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Bill Vlahos - Psychology of Punting - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Bill Vlahos - Psychology of Punting  (Read 127056 times)

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Offline dubbledee

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« 2014-Feb-21, 05:21 PM Reply #175 »
BIt of a cheap shot, IMO.

We all know it's difficult to give up the punt.

Offline Jims Punting

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« 2014-Feb-21, 05:23 PM Reply #176 »
BIt of a cheap shot, IMO.

We all know it's difficult to give up the punt.
Nah ... it's easy ... ya just take away the money ... it will stop :)

Offline dubbledee

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« 2014-Feb-21, 05:24 PM Reply #177 »
Oooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkay.

Can I get back to you on that one.

Offline Jims Punting

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« 2014-Feb-21, 05:26 PM Reply #178 »
... unless you are BV that is ... using opm  :lol:

Offline Draven39

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« 2014-Feb-21, 09:40 PM Reply #179 »
BIt of a cheap shot, IMO.

We all know it's difficult to give up the punt.

Bit of a cheap shot?

What? As opposed to doing a runner with other people's money? Even if those other people are a bunch of stupid greedy idiots, still, can't have any sympathy for a con man.  :rolleyes:

Offline Jims Punting

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« 2014-Feb-21, 11:45 PM Reply #180 »
I think DD's comment was tongue in cheek.

Offline dubbledee

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« 2014-Feb-22, 08:52 AM Reply #181 »
OK, that's the last time I'll attempt humour.  :rolleyes:

Offline worldisavampire

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« 2014-Feb-22, 09:32 AM Reply #182 »
I thought it was a cracker   :biggrin:

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2014-Feb-22, 11:28 AM Reply #183 »
Bill can't help hisself caught on camera in bush pub tab ......investors still waiting for payout. :shutup:


 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/bill-vlahos-found-having-a-punt-in-a-nsw-country-pub/story-fnibcaa0-1226833138525?utm_source=Herald%20Sun&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial&net_sub_uid=6442941

But 95% of investors have received their principal back - according to Bill. Many of them 2 to 3 times their initial outlay.

Are we being too harsh on Bill?


Offline Jims Punting

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« 2014-Feb-22, 02:24 PM Reply #184 »
But 95% of investors have received their principal back - according to Bill. Many of them 2 to 3 times their initial outlay.

Are we being too harsh on Bill?
Gosh PP7 ... I don't know. Does Billo have the books to show that the 95% have their money?

If there is $194 mil missing, then the 5% of members who have lost money
are certainly as mad as meat ants on a hot day about it.

So ferociously upset are they, that Bill has slipped over the border "into hiding" where the cops
can't find him, but the boys in the TAB have no problems spotting him regularly!

Not only that, Billo appears to "fear for his safety," but apparently the TAB manager is a non-violent soul.

Modern fugitives have it much better than we did in the old days  :rolleyes:

Offline Draven39

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« 2014-Feb-22, 11:46 PM Reply #185 »
I think DD's comment was tongue in cheek.

Yeah I was slow and it flew right over my head... that and I shouldn't post on forums when I'm tired   :biggrin:

Offline whispering

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« 2014-Feb-22, 11:51 PM Reply #186 »
hes not in trouble because he hasnt been charged, afaik there isnt a crime committed othdr than idiots giving him thr money and him being a bad punter.

Offline Draven39

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« 2014-Feb-22, 11:58 PM Reply #187 »
hes not in trouble because he hasnt been charged, afaik there isnt a crime committed othdr than idiots giving him thr money and him being a bad punter.

What about people joining a syndicate and paying money for the purchase of horse flesh, but their money is never paid to the bloodstock agent (ie. Inglis) and instead just seems to disappear?

I can't comment with any real knowledge on the legality of it, but you surely have to wonder if it doesn't break some law or constitute fraud or obtaining money by deception?

Steve M

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« 2014-Feb-28, 11:05 PM Reply #188 »
CONTROVERSIAL racing figure Bill Vlahos has been charged by Racing Victoria stewards on two counts and has been disqualified until he faces the Racing And Appeals Disciplinary Board.

Vlahos, who did not attend the RV stewards inquiry on Thursday and was recently spotted betting at the Barooga Hotel, has been banned from betting, owning horses and also setting foot on a racecourse until he faces the RADB on a date to be fixed.

Stewards allege Vlahos diverted at least $381,000 from his punters’ club The Edge to his BC3 Thoroughbred operation.

