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Author Topic: Betfair - Quo Vadis  (Read 31342 times)

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Online jfc

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O.P. « 2014-Mar-19, 08:57 AM »
Too hard searching for pertinent Betfair threads, so I started a new one with a hopefully general theme.

Hopefully I'll remember to bookmark it.

Now Packer's reported move for full control of Betfair looks like tremendous news.

Hopefully it will give V'landys one more huge headache.

Betfair can make dramatic improvements to its business model here.

But currently there is no chance of it making even the slightest software change needed to make that happen.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/crowns-move-on-betfair-shortens-odds-on-james-packer-wagering-play-20140318-3506r.html

Online jfc

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« 2014-Mar-20, 05:10 AM Reply #1 »
Seems to be going ahead.

I gather one thing Betfair cannot do is the seemingly simple change of different Rakes for different segments.

Once that gargantuan task has been accomplished , it might then offer plenty of food for thought for V'landys.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/dataroom/crown-takes-ownership-of-betfair-arm/story-fnjw8txa-1226859567285#mm-premium

Online jfc

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« 2014-Apr-14, 06:58 PM Reply #2 »
SBS just told me Senator Harradine has kicked the bucket.

It failed to mentioned his greatest effort that got him into the Richard Cranium Hall of Fame.

Putting the kybosh on in running betting.

Now we have Dame Anthony Abbott continuing that insanity.

The sooner Turnbull or even Hockey push that anachronism aside, and Packer can bend their ears on overturning the in running farce the better.

The consumer response will have the added benefit of having both V'landys and Walsh forcibly retired to a fat farm.


Online jfc

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« 2014-May-17, 10:29 AM Reply #3 »
No BO5 today?

No Betfair Quinellas?

Thank Attis!


The time cost of those manual processes was phenomenal, and time is something definitely ain't on my side.

Online jfc

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« 2014-May-17, 11:06 AM Reply #4 »
Just learned BO5s are at Doomben only today.

The new format makes it hard to find.

Online jfc

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« 2014-May-19, 11:05 AM Reply #5 »
Interesting theories that Betfair may pull the plug on Australian Exchange betting.

On horseracing - maybe?

But why also fold AFL etc?

AFL markets look bloody healthy. Most matches hold roughly as much as Group Race.

Less expensive maintenance with scratchings and reduction factors.

http://www.sportismadeforbetting.com/

Online jfc

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« 2014-Dec-17, 08:16 AM Reply #6 »
Not sure what the point of all this is, but my Betfair screen tells me all my non-Exchange bets will soon go to Tripp's outfit.

https://sportsbook.betfair.com.au/

http://www.theage.com.au/business/james-packers-crown-takes-control-of-beteasy-20141216-128ad5.html

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2014-Dec-18, 07:47 AM Reply #7 »
Got this email today:

Betfair has teamed up with BetEasy to form an exciting family of wagering operators offering the best array of betting options and the highest standards of service.

Just like Betfair, BetEasy is an energetic Australian-owned company that has invested heavily in giving its customers the best-possible betting experience online and on mobile.

What does this mean?

You can continue to engage with the betting exchange in exactly the same way as you currently do, and Betfair will continue to improve this unique and important betting platform.

The vast majority of Betfair customers use the exchange for the price advantage and flexibility that this superior wagering platform provides.

From Tuesday 6 January, customers looking to use non-exchange bet types like Best of 4, racing exotics, and sport multis will be serviced by BetEasy where an even larger array of options of that type exist.

To find out more about BetEasy and these changes, click here.

What do I need to do?

You don't need to lift a finger. There's a BetEasy account reserved for you and you will be able to access it using your Betfair login details from Tuesday 6 January 2015.

You can even choose to make a one-off transfer from today onwards. This transfer of funds won't take place until your new account at BetEasy is made available to you from Tuesday, January 6. The percentage of the balance you select to transfer will be calculated when the transfer takes place on January 6.

If you would rather not have a BetEasy account created, you can choose to opt out using the below button.


Offline Lert

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« 2014-Dec-18, 08:27 AM Reply #8 »
All it means is that competition between corporate bookmakers is being even further reduced.
The Packer Juggernaut has bought BetEasy.
They already own Betfair which runs a betting exchange as well as a traditional bookmaking arm.
The Betfair business is dominated by the betting exchange and the bookmaking arm has struggled to get traction.
To cut costs they are closing down the bookmaking arm of Betfair which will now focus solely on the betting exchange business.
Of course they are trying to channel all of Betfair's current bookmaking business clients over to BetEasy rather than lose them to a rival bookmaker.


Offline D-G

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« 2015-Jan-19, 05:16 PM Reply #9 »
Why is it illegal to bet in play in things such as the tennis etc in Australia?

