Author Topic: Alligator Blood (Read 28294 times)

Jeunes · « 2020-Apr-15, 06:29 PM **Reply #50** »

Wasn’t the MM was the race where AB was stuck in a traffic jam for hours and races delayed for a hour?

Not implying anything but would any vet or any staff give a wrong medication or drink by mistake if the horse was agitated during the trip etc. If so would it be viewed as performance enhancing if given to calm a horse? I am just clutching at straws for the connection.

PoisonPen7 · « 2020-Apr-15, 08:02 PM **Reply #51** »

Quote from: Jeunes on 2020-Apr-15, 06:29 PM

Wasn’t the MM was the race where AB was stuck in a traffic jam for hours and races delayed for a hour?

Not implying anything but would any vet or any staff give a wrong medication or drink by mistake if the horse was agitated during the trip etc. If so would it be viewed as performance enhancing if given to calm a horse? I am just clutching at straws for the connection.

It could.

But you would expect corroboration from the vet.

In fact (I think) if a vet administers any substance to a racehorse there are protocols to be followed, records to be updated.

If you just say "OK" to any uncorroborated reason then you would open a whole Pandora's Box in regard to anyone charged in the future.

There is a precedent to a horse being allowed to keep a race after an abnormal sample.

Think it was one of Clarry Connor's Slipper winners. Tierce in 1991 perhaps? Lignocaine for a tooth?

Jeunes · « 2020-Apr-16, 01:21 AM **Reply #52** »

Quote from: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Apr-15, 08:02 PM

It could.

But you would expect corroboration from the vet.

In fact (I think) if a vet administers any substance to a racehorse there are protocols to be followed, records to be updated.

If you just say "OK" to any uncorroborated reason then you would open a whole Pandora's Box in regard to anyone charged in the future.

There is a precedent to a horse being allowed to keep a race after an abnormal sample.

Think it was one of Clarry Connor's Slipper winners. Tierce in 1991 perhaps? Lignocaine for a tooth?

I think you maybe right in regards to Tierce. He was a good horse. On a side note, have a look at some of the jockey names that rode in the Slipper that year. Not bad depth at all. A bit surprised not to see John Marshall in the names but I don’t think he got many rides out of the Cummings stables at times.

https://www.racenet.com.au/horse-racing-results/rosehill-gardens-19910323/golden-slipper-stks-race-4

Below is an article about some horses that tested positive and had group 1 races stripped from them.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/superracing/sense-at-last-on-drug-system-as-australian-racing-board-adjusts-screening-limits-described-as-out-of-date/news-story/70c3118f644e682a98429804daf29384

Arsenal · « 2020-Jul-23, 05:59 PM **Reply #53** »

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/alligator-blood-legal-team--it-s-a-landmark--case-for-the-rights-of-owners-20200722
Alligator Blood legal team - it's a 'landmark' case for the rights of owners

Alligator Blood's owner Allan Endresz (centre).
Article Author
Ben Dorries 11:12AM22 July 2020
A leading sports lawyer acting for Alligator Blood’s colourful owner says the looming stoush over the star horse’s prohibited substance irregularity is a landmark case for the rights of owners in racing.

Trainer David Vandyke will front a stewards’ inquiry in Brisbane on Thursday regarding the positive swab to traces of altrenogest following Alligator Blood’s thumping victory in the Gold Coast Magic Millions 3YO Guineas in January.

There is $1.16million at stake for owner Allan Endresz and his co-owners given the Queensland boom horse will be disqualified and stripped of prizemoney from its win should there be an adverse finding.

Queensland chief steward Peter Chadwick has banned the media from attending Thursday’s hearing and Endresz and his legal team also have no right to attend.

Sports lawyer Tim Fuller has been engaged by Endresz and, as has previously been flagged, one of the planks of their case is in relation to AR 240, which states a horse must be disqualified if it is found to have a prohibited substance in its system on race day.

Endresz’s legal team say that is an “extraordinary” rule as it does not take into account any factors such as potential inadvertent administration or a horse being nobbled by someone with an axe to grind.

However Fuller says the case will also shine a light on the rights of owners in racing – or the lack of them.