Stewards also allege $958,125 which was paid to him by intended part-owners of the $5 million half-brother to Black Caviar was also diverted to BC3 Thoroughbreds.

RV general manager integrity Dayle Brown said stewards had issued two charges against Vlahos in relation to his punters’ club The Edge and also BC3 Thoroughbreds.


“Those charges relate to the alleged dishonest, fraudulent or improper actions of Vlahos in connection with his operation of BC3 Thoroughbreds,” Brown said.

Stewards allege punters who joined The Edge placed their money into Vlahos’ bank account on the basis that he would use that money to bet on Melbourne and Sydney races.

They allege that at least $381,000 which was transferred to The Edge was used to support the financial operations of BC3 Thoroughbreds.

The other charge pertains to his purchase of Lot 131 better known as Black Caviar’s half-brother, the late Jimmy, for $5 million at least year’s Inglis Easter Yearling Sales.

The charge alleges Vlahos received $1,783,125 from three intended part-owners of which only $825,000 was passed on to Inglis.

Stewards allege Vlahos diverted $958,125 to BC3 Thoroughbreds without the consent of the four intended part-owners.

He also told three other intended part-owners that they didn’t need to pay their invoices as their shares in The Edge would cover their costs which was dishonest and fraudulent representation.

Brown also stated the investigation was ongoing.

He also said RV had conducted an extensive review into syndications and their operations and they need to provide greater protection for owners.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2014-Mar-05, 08:08 AM Reply #189 »
BILL VLAHOS CHARGED OVER BC THOROUGHBREDS - BARRED FROM TRACKS UNTIL HEARD

BILL VLAHOS CHARGED (PHOTO THE AGE)


DAYLE BROWN - RVL GENERAL MANAGER OF INTEGRITY

 
RACING Victoria (RV) Executive General Manager – Integrity, Dayle Brown, has issued the following statement regarding RV’s investigation into the operations of BC3 Thoroughbreds.

“The stewards have today issued two charges against registered owner and stablehand, Bill Vlahos, as a result of our investigation into BC3 Thoroughbreds,” Mr Brown said.

“Those charges relate to the alleged dishonest, fraudulent or improper actions of Mr Vlahos in connection with his operation of BC3 Thoroughbreds.

“Mr Vlahos has been banned, among other things, from attending racecourses, participating in the ownership of any racehorse and betting on thoroughbred racing until the hearing and determination of the charges by the independent Racing Appeals and Disciplinary (RAD) Board on a date to be fixed.”

In issuing the charges, Brown provided an update on the status and key findings of the RV stewards’ investigation, together with an RV review of syndication and ownership rules, policies and procedures.

Status of Investigation

“Our investigation into the operations of BC3 Thoroughbreds remains on-going and should any further breaches of the Australian Rules of Racing be detected by any individual then additional charges will be laid,” Mr Brown said.

“To date charges have been laid against Mr Vlahos and registered owner Joe Zaiter as a result of evidence obtained during our investigation. Both will appear before the RAD Board on a date to be fixed.

“During the course of our investigation we have obtained and are continuing to analyse over one million emails, financial transactions and company documents and our two full-time investigators, both former Victoria Police detectives, have conducted more than 40 interviews.

“Mr Vlahos refused a previous request to be interviewed and he did not attend a stewards’ inquiry as directed yesterday.

“Whilst our focus has been on the operations of BC3 Thoroughbreds we have, during the course of our investigation, compiled evidence relating to the operation of Mr Vlahos’ purported punters club ‘The Edge’.

“We have kept the Victoria Police Fraud Squad abreast of our findings to date and we are continuing to cooperate and assist them with their investigation into ‘The Edge’.”

Brown explained that any horses still owned by BC3 Thoroughbreds or Mr Vlahos have been permitted to compete as they are under the jurisdiction of the administrator Moore Stephens or bankruptcy trustee PCI Partners and thus no funds or benefits have been derived by Mr Vlahos.

Charges Issued

To date, RV stewards have issued four charges against two individuals as a result of its extensive investigation into BC3 Thoroughbreds.

On 5 February 2014, RV stewards issued two charges against registered owner Joe Zaiter alleging breaches of AR 175(gg) which states: “The Committee of any Club or the Stewards may penalize any person who makes any false or misleading statement or declaration in respect of any matter in connection with the administration or control of racing.”

