement which read:

"I was informed today that Alligator Blood has returned an irregularity to altrenogest after his win on 11 January at the Gold Coast," Vandyke said.

"There is a B sample under review.

"Altrenogest is a drug that has never been used to my knowledge on Alligator Blood or any male horse in our stable.

"It is used in our stable under the brand name Ovumate and is given to some female horses under our care with accurate records kep surrounding administration.

"Those records have been given to QRIC.

"We are in the process of reviewing our security and stable management.

"There will be no further comment as we await the result of the B sample."

Alligator Blood has won 10 from 12 races with his only defeats being a narrow runner-up finish in last year's Group I Caulfield Guineas and when finishing 10th as the $2.80 favourite in the All-Star Mile last Saturday.

Earlier this autumn, he won his first Melbourne race in an epic battle against Kiwi Catalyst down the straight in the CS Hayes Stakes before claiming his first Group I win in the Australian Guineas.

Vandyke and owner Allan Endresz have taken the public along for the ride with their horse - doing countless media promotions and interviews in the lead-up to the All-Star Mile.

Endresz, whose wife Joy is dying of cancer, had threatened to scratch Alligator Blood from the All-Star Mile last Friday when officials enforced a fan and owner lockout at Caulfield due to coronavirus concerns.

But the Melbourne Racing Club organised a nearby function room for the Alligator Blood team to watch the All-Star Mile and the threat to scratch the star galloper was withdrawn.

Alligator Blood is now spelling with connections planning to target a rich payday in the Sydney spring in the $15m The Everest and the $7.5m Golden Eagle.

* Comments have been turned off on this story as the matter is ongoing and before stewards *
Ben Dorries
ENDS

Giddy Up :beer:


Online wily ole dog

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« 2020-Mar-18, 04:43 PM Reply #29 »
Horrible news

Offline ianb

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« 2020-Mar-18, 05:42 PM Reply #30 »
From what David Vandyke has said, it is clear that there are some fillies and mares in Queensland who are being given regumate/ovumate.  I think the punter should be made aware of which fillies or mares have been given it. I hope it is not something like half the female population. If it is, it  is obviously a major rort.

I have been punting, since the rule was introduced a year and a half ago, with the assumption that female horses from NSW are permitted to use the drug and Qld & Victoria weren't.

Obviously a false assumption.

The Qld  stewards should make a list of the fillies/mares who have been administered Regumate/ovumate and publish it before each meeting.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Mar-18, 05:58 PM Reply #31 »
Q: Does anyone know the rationale behind why it is banned in male horses? i.e. is it performance enhancing?


If the B Sample is positive AND they take the MM off him (not entirely sure that would happen), then the Greg Hickman trained Eleven Eleven would become the winner.

Not seen since the MM but nommed for the Arrowfield - probably off to Brisbane this winter I'd say.

Offline pwa54

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« 2020-Mar-18, 06:30 PM Reply #32 »
Apparently it's used to calm down stallions.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Mar-18, 08:18 PM Reply #33 »
Apparently it's used to calm down stallions.

Thanks mate.

Calms them down by making them more "female"???

Doesn't sound performance enhancing.

Interesting thread on Thoroughbred Village from 2011 talking about the drug and many conflicting opinions.

http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/regumate-altrenogest_topic41573_page2.html

This comment was one that took my interest but not much expansion and no-one commented on it.

The problem with this drug is not performance enhancing? Is that the cocktails of drugs can become masking agents for more sinister happenings.

The poor grammar makes it hard to understand what he is actually saying.

Offline Gintara

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« 2020-Mar-18, 09:16 PM Reply #34 »
If anyone's on Twitter it's worthwhile looking up #alligatorblood & some of the posts from one of it's part owners Allan Endresz

Story here in the AFR about him --> https://www.afr.com/world/paradise-papers-the-cook-islands-millionaire-who-never-has-to-pay-his-debts-20180322-h0xuln

Online wily ole dog

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« 2020-Mar-18, 09:31 PM Reply #35 »
Link doesn’t show the full article mate

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2020-Mar-19, 08:29 AM Reply #36 »
Thanks mate.

