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Author Topic: Betfair - Quo Vadis  (Read 26785 times)

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Online jfc

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« 2016-Jul-30, 05:42 PM Reply #75 »
As local Betfair liquidity gets even more insipid, the NY Times covers Betfair's entry into the USA.

Seem to be plenty of V'landys impersonators over there.

Can't have any progress because of risks to integrity?

Tell it to the Marines!


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/30/sports/horse-racing/betfair-exchange-wagering-gambling-horse-racing.html

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2016-Jul-30, 08:40 PM Reply #76 »


A post on another thread is relevant here.

I believe I am blatantly in agreement with 'jfc'.

Corporates have two tactical advantages.

First, any sensible 'win' and 'place' punter can usually get a marginally better price from a corporate -- and that 'free ride' means that TABs do not get the bet (and the takeout).

Second, corporates can screen out those punters that have the temerity to win regularly -- winning bets placed with a corporate is seen as causing an unfair reduction of their profitability.

Tabcorp and TABs generally are on the ropes for basic W&P betting business -- so their defences include rebates to the professional punters which further disadvantages the ordinary modest TAB punters which are the source of the money in the pools to be knocked off.

Even worse, corporates are so shielded by rapacious TAB take-outs from exotic bets, that they are able to take these bets -- paying TAB dividends -- with the alacrity of a protected return.

Racing administrators who thought their best protection was to tax Betfair on turnover, and not gross profit, made a very serious mistake -- and then compounded it by abusing their monopoly pricing position to screw the very punters that put the money in the tin for everyone.

As is, racing gambling is a dirty-pool game rigged against modest punters -- but, as the high-court says, betting is not compulsory so the dirty game goes on.

Online jfc

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« 2016-Sep-07, 05:13 PM Reply #77 »
Betfair dumping the Cloaca State.

Couldn't happen to a more deserving Gaming Commission!



http://calvinayre.com/2016/06/01/business/northern-territory-legislation-lures-betfair/

Online jfc

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« 2017-Oct-21, 01:19 PM Reply #78 »
The Betfair Market Activity on Johann Vermeer seems more in keeping with Brett Whitely on a bender!

Trust me I've been a significant part of it.

I'm still concentrating on that Market and should comment once it's settled.

I don't recall a distortion like this since 2007, so suggest all study this while it's still alive.



https://www.betfair.com.au/exchange/horse-racing/marketactivity?id=1.135649030&selectionId=15425162

https://www.betfair.com.au/exchange/plus/horse-racing/market/1.135649030

Online jfc

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« 2017-Oct-22, 05:19 AM Reply #79 »
Taking me a while to work through the phenomenal number of responses to this post.

Anyway, Betfair offered its first ever Top 4 Market in Australia on the Caulfield Cup.

Whereupon it appears some robot went haywire trying to Drip-Lay $5,000 on the Favourite at extravagant Odds.

For a least 30 minutes it managed to Lay $4,691.50 at $5+ for average Odds of $9.57.

Where in fact the True Odds were ~$2.14.

And managed to lose $40,198.50!

Anyone who read my initial post could have still exploited the fallout from that incident.

Never mind.

Perhaps another opportunity like this will come up in another 15 years.


Offline Gintara

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« 2017-Oct-22, 09:23 AM Reply #80 »
More importantly I'm sure you did ok jfc?

Online jfc

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« 2019-Aug-21, 12:48 PM Reply #81 »
Not sure if anyone can read the link below, but....

Betfair operating on HK from September!

No further details yet.

But if there aren't any sneaky commission or other stunts this could be huge!

Especially if they offer Quinellas and Duets. Fat chance.

https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/sha-tin-races/?utm_source=sf&utm_medium=edm&utm_campaign=racing_insights&utm_term=newsletter&utm_content=hongkong_hub

Online jfc

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Offline Gintara

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« 2019-Aug-22, 04:40 PM Reply #83 »
Love it  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:   emthup

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Aug-22, 09:34 PM Reply #84 »

Bring it on --punters should keep faith in Betfair


The prospect of Betfair offering a 6% matched bet option on HK racing will disrupt Australian racing.

The idea that the HK authorities are 'not involved' is hardly likely -- rather,  they will be accepting and watching.

..........long term HK racing has the brightest future -- Europe is in the doldrums and in Australia administrators have lost the plot with contrived inflated fields and rorting takeouts..............  China is still to play a hand.

Circa 2000, Betfair won a UK award for the best new business established.

It promised a fair go for punters -- no bet for unless matched with a bet against.

It was a powerful force for integrity -- alerting stewards to irregularities.

It was a protector of the public interest -- only race meetings that paid-their-way would survive.

Circa 2006, Australian racing administrators wet themselves, put on tantrums and, wrongly, declared Betfair would destroy racing  -- it would only 'destroy' the rubbish racing that should not be run at public expense.

RVL had the balls to tax 'gross profit' until a little general dictated a 'tax on turnover' model to effectively outlaw Betfair.


