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Author Topic: Bill Vlahos - Psychology of Punting  (Read 125973 times)

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Offline Authorized

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« 2013-Dec-10, 10:56 AM Reply #25 »
Just listening to this now - Racing Ahead: Racing Victoria's GM Integrity Dayle Brown joined Shane Anderson to discuss Bill #Vlahos & BC3 Thoroughbreds

http://www.rsn.net.au/audioplayer/1386632663.mp3

Offline triple7

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« 2013-Dec-10, 12:22 PM Reply #26 »
I reckon the "extent of their betting" is complete fabrication. Vlahos its claimed was telling members post race days that on selected races they'd bet upwards of $150k to $200k on each race on given race days (with $20k to $50k bets across 2 to 4 chances in given races). Pray tell where any overseas agent is going to be able to place such fanciful bets.

Some have now also disclosed that Vlahos was not interested in new members who had any knowledge about Racing. Clearly he prayed on uninformed victims. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge of the industry and betting would have shot this down quickly. Mind you, any one with an ounce of credibility would have shot this whole thing down quickly. 

Offline VoRogue

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« 2013-Dec-10, 12:34 PM Reply #27 »
What role does/did Simon Marshall have in this BC3 thing ?

Offline Draven39

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« 2013-Dec-10, 01:46 PM Reply #28 »
Some have now also disclosed that Vlahos was not interested in new members who had any knowledge about Racing. Clearly he prayed on uninformed victims. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge of the industry and betting would have shot this down quickly. Mind you, any one with an ounce of credibility would have shot this whole thing down quickly. 

Exactly.

I mean, the first rule of this punters club was that it was not to be discussed. So nothing in writing, no contracts, you are not to talk about it, but it will give you a 25% return...

I have no empathy for people who fall for shit like this. Either they are that greedy, or that stupid, or both.

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Dec-10, 04:00 PM Reply #29 »
Vo,

I thought I would do the neighbourly thing and paste Simon's role statement directly from the BC3 website - but it is gone.  The website has been stripped of all information relating to their team overnight. 

From memory Simon's title was "Sales Liaison"

Offline machelli

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« 2013-Dec-10, 04:23 PM Reply #30 »
The BC3 team details are still visible at http://bc3.com/staff (at least they were for me). I think just the links have been removed from the homepage.

Offline Knuckle

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« 2013-Dec-10, 05:12 PM Reply #31 »
Just saw  the news and it seems that the "secret punting club" had every man and their dog in it. People "allegedly" put their life savings in there. Your  :censored:ing kidding me right? I can understand a bit of cash for a bit of a roll of the dice, but your life savings?  Crazy.......

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Dec-10, 05:20 PM Reply #32 »
The BC3 team details are still visible at http://bc3.com/staff (at least they were for me). I think just the links have been removed from the homepage.

Correct.  The information has been made inaccessible from the homepage.  They were there on Sunday (according to my history)

Simon's title is 'Sales and Industry Liaison Manager'



Offline Gintara

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« 2013-Dec-10, 05:44 PM Reply #33 »


Punting, punters and corperates have absolutely nothing to do with the Racing Industry.




Where's is that thread for the silliest comments from Auth.?


Offline Authorized

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« 2013-Dec-10, 07:26 PM Reply #34 »
Where's is that thread for the silliest comments from Auth.?



I was looking for it the other day.

I was not smart enough to find it.

Offline Knuckle

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« 2013-Dec-10, 10:48 PM Reply #35 »
« Last Edit: 2013-Dec-10, 10:53 PM by Knuckle »

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2013-Dec-11, 07:47 AM Reply #36 »
I know this forum is Queensland based and has a lot of banana benders on the forum, but south of the Tweed River , The Edge / BC3 / Bill Vhalos / "Jimmy" stories are front page news. To keep all you banana benders up to date you might like to read below...  

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/police-officers-among-members-of-collapsed-punting-club-the-edge/story-fni0fit3-1226780149824?utm_source=Herald%20Sun&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial&net_sub_uid=5111666

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/police-have-task-of-unravelling-puzzling-tale-of-bill-vlahos-and-his-punting-club/story-fni0ffyu-1226780160052


A source close to BC3 Thoroughbreds - the bloodstock and racing arm of the Vlahos enterprises - has told people that "all the paperwork" for the punting club happened to be in the car when it burned. This is terrible luck for someone who has already mislaid, supposedly, $194 million of other people's money.  :lol:

The same source says it was incredibly unlucky that Mr Vlahos visited the Connewarre property on Sunday night - as he hadn't been there for months, and had not told anyone he was coming. It was a 100-1 shot that intruders would fluke catching him there. :shy:

A key witness has told police that the diesel fuel which was used to torch Mr Vlahos's ute on Sunday had not been taken to the property, but was taken from a shed at the Grace Park stables.


It all means a policeman's lot is not a happy one. Especially, in this case, for those who have invested their own savings in the scheme. :chin:

One veteran policeman admitted yesterday he cashed in his long service leave to "invest"and he knows several others who have put in large sums - including one who says he's owed more than $500,000. The policeman resents that he was persuaded against his own better judgment.

« Last Edit: 2013-Dec-11, 08:20 AM by Bubbasmith »

Offline Shogun Lodge

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« 2013-Dec-11, 08:10 AM Reply #37 »
Aaaah the ole police intellect strikes again.
Not the brightest to pull finances to pump in to this.
Bent coppers?
Bent Simon?
Bent Melbourne?
You betcha.
RIP Mr Vlahos.

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2013-Dec-11, 08:18 AM Reply #38 »
Shogun,  Bent Melbourne ? Have you ever heard of Bold Personality / Fine Cotton ?