On 28 February, 2014, RV stewards issued two charges against Mr Vlahos alleging breaches of AR 175(a) which states: “The Committee of any Club or the Stewards may penalize any person who, in their opinion, has been guilty of any dishonest, corrupt, fraudulent, improper or dishonorable action or practice in connection with racing.”

The charges against Mr Zaiter and Mr Vlahos will be heard by the RAD Board on a date to be fixed.

Syndication & Ownership Review

In parallel with its investigation into the operations of BC3 Thoroughbreds, RV management have been conducting an extensive review into the rules, policies and procedures regarding syndication and owner registration, operations and compliance.

Extensive consultation has been undertaken with the Australian Securities and Investment

Commission (ASIC) and industry stakeholders, including the Thoroughbred Racehorse Owners’ Association (TROA), the Australian Trainers’ Association (ATA) and a delegation of licensed syndicators.

Management will table its report to the RV Board in April. The report will consider, among other things, the potential need to:

• Amend the Rules of Racing to take into account the changed ownership marketplace, and in particular, the significant growth in syndicates;

• Improve the regulation of syndications;

• Provide protection for owners in the period before a racehorse is registered with Racing Information Services Australia;

• Explore if the existing trust-based process for selling shares in racehorses might be improved with the implementation of basic agreements and sales documentation;

• Provide more information to people interested in ownership and protecting their investment.



Meanwhile the liquidators of BC3 are chasing the money from the reported sale of Zoustar for some Millions......that's another story. :o

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2014-Mar-05, 08:57 AM Reply #190 »

What a joke barring  Million Dollar Bill from having a bet or attending race meetings.

If Vlahos walked into a TAB in Dubbo, Port Fairy, Cooma or Townsville  or at the track in Port Macquarie, Cairns or Port Augusta to have a bet he would get any bet on.Any person disqualified from attending racecourses or TABs would have no trouble continuing to place bets away from where they would be recognised, especially after all the publicity of any disqualification had died down.

If some bloke was rubbed out in Far North Queensland do you think anyone at Flemington  or Randwick would even know he was rubbed out let alone what he looked like ?

Offline Shogun Lodge

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« 2014-Mar-05, 09:41 AM Reply #191 »
Mr Simon Marshall, still at Channel 7, spent a long 2 minutes saying nothing on the coverage last Saturday.
Cohost goose raised the matter  thanked Simon for his input which was nil!
Very awkward telly.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2014-Mar-07, 07:14 PM Reply #192 »
Bill Vlahos, the man accused of ripping off $144m from punters, breaks his silence  
 
 Rita Panahi  •
  Herald Sun  •
 March 06, 2014 11:00PM

Bill Vlahos says he has not conned or robbed anybody. Pictu David Caird
Bill Vlahos says he has not conned or robbed anybody. Pictu David Caird Source: News Corp Australia
  

 EXCLUSIVE: AN emotional Bill Vlahos has declared he is not a conman in his first interview since the collapse of his multimillion-dollar punting club.  
  
The mastermind of The Edge gambling syndicate said: “I haven’t robbed or conned anybody. Absolutely not.”

In an exclusive interview with the Herald Sun Mr Vlahos said threats, hired heavies and punters who lost money have pushed him into hiding.

And he is preparing himself for the possibility of prison.

“In conversation with my wife and my family and lawyer everything is on the table,” Mr Vlahos said.

“I may not be qualified right now, but I am a psychologist, so I’m pretty attuned in terms of making sure the kids are well looked after and that we are making decisions about the future with everything on the table.”



SPECIAL REPORT PART 1: THE RISE AND FALL OF DOLLAR BILL

SPECIAL REPORT PART 2: ON THE TRAIL OF BILL VLAHOS

BILL VLAHOS AND HIS STRIPPER

SIMON MARSHALL: I AM A VLAHOS VICTIM TOO


Mr Vlahos’s punting club owes creditors at least $144 million. But investors claim unpaid winnings total more than $500 million.

Mr Vlahos became emotional when asked where he thought he’d be in three years.

“In three years I hope that every single person who has lost money has got it back,” Mr Vlahos said, shedding tears.

“I think I’m a bit emotional because I became a psychologist for a reason,” he said.

“And it was about people having a certain lifestyle …”

Mr Vlahos, whose passport has been confiscated, also vowed not to flee despite several investigations.

“Hopefully there is no music to face because our investigations will find what we need to and it’s hunky dory.