“An owner is a registered participant in the sport under the Australian Rules of Racing but unlike other participants they do not have any rights of review (before stewards) in a prohibited substance case like this where a horse could be disqualified,” Fuller said.

“Owners are bound by the rules of racing but they don’t have any recourse in a case like this – that is quite extraordinary.

“Based on that, what sort of means of review does an owner have – none?

“The owner (Endresz) doesn’t even have access to the certificate of analysis in relation to the result (of the Alligator Blood swab).

“The owner has no right of review or to be heard in racing in a case like this – but in the end owners are probably the ones who invest most in the sport in many ways.

“The problem with this rule is the owners are the ones who suffer financially.

"It calls into question the fairness of the rule and the rights of owners, absolutely."

It appears likely, if there is an adverse finding at the stewards’ inquiry on Thursday, the case will progress further where Endresz could launch a Supreme Court challenge to the rules of racing.

Fuller says racing's automatic disqualification rule for a prohibited substance charge doesn’t take other factors into account.

“There are always going to be situations in racing that are a little bit grey,” Fuller says.

“This rule used to be enforced under the discretion of the stewards and now that has been changed to a horse must be disqualified.

“That is completely unfair.

“A horse could potentially leave the race after winning .. and if somebody walked up and stuck something underneath the horse’s mouth and ultimately that horse then produced a sample positive to prohibited substance – in the end that horse must be disqualified.”

Horses such as trainer Chris Waller's Junoob in the 2014 Group I Metropolitan Handicap have been disqualified from race wins under the current rule.

Waller was fined $30,000 after he explained "human error" led to Junoob being treated with Frusemide, also known as Lasix which showed up in a post race swab.

Fuller said a leading Queen’s Counsel has been engaged and would provide advice about any potential legal action following Thursday’s stewards’ inquiry.

In January, Racenet reported how Alligator Blood did a Phar Lap as he required a police escort to get to the races late before winning one of the most dramatic renewals of the $2 million Gold Coast Magic Millions Guineas.

Article Author
Read all News by Ben Dorries
ENDS
I don't agree with the media ban nor that the owners aren't permitted to attend and be heard denial of natural justice.

No result reported so far ...it's hard to imagine it'll be a happy ending .....the comments by Mr Fuller if advanced at the hearing are hardly persuasive .....that's my opinion.

Still I've been wrong before and you never know although it does appear a cut and dried case.

STOP PRESS

Alligator Blood disqualified from Magic Millions win, Vandyke fined $20,000
Alligator Blood disqualified from Magic Millions win, Vandyke fined $20,000
Alligator Blood has been disqualified from the Magic Millions with runner-up Eleven Eleven declared the new winner. Photo: Getty Images.
Ben Dorries
Article Author
Ben Dorries
6:08PM23 July 2020

Alligator Blood has been stripped of his most lucrative win, in a finding from Queensland stewards which owner Allan Endresz says will now spark a Supreme Court challenge.

One of Australia's biggest-name horses has been disqualified from his thumping win in the $2m Gold Coast Magic Millions 3YO Guineas in January, with Greg Hickman-trained runner-up Eleven Eleven promoted to winner.

Alligator Blood's trainer David Vandyke was also fined $20,000 for presenting Alligator Blood to race with a prohibited substance, with traces of altrenogest found in a post-race sample.

The decision at a stewards' inquiry in Brisbane on Thursday, which was closed to the media, was a $1.16million dive in the fortunes of Alligator Blood's owners which include the colourful Endresz.

That was the first prizemoney from the Magic Millions win which has now been taken away from him due to a positive swab to traces of altrenogest on raceday.

It represents a bonanza for the connections of Eleven Eleven, not only are they the new winner but there was an $800,000 difference in prizemoney between first and second.

However the matter is far from finished after the day-long stewards hearing in Brisbane.

Endresz told Racenet on Thursday night he would initiate legal action in the Supreme Court, challenging the stewards decision.

He has previously flagged potential Supreme Court action would challenge the rules of racing in regards to the automatic disqualification rule, potentially opening up a can of worms in relation to past prohibited substance decisions and disqualifications from stewards.

"I will be going to the Supreme Court - there is no doubt about that," Endresz, who has previously claimed his high-profile horse must have been "got to" by someone with an axe to grind agianst him, said.