Calms them down by making them more "female"???

Doesn't sound performance enhancing.

Interesting thread on Thoroughbred Village from 2011 talking about the drug and many conflicting opinions.

http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/regumate-altrenogest_topic41573_page2.html

This comment was one that took my interest but not much expansion and no-one commented on it.

The problem with this drug is not performance enhancing? Is that the cocktails of drugs can become masking agents for more sinister happenings.

The poor grammar makes it hard to understand what he is actually saying.

Nothing much wrong with the grammar other than an inappropriate question mark and a missing 'It" to commence the next sentence.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Mar-19, 02:40 PM Reply #37 »
    Racenet News

HORSES
Alligator Blood owner - 'they got to my horse like they got to Phar Lap'
Alligator Blood owner - 'they got to my horse like they got to Phar Lap'
Alligator Blood owner Allan Endresz (centre) Photo: News Limited.
Ben Dorries
Article Author
Ben Dorries
12:03PM19 March 2020
5 Comments

Alligator Blood's owner Allan Endresz has made the sensational claim that racing crooks or someone with an axe to grind against him "got" to his star horse "like they got to Phar Lap."

Endresz spoke to Racenet on Thursday morning and claimed the irregularity to Altrenogest following Alligator Blood's $2 million Magic Millions Guineas victory was caused by someone with malicious intent.

He feels Alligator Blood was not nobbled in the sense of trying to cause harm to the horse - but rather by those who wanted him not to race on the rich Magic Millions day where huge prizemoney was on offer and big money was bet.

Alligator Blood was stuck on a float for four hours in traffic carnage on a Queensland motorway yet still managed to win the Magic Millions Guineas by two lengths in a dominant performance.

But Endresz spoke of nobbling attempts on Phar Lap, how crooks tried to shoot Phar Lap and the famous horse's suspicious death in 1932 in the same terms as his theories about what happened to Alligator Blood.

During the 1930 Melbourne spring carnival, Phar Lap won four races in seven days – and this was after he survived an assassination attempt, a gunshot fired from a nearby motor car.

Endresz now claims Altrenogest - a substance normally given to fillies and mares - was probably used as wrongdoers wanted Alligator Blood not to race but also not to come to serious harm.

"I used the Phar Lap expression because of this – I am not comparing Alligator Blood with Phar Lap, Phar Lap is the greatest icon in Australia for me, period," Endresz told Racenet.

"I am comparing it on the basis of the circumstances surrounding everything to do with Phar Lap, he came out of an era of 1930 when there was despair and depression.

"Ironically now Alligator Blood is smack bang in the middle of something now that could be worse than that.

"Someone has done something to Alligator Blood because they didn’t want him to race.

"At the end of the day Phar Lap died in suspicious circumstances and they got to Big Philou.

"Absolutely, someone has now got to Alligator Blood like they got to Phar Lap and that is my strong belief."

Endresz has full faith in trainer David Vandyke and said there was little chance Alligator Blood could have been the inadvertent victim of stable contamination with the mares drug.

"There is only two logical outcomes – one is contamination but if you think about that I know that the stable area and there is not a mare anywhere near where Alligator Blood is," Endresz said.

"The other possibility is someone has given him the Ovumate.

"That could be a disgruntled employee. It could be someone that has an axe to grind with me – there is quite a few of them around.

"Or it could be that money is now the new god in terms of betting and risks, there is a lot of money that Alligator Blood represents in the marketplace.

"You have a situation where Ovumate is used mainly for mares on heat, but it's an easily admissible drug and you can spray it on the wire mesh of the horse’s float and they can lick it off.

"You can shoot it into a bin for their feed or you could put it on your hands and in the mouth of the horse as you pat the horse.