Might actually keep a track of the criminals if allowed, but as it is, turns legal people into "criminals"

Einstein had a nice quote about creating laws that are unenforceable, and thus creating more criminals

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2015-May-11, 09:10 AM Reply #10 »
Matt Stewart editorial in today's Melbourne press. Interesting that he rarely if ever writes about rebates given to high rollers by Tabcorp, somewhat to his fellow Sydney scribes in the News Corp stable. :chin:

Robert Smerdon and his foreman Stuart Webb are not dills.
They know their horses, know the form, know the map, know how and when to bet.
But they are petrified of Betfairitis. Everyone is.
On Saturday everyone thought Lumosty was a good thing at Flemington. The form gurus were all over her. She’d bee too classy, too sharp.
But Lumosty was “off’’ on the betting exchange.
 
Smerdon was at Morphettville and Webb in the Flemington grandstand as Lumosty cantered to the gates, struck down by Betfairitis.
She was unlayable on Betfair and drifted, alarmingly, from $3.20 to $5 on official betting fluctuations.
Both trainer and foreman were being bombarded by texts. “Had a leg fallen off?’’
An odd thing happened. Lumosty bolted in.
Smerdon and Webb said afterwards that their confidence was shot by the time the gates opened.
Since Betfair’s arrival from the UK about a decade ago they and others have learned that the exchange, where in simple terms someone plays bookie and someone else punter, is rarely wrong.

Trainer Robert Smerdon says his confidence was shot about Lumosty’s prospects because of Betfair by the time the gates opened.
A wise old professional punter — let’s call him The Emu — said Betfair was “God”.
“If they’re out the gate at Betfair, they just don’t win,’’ he said.
The Emu cited a recent example. “Horse trained by Mark Kavanagh at Ballarat last week; had trialled beaut, looked a moral. Was something like $2.50 to $2.30 on official flucs but you could get $7 on Betfair. It ran tailed off, last.’’
The Emu says the crippling effect of Betfairitis proves some stables (he wasn’t referring to Kavanagh) must leak like bullet-riddled buckets.
“Info’s getting out, simple as that,’’ he said. “One might be a bit sore, put in an average gallop. Low-paid staff can make a good quid leaking to big Betfair punters.
“But the pros are also doing their own markets, which are often far different than say fixed odds or official betting fluctuations and their opinions are represented through odds available on the exchange. Some big punters are also manipulating markets on it. There is a hell of a lot of smoke and mirrors with Betfair.’’
The stewards are well aware Betfair is God. Whole rooms are dedicated to monitoring it.
Stewards pay little attention to official betting fluctuations but if one is “off’’ on Betfair — like Baron Archer at Echuca in March — alarm bells go off.
Racing Victoria chief steward Terry Bailey said he and his panel found Betfair “very accurate”.
“Many drug tests and inquiries have been sparked by wildly drifting favourites. But the statistical guys (punters) are big on it, one in particular. If he reckons a favourite can’t win, it will be out the gate (drift alarmingly),’’ he said.

Terry Bailey and his stewards monitor Betfair very closely and believe the betting exchange is “very accurate”.
Bookmakers are also believers.
They used to whip up their own betting markets, with an eye on the bookie next door, but most have learned that the real story of the race that’s not yet run is told by Betfair.
The exchange crashed during the middle day of the Warrnambool carnival last week. Some reckon Russian gangsters infected Betfair’s software with a virus, which they’d done before.
The bookies stood helpless on their stands, naked without the wisdom of the exchange.
But for all of its power, the local exchange is said to be in strife; huge overseas but far from it here.
A Betfair spokesman denied it was struggling, saying “the exchange is growing strongly and is the only wagering platform that can service sophisticated and winning customers’’.
Asian exchanges, which are difficult to hold to any account, are already being used by some colourful types. They are hovering as Betfair’s murky successors
« Last Edit: 2015-May-11, 09:12 AM by Bubbasmith »

Offline sharply

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« 2015-May-11, 09:45 AM Reply #11 »
All states should be doing what Victoria is doing by having Corporate betting activities disclosed to them in a timely manner-With the Corporates being obliged to verify the identity of all clients,Racing officals should be in a much better position to draw a picture of betting activity on each race compared to how betting was pre internet days,particularly when the illegal SP Bookies existed.I hope we never lose "The Fair"-With SP's around 101% Plus a Max 6.5%comm,giving a final worst scenario SP of around 108%,they exert a downward pressure on Bookie's %'s,resulting in the most competitive Betting environment ever for Aussie Punters.

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2015-May-11, 05:13 PM Reply #12 »


The tragedy is that Betfair was handicapped out of the race in Australia by the levy on turnover instead of gross profit.

If the so-called 'Asian exchanges' were more than a mythical challenge more people would know of them and be using them -- their integrity would be critical to their market credibility and future prospects.

These 'exchanges' do not exist in any meaningful way.

Online jfc

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« 2015-May-11, 05:31 PM Reply #13 »
The turnover levy on Betfair is unfair.

That has led to a massive drop in liquidity - both here and the UK.

My bet is that Asian Exchanges have been the beneficiaries.


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2015-May-11, 05:44 PM Reply #14 »


I hear what is said -- but please tell us the contact points for the offshore 'betfairs' -- overwhelmed with new money the debate may reopen about turnover or gross profit being the base for a fair levy.