“But as I’ve said, I’ve come back from overseas when I was halfway across the world and we’ve stayed in this jurisdiction. We’re staying here. I am meeting my obligations.”



Bill Vlahos back in Melbourne
Bill Vlahos denies any wrongdoing in the collapse of his punters club. Pictu David Caird Source: News Corp Australia
    

Mr Vlahos said he is constrained by legal advice from detailing what he believes happened to the punting fortune.

But he insists the mysterious Daniel Maxwell he has previously blamed at court for his woes is not a figment of his imagination.

“I know I haven’t taken anyone’s money, I know that I haven’t siphoned money anywhere. The whole time I thought the money was still there, and we were going to wind it up.”

Asked if there was any money left, he said he could not answer that until the trustees and administrators had finished their work.

He also denied he was behind the firebombing of his ute, containing a laptop and documents, at his Connewarre property near Geelong.

“We had about $20,000 worth of uninsured jewellery that went, it had all my kids clothes, all my clothes.. I packed everything into the ute, kids cricket bags, toys.

“It was everything we owned. And that’s why we had to go to the school to get clothes for the kids out of lost property because my accounts were frozen as well.”


WILL THE REAL BILL VLAHOS PLEASE STAND UP?

GLOBAL HUNT FOR MISSING VLAHOS MILLIONS

DOLLAR BILL AND THE STUNG

BILL’S ‘FAKE’ MATE A MAN OF MYSTERY

OWNER WARNED RACING BOSSES ABOUT VLAHOS  

BILL VLAHOS FOUND HAVING A PUNT IN NSW COUNTRY PUB


Mr Vlahos’s collapsed racing company BC3 Thoroughbreds was the highest bidder, at $5 million, for the half-brother of Black Caviar, Jimmy, who died suddenly after contracting laminitis last year.

“Not to pooh-pooh Racing Victoria because they have a job to do but, having seen the brief, anything to do with Jimmy I just don’t understand how that’s got to do with me,” Mr Vlahos said.

He denied he had a gambling addiction, stating: “No, I only gamble when I can win.

“I am not allowed to have a punt anymore. I’ve been banned, I’m not allowed to enter a sweepstakes or have a bet.”

In response to reports he was bankrolling parties with two Melbourne strippers while the punters’ club collapsed, he said he had “limited contact with the girls since April and any contact I’ve had my wife has been aware of”.


Bill Vlahos was snapped reading the formguide at a New South Wales country pub last month
Bill Vlahos was snapped reading the formguide at a New South Wales country pub last month. Source: Supplied
    


Mr Vlahos denies he paid the girls any money to accompany him to Dubai and that he only paid for their airfares and accommodation.

“The girls were interested in the (racing) industry as well,” he said.

Mr Vlahos said suggestions his wife, Joanne, may have been involved in the scheme were “rubbish”.

“I do know I haven’t conned or robbed anyone,” Mr Vlahos said.

When it was suggested a court could find otherwise Mr Vlahos replied: “I know I haven’t, the court may find that I have.”

It is understood Mr Vlahos has not given a formal interview to police and his lawyer has been handling inquiries from the force.

“I think what is going to come out of this is: This guy is a f**king idiot. He did all this and didn’t make money,” Mr Vlahos said.

“I haven’t robbed or conned anybody, absolutely not.”

He said he had concerns for the safety of his wife Joanne and his two primary age children.

“I accept that people have lost money. There are a lot of people that have made a heap of money as well not putting their hands up and are not being seen to be part of the story. In fact more people made money than lost money.

“But at the same time I wouldn’t want to portray myself as a martyr or as a victim despite the fact that there’s some serious fears for me and my family at the moment.”

“The funds that I’m accessing are funds that we’re borrowing from family ... Joanne is one of a number of children in her family. All the siblings are helping. So that’s where we are day to day ... I haven’t got a stash of money,” he said.

“I know what it’s like not to have money now because that’s the situation of my family.”

THE BIG QUESTIONS  



Q: How did we get here?

A: “From my perspective it’s as much as shock as for anyone else. I don’t have any more intimate knowledge about how we got here than anyone else other than that I feel like I’ve lost money as well and I’m trying to find the answers.”

Q: What is your message for the people who lost?

A:“I don’t know if I’ve got a message at the moment because I’m not sure of all the facts yet and what’s happened and whether the money is there and who’s responsible.”

Q:Are you going to hang around to face the music?

