Betfair - Quo Vadis - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK   harm-plan

Racehorse TALK



Betfair - Quo Vadis - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Betfair - Quo Vadis  (Read 31340 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20953
« 2015-Aug-06, 05:47 PM Reply #25 »
Wonder how defamation lawyers would view such an accusation?

Wow! Is that the best you can do to try and get me   :lol:

Steal = "competitively win" in this instance for the people who need a little help  ;)

It does indeed look like RVL are invoking a wagering taxation model proposed so keenly by Andrew Twaits when he was head of Betfair. He is now on the board of Directors for RVL.

For those that don't know the history, the corporate bookmakers took Racing NSW all the way to the High Court over Racefields legislation and lost comprehensively. They wanted to be charged on profit whereas Racing NSW charges on turnover.

Offline jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 7203
« 2015-Aug-06, 06:04 PM Reply #26 »
Steal = "competitively win" in this instance for the people who need a little help  ;)

No it doesn't.

No alternative meaning of "steal" comes even close to your claim.

A reasonable person would conclude that you are trying to suggest Betfair was doing something unfair.

Competitors are allowed to increase market share. Provided they do so fairly.

Offline Amara

  • Listed
  • User 2420
  • Posts: 451
« 2015-Aug-06, 06:23 PM Reply #27 »
The whole notion of backing horses to lose with Betfair is antithetical to the spirit of racing Bart Cummings said that a decade ago
Have linked totes or a national tote and let bookies and the corporates lay off there

Offline jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 7203
« 2015-Aug-06, 06:35 PM Reply #28 »
The whole notion of backing horses to lose with Betfair is antithetical to the spirit of racing Bart Cummings said that a decade ago
Have linked totes or a national tote and let bookies and the corporates lay off there
From my mathematical standpoint Backing and Laying are the same thing.

Backing A = Laying the complement of A

If I fancied A, then rather then Backing it, I would go to the trouble of offering Lays on all the others.

Because I believe that convoluted way typically increases my Expectation.

However I suspect Fletcher's Laying style is different. Presumably influenced by his insider BFFs.

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20953
« 2015-Aug-06, 07:33 PM Reply #29 »
No alternative meaning of "steal" comes even close to your claim.

"Stealing business" from someone is quite a common term.

Nice try to put words in my mouth.  emthdown

Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12597
« 2015-Aug-06, 08:57 PM Reply #30 »
The whole notion of backing horses to lose with Betfair is antithetical to the spirit of racing Bart Cummings said that a decade ago
Have linked totes or a national tote and let bookies and the corporates lay off there

It's what bookies do everytime they put up the odds, what makes it right then?

Anyway, by definition every time you have a bet, aren't you betting against the others  :/

Anyone who has an understanding of BF knows the platform is fine.

Offline Peter Mair

  • Group 1
  • User 326
  • Posts: 5034
« 2015-Aug-07, 10:07 PM Reply #31 »


Betfair will win in the end

It will take time but a Betfair exchange will be the business model of the global survivors in the business of delivering racing gambling entertainment.

Australia simply does not get it -- and is headed to be a supplier of bred livestock only.

Europe (UK/France) and Asia (HK/Sp/China) do get it and when they openly embrace an international 'exchange' model they will cream the business.


Offline ratsack

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 327
  • Posts: 10712
« 2015-Aug-07, 10:24 PM Reply #32 »

Betfair will win in the end

It will take time but a Betfair exchange will be the business model of the global survivors in the business of delivering racing gambling entertainment.

Australia simply does not get it -- and is headed to be a supplier of bred livestock only.

Europe (UK/France) and Asia (HK/Sp/China) do get it and when they openly embrace an international 'exchange' model they will cream the business.



tell the truth

betfair sent British racing insolvent

Offline sobig

  • Group 2
  • User 583
  • Posts: 3629
« 2015-Aug-07, 10:42 PM Reply #33 »
And Betfair (and bookmakers) are banned in Hong Kong

Offline ratsack

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 327
  • Posts: 10712
« 2015-Aug-07, 10:47 PM Reply #34 »
who is gunna pay for the horses , infrastructure etc

i don't no why i bother    :slaphead:

Offline jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 7203
« 2015-Aug-08, 05:18 PM Reply #35 »
Betfair averages today per race:

$300,302 Randwick
$367,285 Flemington

+22.3% despite having an extra race

Price sensitive punters that V'landys denies exist have kicked him where the sun don't shine.

Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12597
« 2015-Aug-08, 09:34 PM Reply #36 »
tell the truth

betfair sent British racing insolvent

Think it was pretty cactus before BF  :chin:

Offline ratsack

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 327
  • Posts: 10712
« 2015-Aug-08, 10:07 PM Reply #37 »
Think it was pretty cactus before BF  :chin:

true mate

but did BF help the cause   :chin:

Offline jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 7203
« 2015-Aug-09, 06:49 AM Reply #38 »
Not sure why anyone should be trying to steer this discussion into Lay Back and think of England, considering what an irredeemable mess the local industry is in.

Consider what an impact Betfair has if you accept the estimate that its presence lifts overall revenue by 20%.

That is if Betfair is down, punters might go elsewhere, but nowhere near enough to compensate.

Presumably if Betfair action is merely lower, overall revenue will also be impacted significantly.

V'landys was clobbered on Betfair yesterday, so I doubt he'll be enthralling us with how exceptional turnover has been, anytime soon.


Tim Moore-Barton, CEO of Betfair Australia, believes that more racing administrators are becoming aware of the importance of having a viable onshore betting exchange.