..... the wheel of fortune is turning........... unless Betfair Australia is precluded from 6% racing on offshore events.



Offline Gintara

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« 2019-Aug-23, 09:53 AM Reply #85 »

Bring it on --punters should keep faith in Betfair


The prospect of Betfair offering a 6% matched bet option on HK racing will disrupt Australian racing.



Why will it disrupt Australian racing? Traditionally it's raced on Wednesday nights & Sundays twilights (Aus time) so it dovetails in perfect for those who want to do the work on the form.

Having BF now fielding is  :icecream:

Offline fours

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« 2019-Aug-23, 10:26 AM Reply #86 »
Hmmmm,

Might be a while BUT Hong Kong becoming China and no horse race betting allowed in China....

Fours

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Aug-26, 08:18 PM Reply #87 »

HK racing .............. Wednesday and Sunday nights .....  very appealing time slots

The 'night' light has still to shine in the bunkers of Australian racing administrators -- possibly bar the O'Valley of Tears team hankering for a Cox Plate at night.

Most punters would love to be free on Saturdays  --  families need dads and grands to do things on Saturdays.

Once Betfair gets a first-mover advantage on 'nights' in HongKong it will be more difficult for local racing to rely on Saturday-days to keep the faith and turnover stable.

HK racing also offers something that Australia does not -- a manageable number of contenders in the national stable.

HK racing is not without flaws -- its Valley is also more likely to be unhappy .............on Sundays there are still too many starters with no-hope cluttering up the fields.

......wait for the national administrators who will constrain the fields and widen the weights......... not quite roulette racing perhaps but  contests likely to rank with the very best, and most profitable,  racing ever put on.

...... do not wait for Australia to reclaim its deserved pole-position in the asian racing arena... no one thinks!






Offline Antitab#

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« 2019-Aug-27, 09:54 AM Reply #88 »
HK racing .............. Wednesday and Sunday nights .....  very appealing time slots

Most punters would love to be free on Saturdays  --  families need dads and grands to do things on Saturdays.


Pete

Hand on heart, do you really genuinely believe Australian punters dont want to bet on a Saturday afternoon?

 

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Aug-27, 12:03 PM Reply #89 »

50+ years on -- if I did not have a bet, it was not Saturday

Of course punters want to bet on Saturday afternoons -- that's when the races are run

Old habits may die hard but they do die -- most likely when a new preference is born.

Now, the most sensible way to bet on racing is from home -- not going to the races eventually became the new habit.

Putting aside racing other than in Sydney and Melbourne on Saturdays became a new habit -- and unless RVL gets its mind into gear it will be just Sydney in Australia and the temptation of HK will loom large.


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Aug-29, 02:05 PM Reply #90 »


Honk Honk -- clear the road for a fair bet

Betfair is making an effort to help Australian punters to be comfortable about HK racing:

https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/hong-kong-racing-expert-betting-guide/

It will take some time for Australian punters to get the hang of hong -- already Racenet and Punters.dot.com provide tips and selections  -- and Racenet has its usual form guide.

Offline Gintara

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« 2019-Aug-29, 05:43 PM Reply #91 »

Honk Honk -- clear the road for a fair bet


It will take some time for Australian punters to get the hang of hong --

  :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

Keep up Pete, the savvy Aussie's have been playing for ages  :whistle:

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Aug-29, 07:45 PM Reply #92 »
 
'Keeping up' is what change is all about -- not least in racing

Racing across nations is run like national airlines -- every state subsidizes its own monopoly and handicaps the rest.

Change comes slowly --  resisted at every turn.

It will be interesting to see the local reaction to Betfair Australia operating on HK racing and taking a 6% commission on winning bets.

Bring it on.

It is now 20 years since I first suggested 'asian racing' would steal the business from Australia.

Singapore has not kept up with Hong Kong -- it is no longer a credible threat. Mainland China looms longer term.

Hong Kong is the likely thief --  with races run on turf at Shatin 

[The HK Valley is a bit like Australia's, not the happiest, more like mid-week nonsense.]

Even so the likely thief has some issues to address.

The Shatin turf track has the long-straight runs usually conducive to fair racing -- even so the fields are 'inflated' by the acceptance of long-priced runners more likely to be an impediment in cluttered fields.

All getting a chance may be democratic but product quality management is critical -- a demonstrably fair race among in-form, clearly qualified, well known contenders is the stuff of excellence.

Local Australian administrators,  not liking Betfair, will put on a tantrum, possibly becoming incontinent, in their efforts to protect their locally dictated menu of over-blown, unfairly run excesses.

.......... let freedom reign ....... that would be the catch-cry of most Australians denied the truth about local racing rorts.





Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Sep-02, 08:26 PM Reply #93 »

Racenet  and PDC tipsters did well

................... on a quick look the Racenet  and PDC tipsters did well in terms of including winners in their top 4 selections but  Australian punters need to feel 'in control'  and access to more form guides in a, now or prospective, familiar format would be a next step.