Online jfc

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« 2015-May-11, 06:13 PM Reply #15 »

I hear what is said -- but please tell us the contact points for the offshore 'betfairs' -- overwhelmed with new money the debate may reopen about turnover or gross profit being the base for a fair levy.

You could try PMing HarmersHaven who almost seemed he was spruiking for business here.

Sure, he may out you just as he outed me, but the resultant unexpected exposure might mean that sooner or later someone might contact you.

More seriously it's a word of mouth type thing.

So it might mean asking some significant punter or bookmaker known to you to make overtures on your behalf.

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2015-May-11, 09:04 PM Reply #16 »


PMing does not strike a chord on google.

When speaking was modern technology, Thommo's built a business on word-of-mouth,  but it is not the way to go now.

Either they want a business or they do not -- and punters will be wary of an operator who may leave without a trace.

Surely there is some insulated island haven with internet connections that can use its sovereignty to protect a legitimate 'betfair'.

All rumour and no substance sounds like bulltish.

Offline HarmersHaven

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« 2015-May-11, 10:23 PM Reply #17 »

The tragedy is that Betfair was handicapped out of the race in Australia by the levy on turnover instead of gross profit.

If the so-called 'Asian exchanges' were more than a mythical challenge more people would know of them and be using them -- their integrity would be critical to their market credibility and future prospects.

These 'exchanges' do not exist in any meaningful way.

Another of the "I don't know about it, so they can't possibly exist" brigade.

The more you type Ol' Pete, the more you disgrace yourself.

Punters representative? Punters spokesperson? Punters advocate? You are nothing more than an irrelevant old man with little clue, lots of hot air and access to a keyboard.


Here's an article from the SCMP, about your non-existant exchange: http://www.racing.scmp.com/freeservice/news/news20141123a.asp

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2015-May-12, 08:40 AM Reply #18 »


That is a good story -- mainly about how the HK 'off course' market has adapted to technology -- but the message is the same, 'illegal' betting dominates win and place betting.

Citibet is not Citibank and it is not clear how TAB punters here can open an account -- in that sense it 'does not exist'.

Eating pie in the sky is not nourishing -- if Citibet cards are put on the table in an open business the customers will want in.

Online jfc

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« 2015-Jul-10, 04:16 PM Reply #19 »
Now it's hiked the Rake to 8% for V'landys races.



https://www.betfair.com.au/info/ausracing/

Online jfc

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« 2015-Jul-13, 04:33 PM Reply #20 »
Betfair could easily have suspended the Brownlow Market while Fyfe's future was in doubt.

Instead we have opportunists or whatever playing silly buggers.

Offline whispering

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« 2015-Jul-13, 05:35 PM Reply #21 »
will betfair be the preferring wagering platform of victoria now crown owns it and crownbet and racing.com


or am I dreaming :)

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Jul-14, 09:47 AM Reply #22 »
will betfair be the preferring wagering platform of victoria now crown owns it and crownbet and racing.com


or am I dreaming :)

No I do not think you Victorians are dreaming.

Jamie Packer's Betfair and Crown are currently trying to steal wagering revenue off their competitors and I think their tactic is to suffer a little short term pain with the vision thing while they run the smaller corporates out of business.

Betfair have two of their own on the RVL board and Packer's plan is well and truly under way.

Interesting logic that. We will drop the commission on Victorian Racing reflecting a lower charge from RVL.

So the left hand (Betfair) is paying less to RVL, and because it is being charged less for wagering it conveniently passes this on to customers. But the right hand (Crown) is paying RVL for racing vision on their web site.

I wonder what the sum of the parts is?

If I were a smaller corporate bookmaker, and I were losing money with the current broadcast rights debacle, I'd be reading up on the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 (CCA), and in particular I would read up on terms like unconscionable conduct, predatory pricing, cartel, etc  :)

Online jfc

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« 2015-Aug-06, 01:48 PM Reply #23 »
I've only realised how significant this Betfair RVL deal is:

Racing Victoria recently amended the race fields’ fees that it charges betting exchange operators. On a standard meeting, Betfair will now be charged 1.0 per cent of net customer winnings. This increases to 1.5 per cent for Group and Listed meetings, and 2.0 per cent for Premier meetings such as Melbourne Cup Day.

This means that Betfair will now longer be charged on Turnover.

Say Betfair's average Rake (after discounts) is 4%.

Then RVL gets 25% of that on standard meetings.

But 50% on Premier meetings.

One intriguing consequence is that there was a rival Australian Exchange very briefly, but that closed because of the V'landys fees.

Maybe that could now reopen but not bother with the V'landys model areas?

Bring it on!

http://www.racing.com/news/2015-07-07/vic-wagering-figures-remain-solid

Online jfc

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« 2015-Aug-06, 02:00 PM Reply #24 »


Jamie Packer's Betfair and Crown are currently trying to steal wagering revenue off their competitors and I think their tactic is to suffer a little short term pain with the vision thing while they run the smaller corporates out of business.

Wonder how defamation lawyers would view such an accusation?


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