A:“Absolutely, hopefully there is no music to face because our investigations find what we need to and its honky dory but as I’ve said I’ve come back from overseas when I was halfway across the world and we’ve stayed in this jurisdiction.”

Q: Worse case scenario, have you started preparing yourself for serving a jail term?

A: “I worry about that (jail), I worry about staying alive, I worry about finding Daniel, I worry about kids, I worry about my family staying together, I worry about paying my lawyer, I worry about a lot of things…the worst case scenario doesn’t occupy my thoughts more than those.”

Q: Has there been any close calls with thugs you’re hiding from?

A: “(On one incident) My wife was there so that was a pretty scary moment, and I wasn’t. They threatened her and this is why we decided that we were going to pack up the farmhouse and move all our stuff out when I ran into the people that were there. And they’ve been around to our residence and kicked the front door in.”

Q: What do you say to people who say Daniel Maxwell is not real?

A: This has become such a circus that people have gone into hiding. There are a lot of people that are comfortable for me to be in the hot seat. But there will be people that will meet Daniel soon and other people that would indicate that they’ve met Daniel.

Q: How did you meet Maxwell?

A: Can’t talk about it.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/bill-vlahos-the-man-accused-of-ripping-off-144m-from-punters-breaks-his-silence/story-fni0fee2-1226847453900?sv=16d49a34059572ad698f22e1d3c896de

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2014-Mar-07, 07:20 PM Reply #193 »

In response to reports he was bankrolling parties with two Melbourne strippers while the punters’ club collapsed, he said he had “limited contact with the girls since April and any contact I’ve had my wife has been aware of”.

Mr Vlahos denies he paid the girls any money to accompany him to Dubai and that he only paid for their airfares and accommodation.

“The girls were interested in the (racing) industry as well,” he said.


  :lol:    :lol:

When is the underbelly TV special coming out? Be plenty of tits and bums I reckon.

Online jfc

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« 2014-Dec-22, 05:23 AM Reply #194 »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2014-Dec-22, 08:41 AM Reply #195 »
Crikey.....Mr White goes after members who got some "winnings".....Good Luck with that old chum. :o

Mr White said he would pursue some members who had taken more than $40 million in winnings as he tries to claw back money for Vlahos’s creditors.

Offline Jims Punting

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« 2014-Dec-22, 09:15 AM Reply #196 »
Crikey.....Mr White goes after members who got some "winnings".....Good Luck with that old chum. :o

Mr White said he would pursue some members who had taken more than $40 million in winnings as he tries to claw back money for Vlahos’s creditors.
I doubt they could legally even request the return of that money.

They paid up and they received their winnings.

End of story. A lot of water has gone under the bridge.
They would need to pinpoint the exact time the train jumped the tracks before pursuing members for winnings.

I'm not giving mine back  :rant:

Offline Lert

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« 2014-Dec-22, 09:29 AM Reply #197 »
There are all sorts of rules covering the recovery of disbursements made from organisations that go bust.
They are there to cover the situation where a business might give favourable treatment to one creditor over another.
It frequently happens when an organisation is becoming insolvent that family members, friends, special associates, etc get paid some time before the balloon goes up.
Then employees, secured creditors and others with stronger claims on the funds miss out.
The laws are there to ensure that those disbursements can be recovered and redistributed to creditors in accordance with the rules governing such things.
Good thing too!

Offline Jims Punting

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« 2014-Dec-22, 10:04 AM Reply #198 »
Lert, isn't there a 6 months look-back period?

Might be different in business.

I know that when considering people for benefits, and Centrelink is looking at assets, they can go back 6 months to check (and recall/include the value of) disbursements to family, if it is suspected the disbursements were done in order to qualify for benefits.

Found that out when my late father had sold his house and was looking at placement, when too infirm to be cared for at home.

As it turned out the question didn't arise, as vet Affairs funded respite for him on an occasional basis.

Online jfc

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« 2014-Dec-22, 12:01 PM Reply #199 »
This Vlahos scheme is reminiscent of the Ponzi handiwork from Michael Bastion.

This article is a good summary of Bastion's achievements in depriving many racing identities of get fornicated money.

But what it neglects to address is his connection with Bob Hawke in the ghastly VITAB fraud.

And then further Pacific ventures before he rapidly plummeted to Earth.

As Pete Seeger prematurely assessed the Crimean situation:

When will they ever learn!


http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/Highflyer-was-just-another-con-man/2004/12/05/1102182154865.html

file:///C:/temp/Fossen.pdf



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