"In addition to what I have talked about previously there now also the issue of the (Queensland Racing Integrity Commission) swabbing policies, which we haven't even been provided with.

"We want to know the timing of the swabs, the gap in the timing, the level of security around the swabs taken on raceday."

Endresz said in terms of prizemoney from the Magic Millions, Alligator Blood's owners hadn't actually received a cent because the swabs hadn't cleared.

Vandyke has the option of the Queensland racing appeals system which is long and cumbersome, firstly involving an internal review process and then an appeal to the Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal.

As Queensland chief steward Peter Chadwick decided to close Thursday's hearing to media, the evidence heard by the stewards remained behind closed doors and is not able to be reported by Racenet.

QRIC released the following statement, shortly before 6pm on Thursday night:

"Sunshine Coast Trainer David Vandyke was found guilty of a breach of AR 240(2) as the licensed trainer of Alligator Blood he brought the gelding to race on 11 January 2020 when a post-race urine sample detected the prohibited substance altrenogest," the statement said.

"The Queensland Racing Integrity Commission (QRIC) Stewards today disqualified the gelding Alligator Blood from its win in the Magic Millions 3YO Guineas at the Gold Coast on 11 January this year.

"Stewards issued Mr Vandyke a fine of $20,000 and disqualified Alligator Blood from its win in the Gold Coast Magic Millions race.

"Mr Vandyke was informed of his rights to an Internal Review of the stewards decision."

Alligator Blood went on to be one of the stars of the Melbourne autumn carnival and a headline act with his Group I win in the $1million Australian Guineas.

On Wednesday, one of Endresz's high-powered legal team told Racenet of the looming legal fight and indicated it would be a landmark case for the rights of owners in racing.
Related Topics: Magic Millions 3Yo Guineas Magic Millions

Giddy Up

Peter Mair · « 2020-Jul-23, 06:55 PM **Reply #54** »

........... if one goes to Queensland .... one takes risks

PoisonPen7 · « 2020-Jul-24, 02:42 AM **Reply #55** »

Quote from: Peter Mair on 2020-Jul-23, 06:55 PM

........... if one goes to Queensland .... one takes risks

Thank you Confucius.

Endresz’s legal team say that is an “extraordinary” rule as it does not take into account any factors such as potential inadvertent administration or a horse being nobbled by someone with an axe to grind.

There was the case a few years back where Clarry Conner's Golden Slipper winner Tierce was found to have a prohibited substance in his system after winning the Slipper - Lignocaine inadvertently administered after some dental treatment pre-race.

He was allowed to keep the race.

So one could argue that it is not necessarily so that a horse is disqualified. This could have applied to AB but didn't. The operative word being could.

Arsenal · « 2020-Jul-27, 07:07 PM **Reply #56** »

Alligator Blood case: MM prizemoney could be withheld for an eternity
Alligator Blood case: MM prizemoney could be withheld for an eternity
Eleven Eleven is the new winner of the Gold Coast Magic Millions 3YO Guineas - but what about the prizemoney? Photo: News Limited.
Ben Dorries
Article Author
Ben Dorries
10:15AM27 July 2020

Greg Hickman-trained Eleven Eleven is the new winner of the rich Gold Coast Magic Millions 3YO Guineas but connections could be waiting an eternity to pocket an extra $800,000.

Original winner Alligator Blood was disqualified last week and the $1.16m first prizemoney is poised to go to original runner-up Eleven Eleven, an increase of $800,000 from Eleven Eleven's second-placed prizemoney of $360,000.

However there could be appeals against Alligator Blood's disqualification lodged under the rules of racing and owner Allan Endresz is also insisting he will take Supreme Court action to challenge the stewards' decision and racing rules.

A Racing Queensland spokesman confirmed to Racenet that under local rules, prizemoney can be withheld "while any action of law is pending."

"That applies to legal proceedings outside of the racing jurisdiction," the spokesman told Racenet.

Racing Queensland also has a separate statement on the matter on its website.

It reads: "Racing Queensland acknowledges the Queensland Racing Integrity Commission inquiry and decision in relation to Alligator Blood and the Magic Millions Guineas.