“The technology outage that we had during the Warrnambool Carnival in May is a pretty interesting case study,” said Moore-Barton on Racing.com’s Racing Ahead on RSN.

“I think that led to Racing Victoria understanding the importance of the product.

“The first two days of Warrnambool had industry turnover across all operators being up 17 per cent (Tuesday) and 15 per cent (Wednesday).

“Unfortunately on the third day (Thursday), we had a full day outage and that actually led to industry turnover being down 6 per cent.

“When Betfair was down, the industry as a whole suffered.

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20953
« 2015-Aug-09, 07:48 AM Reply #39 »

Tim Moore-Barton, CEO of Betfair Australia, believes that more racing administrators are becoming aware of the importance of having a viable onshore betting exchange.

“The technology outage that we had during the Warrnambool Carnival in May is a pretty interesting case study,” said Moore-Barton on Racing.com’s Racing Ahead on RSN.

“I think that led to Racing Victoria understanding the importance of the product.

“The first two days of Warrnambool had industry turnover across all operators being up 17 per cent (Tuesday) and 15 per cent (Wednesday).

“Unfortunately on the third day (Thursday), we had a full day outage and that actually led to industry turnover being down 6 per cent.

“When Betfair was down, the industry as a whole suffered.

Yawn.

PR from the head of the Jamie Packer Betfair talking about the joint venture between Packer and RVL.

Do you always post propaganda as fact?

The industry is in an "irredeemable mess" is it? Can you expand on this because I cannot see any crisis - just whingers on social media - see plenty of those.

Offline jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 7203
« 2015-Aug-09, 07:59 AM Reply #40 »
Yawn.

PR from the head of the Jamie Packer Betfair talking about the joint venture between Packer and RVL.

Do you always post propaganda as fact?

The industry is in an "irredeemable mess" is it? Can you expand on this because I cannot see any crisis - just whingers on social media - see plenty of those.

Do you always dismiss facts as propaganda?

If you can't see the crisis maybe it's a consequence of having your cranium stuck up your cloaca.

When Flemington beats Randwick by a race average of over 22% that's quite a yawning chasm.

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20953
« 2015-Aug-09, 08:08 AM Reply #41 »
Do you always dismiss facts as propaganda?

If you can't see the crisis maybe it's a consequence of having your cranium stuck up your cloaca.

When Flemington beats Randwick by a race average of over 22% that's quite a yawning chasm.


What are the specifics of the crisis please? If you refuse to answer this then I will just dismiss your words as yet another exaggeration on social media.

And where are you getting your Betfair stats from? I cannot seem to be able to get historical data to check your figures.

Offline jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 7203
« 2015-Aug-09, 08:24 AM Reply #42 »
What are the specifics of the crisis please? If you refuse to answer this then I will just dismiss your words as yet another exaggeration on social media.

And where are you getting your Betfair stats from? I cannot seem to be able to get historical data to check your figures.
You saw that AFR chart which was probably based on the Fact Book.


If you can't find the Betfair data, then go bother Betfair.

For some reason a number of people here prefer to disrupt me rather than make basic searches.

When I publish a link they ignore it.

When I don't they seize on that as an opportunity to challenge my credibility.

https://www.betfair.com.au/racing

https://www.betfair.com.au/racing/results/08-08-2015

https://www.betfair.com.au/racing/thoroughbreds/flemington/race-9/27505180/view/2.101274038
« Last Edit: 2015-Aug-09, 08:44 AM by jfc »

Offline jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 7203
« 2015-Aug-12, 05:23 PM Reply #43 »
Guess what?.

On a mere midweek we have race averages:

$139,442 Canterbury
$163,357 Sandown

+17% Sandown

Once more the Vic meeting had an extra race.

But again tore strips off V'landys land.



Offline ratsack

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 327
  • Posts: 10712
« 2015-Aug-12, 07:38 PM Reply #44 »
Guess what?.

On a mere midweek we have race averages:

$139,442 Canterbury
$163,357 Sandown

+17% Sandown

Once more the Vic meeting had an extra race.

But again tore strips off V'landys land.




how much of that money (vic)  is overseas money AND if so how much do they make out of it ?


Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20953
« 2015-Aug-13, 12:30 AM Reply #45 »
how much of that money (vic)  is overseas money AND if so how much do they make out of it ?


  emthup

Offline jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 7203
« 2015-Aug-13, 06:18 AM Reply #46 »
how much of that money (vic)  is overseas money AND if so how much do they make out of it ?


how much of that money (nsw)  is overseas money AND if so how much do they make out of it ?

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20953
« 2015-Aug-13, 11:56 AM Reply #47 »
how much of that money (nsw)  is overseas money AND if so how much do they make out of it ?

That obfuscates ratsack's point that because of the overseas money comparative figures are unreliable.

Offline jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 7203
« 2015-Aug-13, 12:11 PM Reply #48 »
That obfuscates ratsack's point that because of the overseas money comparative figures are unreliable.
That obfuscates jfc's point that there is no reason for overseas money to behave any differently to Australian money regarding NSW vs Vic.

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20953
« 2015-Aug-13, 03:19 PM Reply #49 »
That obfuscates jfc's point that there is no reason for overseas money to behave any differently to Australian money regarding NSW vs Vic.


Aren't you constantly telling us about rebates for large overseas punters and then informing us that we are being ripped off - I've always maintained it is TABCorp shareholders being ripped off but that is the subject of another thread.

If you think large volumes are coming into the TAB pools due to rebate merchants, and you don't know if they are skewing the stats (they very well could be - a plausible scenario) then your conclusions could be wrong.


BACK TO ALL TOPICS
Sitemap