I was away yesterday -- did the betfair market for the HK races perform well?


Online jfc

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« 2019-Sep-03, 08:55 AM Reply #94 »
I rarely Back on Betfair but couldn't resist the $9.60 for Fast and Furious the 2nd favourite that eased out to $6.45.

Goes to show how underpatronised Betfair was on HK!

Some Win pools touched $50,000.

Place was garbage despite some big Overs available.

Betfair needs to lift its game. From my experience it seems to dream up ways of pissing up its supporters, not realising how inherently insane such a tactic is. The lukewarm turnover on HK may be a consequence of that.

https://www.tab.com.au/racing/2019-09-01/SHA-TIN/E/R/8

Offline Arsenal

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« 2019-Sep-05, 09:40 AM Reply #95 »
BETFAIR TOLD TO STOP OPERATING ON HK RACES
Wednesday 04 September, 2019   
Betfair has been told to '"cease and desist" operating on Hong Kong racing in a strongly worded letter from the Jockey Club.

The HKJC said it was caught by surprise when the betting exchange made the announcement last month it was to start operating on Hong Kong racing.

The club said there was no consultation between the two parties and given Betfair had made its intention public without any agreement, the HKJC was also going public with a response.

"The Club takes this matter seriously as it represents a serious integrity issue and an equally serious infringement of its intellectual property rights," HKJC secretary Philana Poon said in a letter to Betfair chief executive Tim Moore-Barton.

"In addition, creating the opportunity for people to back horses to lose is against what we all believe in."

"As a matter of principle and consistency, the Club considers that Betfair ought not be permitted to exploit overseas racing where there has been no approval from the relevant overseas racing authority.

"The Club demands that Betfair immediately cease and desist from: offering, in any capacity or form, wagering via its betting exchange platform (including in-play betting) on Hong Kong racing; promoting or otherwise advertising, in any manner, wagering via its betting exchange platform (including in-play betting) on Hong Kong racing.

"As noted above your announcement that Betfair would be offering wagering on Hong Kong racing was made without any prior notice to the Club. You made the announcement via Twitter and YouTube, and we were first made aware of it by the media. On a similar basis we are making this letter public via the media to place our concerns on the public record."

The club also expressed its concerns over Betfair's parent company Crown Resorts.

"The Club is also critically concerned about the context in which Betfair's move to commence wagering on Hong Kong racing has occurred. As you will be aware, in recent days, a series of serious allegations have been published in the Australian media (and internationally) regarding apparent historical failures by Crown Resorts to oversee and manage fundamental risks to entities controlled by it," the club said.

"The allegations include, but are not limited to, allegations that Crown Resorts or its agents, affiliates or subsidiaries engaged in money-laundering; breached gambling laws; and partnered with junket operators with links to drug traffickers, money launderers, human traffickers, and organised crime groups.

"Of particular note, on 8 August 2019, the New South Wales Government's Independent Liquor & Gaming Authority announced an inquiry into a proposed sale of shares in Crown Resorts.

"In its announcement, the L&G Authority acknowledged the recent media reports, and stated that such an inquiry was necessary having regard to the primary objectives of the Casino Control Act 1992 (NSW), which include ensuring that the "management and operation of a casino remain free from criminal influence or exploitation, that gaming in a casino is conducted honestly and controlling the potential of a casino to cause harm to the public interest and to individuals and families.

"Such an inquiry into your holding company's operations within the highly regulated casino industry manifestly raises concerns over the adequacy of corporate governance measures adopted throughout the Crown Resorts group.

"Betfair's approach of commencing operating on Hong Kong racing without having secured any authority from the Club to do this has done nothing to alleviate those concerns."

ENDS

Giddy Up :beer:

 

Online jfc

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« 2019-Sep-05, 05:17 PM Reply #96 »
Is any publicity good publicity?

Wonder why no media outlet asked Betfair to comment?



Betfair held just over A$420,000 (HK$2,218,900) on Sunday’s season opening meeting, however Jockey Club chief executive Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges has continually emphasised it is not the loss of turnover that concerns him, but the hit to integrity that exchange betting offers.


 
https://www.scmp.com/sport/racing/article/3025638/jockey-club-orders-betfair-cease-and-desist-betting-hong-kong-racing

Offline Gintara

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« 2019-Sep-07, 01:59 PM Reply #97 »
Whilst the add is still running at the top of BF, I can't see the markets up for HK tomorrow (yet?)  :chin:

Online jfc

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« 2019-Sep-08, 10:35 AM Reply #98 »
Seem to be some weird Place Overs on Betfair at Sha Tin early.

I'm currently responsible for 100% of the Matches on R1 so it's easy for any of you to figure out my bets.

Still lots of apparent Place Overs for the taking.

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Sep-08, 01:40 PM Reply #99 »

The Betfair betting guide is instructive

......... looking at the betting sites, how is the 'track' disclosed as between 'turf', all-weather' and 'dirt etc -- please


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