"It also recognises the right of appeal process available in relation to the decision.

"Accordingly, Racing Queensland will reserve the distribution of prizemoney until such time that the connections have elected whether to exercise their appeal rights, and any appeal process has been finalised.

"This aligns with Racing Queensland’s established practice of the withholding of payment of prizemoney pending swab clearance for races with prize money in excess of $75,000.

"Racing Queensland has not yet distributed any first place prizemoney for the Magic Millions Guineas."

After hearing Alligator Blood had been disqualified and Eleven Eleven was the new MM winner, Hickman told Channel Seven it felt like Christmas had arrived early.

"It’s good for the owners, it’s good for the stable, it’s good for everybody so it’s Christmas come early," Hickman said.

Given the complexities of the slow-moving legal system, it is anyone's guess when the Alligator Blood case will finally come to its conclusion.

But you can safely bet it won't be anytime soon.

Meanwhile, Queensland stewards on Saturday released a brief summary of their findings from the Alligator Blood stewards' hearing on Thursday which had been closed to the media.

Stewards found no evidence anyone connected with trainer David Vandyke's stable had deliberately administered altrenogest to Alligator Blood on the day of the Magic Millions.

"Mr Vandyke could not provide any explanation as to how the prohibited substance came to be present in the horse Alligator Blood and the
Stewards had no evidence that Mr Vandyke, his staff or any other person administered Altrenogest to Alligator Blood," the stewards' report read.

Vandyke was fined $20,000 but avoided suspension.

Stewards said they took into account Vandyke's "co-operation throughout the inquiry together with his frank and forthright evidence."

Godolphin's Exhilarates is the new Gold Coast Magic Millions 3YO Guineas runner-up while Peter and Paul Snowden's Hightail has been promoted to third.
Related Topics: Magic Millions 3Yo Guineas
Ben Dorries
Article Author

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/alligator-blood-case--mm--prizemoney-could-be-withheld-for-an-eternity-20200727

ENDS

https://qric.qld.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Stewards-Report-David-Vandyke.pdf

In determining penalty, the Stewards considered the circumstances of the breach, the mitigating factors surrounding the offence and the penalty precedents in relation to the offence. In regards to the circumstances of the offence, Mr Vandyke could not provide any explanation as to how the prohibited substance came to be present in the horse Alligator Blood and the Stewards had no evidence that Mr Vandyke, his staff or any other person administered Altrenogest to Alligator Blood.

Giddy Up

Arsenal · « 2020-Aug-27, 09:47 AM **Reply #57** »

Result of Alligator race is settled

NATHAN EXELBY

THE Queensland Racing Integrity Commission has told Racing Queensland no appeals have been lodged in relation to Alligator Blood’s disqualification from the Magic Millions Guineas and that it is free to pay out on the new result.

At an inquiry last month, Alligator Blood was disqualified from his win in the race and trainer David Vandyke was fined $20,000.

QRIC confirmed on Wednesday that no internal review had been lodged in relation to that finding and Vandyke had paid the fine.

“As the appeal period of 14 days is complete, Racing Queensland is free to pay out the prizemoney to the amended placegetters,” Integrity commissioner Ross Barnett said.

Leading into the inquiry, which was in relation to Alligator Blood having the prohibited substance altrenogest in its system when it won the $2 million race on January 11, owner Allan Endresz made public comments indicating he would take the matter to the courts in a bid to have any disqualification overturned.

Endresz had appointed legal representatives and indicated he was determined to test the validity of the decision and the Australian rule of racing.

This was expected to delay finalisation of the result, where the Greg Hickman-trained Eleven Eleven will be the new winner, for considerable time.

But with no official notification being made to QRIC or Racing Queensland, payment could be distributed imminently.

ENDS

Big talking owner's threat of legal proceedings and the "landmark legal case " hasn't had any oxygen since the last time they went public so in the absence of a statement that a claim lodged in the Supreme Court it's safe to assume they have thought better of it.

Giddy Up

sobig · « 2020-Aug-27, 02:01 PM **Reply #58** »

Case not over completely apparently

Alligator Blood's owner is preparing to launch an extraordinary $6.2m statement of claim in the Supreme Court for loss of a potential slot in the $15m The Everest.