"It's not about performance-enhancing the horse on raceday, to me it seems to be about trying to get the horse disqualified now that’s the same outcome."

Endresz said there was a deal on the table for Alligator Blood to run in a slot in The Everest and he was hopeful that would not fall through.

However he revealed another interested slot holder had now distanced themselves following the drama.

"We are in sensitive negotiations with The Everest - but now we have one party already wanting to put on ice their offer in the Everest," Endresz said.

"The main party we have had an agreement on Friday and I'm waiting on contracts this week, I've heard nothing to the contrary that it won't happen but nothing surprises me so we will wait and see.

"Certainly the other party has put it on ice pending outcomes and what happens with this issue."

You can read how Racenet revealed the story of Alligator Blood's swab irregularity on Wednesday by clicking HERE

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/alligator-blood-owner--they-got-to-my-horse-like-they-got-to-phar-lap-20200319

ENDS

Hard to imagine anyone would hit the horse with Altrenogest so it would not harm the horse but show up in a post race swab with the results the horse would be disqualified......if it won the race ......the owner suspects an animal lover with a grudge against the owners or trainer....... reserve sample result still to come ...very strange case you would think stable security would be more than adequate...... the owner is upset and would  want to  understand how this came about .....QRIC investigation will surely follow .....it may have already started.



Giddy Up :beer: 

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Mar-19, 09:44 PM Reply #38 »
Nothing much wrong with the grammar other than an inappropriate question mark and a missing 'It" to commence the next sentence.

The problem with this drug is not performance enhancing? Is that the cocktails of drugs can become masking agents for more sinister happenings.

i) The first sentence becomes semantically nonsensical because he appears to be making a statement then adds a question mark at the end.

Is he meaning

"The problem with this drug is that it is not performance enhancing" - in which case he is missing 'that it is'. If that is what he meant to say then re-reading it, it doesn't make sense.

Why is there a "problem" with the drug if it is not performance enhancing? I don't understand. He appears to be saying that those that want to give their horses performance enhancing drugs should use something other than Regumate.

Who is this guy? Some modern day Laurie Connell?

Or does he mean something else?

ii) The second sentence is far worse than you are making out.

He starts with the words "Is that...". We usually start sentences with "Is that..." when we are asking a question e.g. "Is that the way to San Jose?" or "Is that not the way I should be doing things?"

He appears to be making a statement that by giving a horse a cocktail of drugs (which includes Regumate) it effectively becomes a masking agent for more sinister drugs.


If that is what he is saying (very badly) then my question to the forum is anyone aware of this methodology of using a cocktail of drugs, one of which is Regumate, to mask the usage of other drugs?

I notice I haven't got a reply which suggests that either the thread is not being read by the right people, or his statement is bullshit.

I'm no expert in chemistry or horse physiology, but in this day and age of molecular level testing of blood and urine samples you'd think it would be very strange logic to give a horse a cocktail of drugs, then give it a performance enhancing drug thinking that the former would mask the latter.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Mar-19, 09:52 PM Reply #39 »
Alligator blood is studied because alligators have been on the planet for far longer than most species

Crocodilians have existed on Earth for at least 37 million years. Over the course of their evolution, they have developed a very strong defence against infection. “They inflict wounds on each other from which they frequently recover without complications from infection despite the fact that the environments in which they live are less than sterile,” says Barney Bishop of George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia, co-author of the new study.

American alligators have an enviable innate immune system, the “primitive” first line of defence that is shared by all vertebrates. In 2008, chemists in Louisiana found that blood serum taken from the reptiles destroyed 23 strains of bacteria and depleted reserves of the HIV virus. The germ-killing molecules were identified as enzymes that break down a type of lipid.

Although their results have yet to lead to any new antibiotics, enzymes aren’t the only pathogen-busting molecules that alligators have up their sleeve. Bishop’s group has now identified and isolated peptides known as a CAMPs or cationic antimicrobial peptides.

www.newscientist.com/article/dn27059-germ-killing-molecules-identified-in-alligator-blood/

The term is also used in poker to refer to someone who can ride things our for a long time e.g. that guy has Alligator blood in him.

Online Shogun Lodge

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« 2020-Mar-20, 07:09 AM Reply #40 »
PP, you better lay off the forensic approach to grammar.
You got form, for misinterpretation.  :lol:  :beer:

Offline arthur

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« 2020-Mar-20, 07:48 AM Reply #41 »
"Doesn't sound performance enhancing."

If it makes stallions more tractable . . it sounds 'performance enhancing' to me

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2020-Mar-20, 08:46 AM Reply #42 »
Most of the gear available for horses are "performance enhancing" aren't they?

Blinkers. winkers, lugging bits, stallion chains, tongue ties...…………...

Offline arthur

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« 2020-Mar-20, 08:53 AM Reply #43 »
Link doesn’t show the full article mate

Try this link

https://www.afr.com/world/paradise-papers-the-cook-islands-millionaire-who-never-has-to-pay-his-debts-20180322-h0xuln

Doesn't work either . .

Just look up 'Allan E . . ' on google & you will find it
« Last Edit: 2020-Mar-20, 12:09 PM by arthur »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Mar-20, 11:42 AM Reply #44 »
Alligator’s blood probe in no hurry
NATHAN EXELBY
CM story 20 March

AN OUTCOME to the Alligator Blood altrenogest bombshell is not likely to be determined for months, if not years, as connections wait on the findings of a B sample taken from the gelding after he won the Magic Millions Guineas in January.

QRIC announced on Wednesday that an irregularity had been found in the A sample of Alligator’s blood to the banned substance altrenogest.

If the B sample is also irregular, it will lead to a stewards’ inquiry and the horse’s possible disqualification from the race, where he won $1,165,000.

If he is disqualified, the Greg Hickman-trained Eleven Eleven will be declared the winner.

Racing Queensland has not paid the winning percentage from the race and are required to withhold funds until all appeal avenues around the race result are exhausted, should that be the direction this case takes.

Alligator Blood’s outspoken part-owner Allan Endresz yesterday claimed the horse was “nobbled” and told Radio TAB he would challenge the rules of racing and fight in court any charges or penalties laid against the horse.

Before that, the B sample needs to be returned and, if positive, a stewards inquiry would need to be convened, with QRIC already having a backlog of cases involving altrenogest.

It is understood upwards of 10 trainers have altrenogest irregularities, which are still waiting to be determined.

However, the vast majority pertain to fillies and mares, where the Australian Trainers Association has lobbied strongly for its use to control the breeding cycle like it is permitted in New South Wales.


A case involving the gelding Bosendi, which had altrenogest detected in its system after a race at Ipswich last May, was determined by QRIC stewards in November.
Bosendi, first across the line, was disqualified and Murwillumbah trainer Angela Graham was fined $3000.


Trainer David Vandyke said on Wednesday altrenogest had never been used on Alligator Blood and that records of the product Ovumate, which he has used on female horses in the stable, have been provided to QRIC.

It is understood swabs taken from Alligator Blood following his win in last month’s C.S. Hayes Stakes have returned all clear. Results from the Australian Guineas have not been returned yet.
ENDS

https://qric.qld.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Angela_Graham_-_Stewards_Report.pdf

There's no record on the QRIC site of any Internal Review in this case.

https://twitter.com/EndreszAllan?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Giddy Up :beer:

« Last Edit: 2020-Mar-20, 11:54 AM by Arsenal »

Online wily ole dog

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« 2020-Mar-21, 07:21 AM Reply #45 »
When given to a stallion, how quickly does it act to calm him down
Is it slow release over days or is it like a voltaren or panadol?