He says the action will be against Racing Queensland and other as yet unnamed racing bodies and officials in Queensland, in relation to Alligator Blood's disqualification from winning the $1.16m first prize in the Gold Coast Magic Millions Guineas in January

Allan Endresz says the decision to strip Alligator Blood of the race, over a prohibited substance positive with traces of altrenogest found in a post-race sample, cost Alligator Blood the TAB's slot in the $15m The Everest.

In March, Endresz said the TAB pulled out of advanced negotiations for the star horse to run in the TAB's slot in the $15m The Everest in October.

The TAB later signed Nature Strip for its slot for the rich race in October.

Endresz says his legal claim will not only include the claim for potential lost prizemoney in The Everest but also the $1.3m lost Magic Millions first prizemoney and also unspecified reputational damage.

He said it could add up to "tens of millions of dollars."

"We are in preparation ready to launch in the Supreme Court - we had been trying to get a slot with The Everest, the TAB had us as the first port of call for Alligator Blood," Endresz told Racenet.

"The fact that we lost it, I believe, was directly related to the drug issue and now Nature Strip has got it.

"It all builds up for what my lawyers have been preparing, the consequence loss and potential economic loss.

"We are pursuing with a $6million claim for what the potential would have been to win The Everest, against Racing Queensland and potentially a number of bodies.

"My claim is not just overturning the (Magic Millions) disqualification, it's about the flow-on consequences of the loss that have occurred which include reputational damage.

"It could be tens of millions of dollars of reputational loss, the more people say and write shit about this horse."

Arsenal · « 2020-Aug-28, 10:00 AM **Reply #59** »

Interesting to follow the progress of the proposed legal proceedings especially the arguments advanced in order to overcome the first hurdle that no damages arise from decisions made under the Rules AR 279 applies.

AR 279 No damages for decisions made under the Rules

(1)A person is not entitled to make any claim for damages by reason or in consequence of the imposition, annulment, removal,variation, or remission of any decision made,or penalty, restriction or sanction imposed or purporting to be imposed,under the Rules.

(2)No PRA, Steward, Club, or official shall be liable to any person for any loss or damage sustained by that person as a result of, or in any way (either directly or indirectly) arising out of the exercise of any right, privilege, power, duty, function or discretion conferred or imposed, or bona-fide believed to have been conferred or imposed, under the Rules.

No doubt a massive disappointment to be DQ'd and losing the opportunity to negotiate a deal with one of the The Everest's slot holders but that part of the claim is purely speculative and would be long odds to succeed IMO.....still the clever lawyers on both sides will be racking their brains to find any loopholes that may assist their arguments either in support of or in opposition to from the defendants.

Giddy Up

Bubbasmith · « 2020-Sep-01, 08:43 PM **Reply #60** »

Archie Butterfly ( Peter Profit Website ) does not have much regard for Allan Endresz....

The Alligator Man’s Gone Mad

Dead serious?

Sure you are Al, sure you are.

And I’m Cinderella.

The words at the top are those of Alligator Blood’s ‘owner’ Allan Endresz, who as a four time bankrupt can’t own anything at all, but never let the truth get into the way of a con man’s good story.

So now there was fiendish plot where ‘they’ – they did this, they did that, they killed JFK, no they didn’t – staged a car crash on the Gold Coast Motorway in order to cause a 3 hour, 100 kilometre long traffic jam, just so someone employed by ‘them’ could break into the Alligator’s float while it was cruising down a back street short cut that the 2 Dick Van Dyke staff transporting it had diverted it to, dope it with an ovulation drug for mares that just so happens to be a steroid, jump out of the float without being seen, and vanish into the haze.

Allan Endresz gets sillier by the minute.

The next thing you know it will be the Loch Ness monster sticking his long, lithe neck up as the Alligator crosses the Coomera River bridge and giving the gelding a bog tongie while sucking on Regumate drops.

Puh-lease.

Why do we tolerate these sort of dodgier than the dodger style clowns in racing, and why do we allow them to talk this sort of crap and treat it as if it is serious?

No-one doped the Alligator except its peeps,

Vandyke and/or Endresz and/or one of the two stable girls in the float and/or the stable vet.

The rest is all just Edgar Britt.

And Big Al is full of it.

As Dick Van Dyke is some day soon about to find out when the snake turns around and bites him.

How will it bite him?

Hard.

When the charade ends and all else fails. Allan Endresz will sue his beloved trainer Dick Van Dyke for millions in lost earnings and all that jazz.

Just wait and see.

All great love affairs between self-possessed egomaniacs end in tears, just ask Cleopatra and Caesar.

This one will too.

Watch this space.

wily ole dog · « 2020-Sep-02, 08:46 AM **Reply #61** »

Yes and he certainly is all over Van Dyke

Antitab# · « 2020-Sep-02, 09:28 AM **Reply #62** »

Good way to see the moderators end up in court would be to keep posting articles written by serial defamer Archie Butterfly.

ratsack · « 2020-Sep-02, 10:07 PM **Reply #63** »

Quote from: Antitab# on 2020-Sep-02, 09:28 AM

Good way to see the moderators end up in court would be to keep posting articles written by serial defamer Archie Butterfly.

quoted from another source ?

winner · « 2020-Sep-14, 09:05 AM **Reply #64** »

Back to the horse AB

I thought he ran home well.

Rothfire looked really good kicking myself I didn’t have more money on this one

Anyone have the sectionals for rothfires race?

sobig · « 2020-Sep-14, 01:32 PM **Reply #65** »

https://racing.australianturfclub.com.au/meeting/3633

winner · « 2020-Sep-16, 07:25 AM **Reply #66** »

Thanks !

winner · « 2020-Sep-16, 07:26 AM **Reply #67** »

Is there a rothfire discussion?

This one will end up with more wins than losses.

winner · « 2020-Sep-27, 09:45 AM **Reply #68** »

Sad news for rothfire owners

PoisonPen7 · « 2020-Oct-10, 10:39 AM **Reply #69** »

Blowing like a gale. $1.75 out to even money.

Jeunes · « 2020-Nov-23, 07:39 AM **Reply #70** »

New trainer for Alligator Blood and horses out of stable.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/trainer-david-vandyke-speaks-up-after-a-split-with-owners-of-stable-star-alligator-blood-20201122

Arsenal · « 2020-Nov-23, 08:35 AM **Reply #71** »

Endresz gets the heave ho from D v D

Alligator Blood will be trained in Sydney or Melbourne the other horses to be transferred to Nat McCall and Billy Healey

Stradbroke-winning trainer Nat McCall and young horseman Bill Healey will get the majority of Endresz’s stock as the transition process takes place over the next month.

In happier times

Giddy Up

PoisonPen7 · « 2020-Nov-23, 11:05 AM **Reply #72** »

Good article on Kissing Spine - this graphic looks like it would be on a horse much older than Alligator Blood.

https://www.smartpakequine.com/content/kissing-spine-horse

Jeunes · « 2020-Nov-25, 05:18 PM **Reply #73** »

The Gator goes to Gai. It could be interesting as she is not getting rest of his horses and the Gator will be around 5 when he comes back from injury.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/gai-and-the-gator-match-made-in-heaven-20201124

Arsenal · « 2021-Jun-02, 08:24 AM **Reply #74** »

Alligator saga ends in court

BEN DORRIES

ALLIGATOR Blood’s owner has launched legal action in the Supreme Court to void the disqualification of his star from a rich Gold Coast Magic Millions race last year.

Allan Endresz’s action names the Queensland Racing Integrity Commission, the Racing Queensland board and Racing Australia as respondents in the matter.

Alligator Blood was disqualified from last year’s $2 million Gold Coast Magic Millions 3YO Guineas after altrenogest was found in a post-race sample.

Greg Hickman-trained Eleven Eleven was declared the new winner.

However, Endresz (pictured) is seeking to reinstate Alligator Blood as the winner.

Endresz has applied to the court for “the purported disqualification of Alligator Blood” to be found “void” and for QRIC, RQ and RA to pay the costs of the application.

Endresz and his legal team are arguing there was no procedural fairness and Endresz insists he was not given an opportunity to challenge the finding of a prohibited substance.
ENDS

What odds is this getting up......I don't recall the rule but from memory it's a case of strict liability .

Giddy Up