Offline Villa

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« 2020-Mar-23, 08:39 PM Reply #46 »
I’m not sure if Regumate, Ovumate or Altrenogest are masking agents?. They are banned in all states in Australia (except NSW) due to the Anabolic Steroid that has now been found in it. It is mainly used to delay and control a mares menstrual cycle and hence make them easier to handle. It’s terrible stuff. If the smallest amount gets onto the skin of a female stable hand it can alter their period, It’s been reported that some females have had no menstrual cycle for up to 12months after coming into contact with it. The reason NSW never fell into line and banned its use like the rest of the country was because of WINX and her trainers use of it. We all know how many bums on seats she accounted for!. We also know her trainer religiously uses LASIX on his horses. Although not being illegal, it is commonly known as the best MASKING AGENT on the market, although, he claims it stops horses from bleeding. Does every single horse bleed in his stable???. There is proof that it can help a bleeder, but giving it to every single one of his horses after a final gallop???. The Americans swear by the stuff and we know how juiced up to the eyeballs those poor animals are. Anyway, the stuff that has been found in Alligator Blood is banned in QLD and should have never been in the stable. It can quiet MARES down. Some say it can quiet COLTS down?. The horse in question is a GELDING and hasn’t had any testosterone running through his veins in a long time. His trainer has form in this area going back to 1990 where he received 2 years for a positive, has copped fines of up to $12,000, and cost his owners $99,000 when Yankee Rose tested positive.
« Last Edit: 2020-Mar-23, 08:44 PM by Villa »

Online wily ole dog

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« 2020-Mar-23, 08:42 PM Reply #47 »
Agree with all of that villa but I will say 1990 was a hell of a long time ago

Offline Villa

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« 2020-Mar-23, 08:47 PM Reply #48 »
Yankee Rose was 2017

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Apr-14, 09:49 PM Reply #49 »
Endresz exploring legal loophole

Allan Endresz will attempt to exploit a legal loophole within the Australian Rules of Racing in a bid to see his star Alligator Blood keep the Magic Millions Guineas.

On Tuesday, QRIC revealed that the second swab sample taken from the star three-year-old after his win in the Magic Millions Guineas at the Gold Coast in January contained the prohibited substance altrenogest.

QRIC confirmed that trainer David Vandyke will now be the subject of a stewards inquiry and Alligator Blood is expected to be disqualified as the winner of the $2 million feature race under the Australian Rules of Racing.

Speaking on Racing.com’s After The Last, Endresz said his legal team had found a contradiction in the wording of two separate rules – AR214 and AR240 - and he would seek to pursue the matter further.

AR214 refers to the result of the race upon declaration of correct weight, while AR240 makes reference to the event of a horse returning a positive swab to a prohibited substance.

“We’ve had a good look at it and we’re challenging that rule (AR240),” Endresz said.

“On the face of it (the rule), it would suggest an automatic disqualification.

“What hasn’t been looked at before, and I don’t mind alluding to this, if one goes to the conclusion of a race under AR214, a judge’s decision is final and there are only two exceptions to that which don’t include prohibited drugs.

“Now the way in which the rules have been drafted, there may or may not be a perceived loophole or incompetence in the way it was drafted.

“In simple terms, if one goes and says the horse is automatically disqualified well then that rule (AR240) is retrospectively having an impact on AR214 that simply says the judge’s decisions are final.

“You can’t have a retrospective law that takes away the rights of the horse and the owners which have had nothing to do with this debacle.

“We’ve lost enormously as a result of this, not just the money but the reputation of the horse and contracts with the TAB for The Everest.”

Endresz also doubled down on his earlier claim that Alligator Blood, who swabbed clear after his win in the Group 1 Australian Guineas at Flemington, could have been nobbled in the lead-up to the Magic Millions Guineas.


https://www.racing.com/news/2020-04-14/news-endresz-exploring-legal-loophole

I don't think he's going to endear himself to the authorities with some of those comments e.g. "incompetence".


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