Offline arthur

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« 2013-Dec-11, 08:48 AM Reply #39 »
Shogun,  Bent Melbourne ? Have you ever heard of Bold Personality / Fine Cotton ?

Bubba . . we've done our time

And weren't the alleged 'masterminds' Mexicans  :chin:

Offline Lert

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« 2013-Dec-11, 08:55 AM Reply #40 »
Shogun,  Bent Melbourne ? Have you ever heard of Bold Personality / Fine Cotton ?
Might have happened in Brizzie, but was organised by a well known Sydney based push, I believe.
The Sydney based ex-convict, Robbie Waterhouse, did gaol time over the affair and with father, Bill, was warned off all racetracks for life.

Offline Knuckle

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« 2013-Dec-11, 08:56 AM Reply #41 »
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Once a crook???...............

I smell the next underbelly movie.  :thumbsup:


Offline Authorized

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« 2013-Dec-11, 08:57 AM Reply #42 »
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Once a crook???...............

I smell the next underbelly movie.  :thumbsup:



And you watch racing people jump up and down and tell us how badly racing has been portrayed.

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2013-Dec-11, 09:12 AM Reply #43 »
This Ponzi Scheme has been tried before on so called betting profits.Here is a blast from the past. Note how the Queensland economy benefited from his ill gotten gains  :biggrin:   :biggrin:

http://www.luxurycruiser.com.au/luxury-cruiser-news/1995/2/22/15year-term-ends-talias-life-of-luxury/
« Last Edit: 2013-Dec-11, 09:14 AM by Bubbasmith »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2013-Dec-11, 09:28 AM Reply #44 »
Bill reckons the punters have got more in dividends than they invested...and that there's a money trail from their account to his account to the punters club...nothing to worry about. :whistle:

Anyone expecting a dividend of 25% on a speculative investment has unrealistic expectations. :o


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/police-officers-among-members-of-collapsed-punting-club-the-edge/story-fni0fit3-1226780149824?utm_source=Herald%20Sun&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial&net_sub_uid=6442941

Offline Knuckle

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« 2013-Dec-11, 09:48 AM Reply #45 »
This Ponzi Scheme has been tried before on so called betting profits.Here is a blast from the past. Note how the Queensland economy benefited from his ill gotten gains   :biggrin:     :biggrin:  

http://www.luxurycruiser.com.au/luxury-cruiser-news/1995/2/22/15year-term-ends-talias-life-of-luxury/

Just change the name and the amounts and fast forward to 2013, and it's almost a carbon copy of circumstances and charactoristics.

Offline Knuckle

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« 2013-Dec-11, 09:55 AM Reply #46 »
And you watch racing people jump up and down and tell us how badly racing has been portrayed.

Form what I understand, a lot of racing has been cleaned up , but where ever there is big money , gambling fame etc involved , there will always be the rogue element. There are plenty of dodgey business going on in racing, just this one has really captured the headlines.
Let's not forget that there are plenty of people in the industry who do the right thing too.

I'm just amazed about the size of this whole scheme.

Offline monologue

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« 2013-Dec-11, 10:21 AM Reply #47 »
Are there or have there ever been "syndicates" that have been successful?
We've seen a heap start up with all guns blazing,then drift off into the sunset, with trainers being owed fees and owners left with nothing but disappointment.

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2013-Dec-11, 10:42 AM Reply #48 »
The odds are against any "punting" or "owners" syndicates.

Punting syndicates because bookies and TABs bet to a percentage their way. TAB 16% , bookies 5% >10%. If you lay odds on the heads, in a coin toss, you will finish up down the drain.

Owners, cannot rely on punting ( see above ). Training fees + capital cost ( purchase price ) far exceed prize money, despite  syndicaters spruicking past wins of those they have previously syndicated.

Winners from racing are the top 10 jockeys & trainers  in each state and of course, those breeders with top sires or proven broodmares.

Once entering any syndicate a person should treat it as a hobby, where they are not in it for a financial return but might form friendships and have a bit of fun. 

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2013-Dec-11, 11:18 AM Reply #49 »

http://www.sportismadeforbetting.com/2013/12/the-vlahosbc3ponzi-scheme-update.html

The Vlahos/BC3/Ponzi scheme update

There's at least one series of Underbelly in this saga - or perhaps there isn't? After revelations earlier in the week that the man behind the multi-million dollar Ponzi scheme Bill Vlahos had been bashed and his ute torched.... it appears that he did it all himself! Very flimsy witness statements and evidence which just doesn't add up....

Police have task of unravelling puzzling tale of Bill Vlahos and his punting club

The house apparently had virtually no furniture in it, Vlahos hadn't been there for months and the 'thugs' just happen to find him there. Plus they managed to find the fuel can in the shed to torch the ute. Not just any fuel can, but the one with diesel in it rather than petrol, because the latter might cause an explosion and injure the person igniting it (cheers to @chyde33 for that tip out of the arsonist's handbook). All the paperwork (if there actually was any) just happened to be in the ute and probably any laptop too.

Investigating journalist Andrew Rule also shed some light on the figures quoted in the various articles - the $194m, or possibly even $500m according to some, is unlikely to have ever existed as such. Investors have put in large sums of money, an average of around $100k has been quoted, and were of the belief that they had increased their investment to at least double the original value, probably higher if they were hooked in early. So the actual cash which has disappeared/been pissed up against the wall buying under-performing horses is probably closer to $70-80m. Even still, that's a ridiculous sum of money considering there was never a prospectus for this scheme, known as 'The Edge', no receipts given...... And key to their recruitment drive - "anyone with a clue about racing was not welcome as a member", i.e. we only target people we think are likely to be sucked in... And the more this goes on, the more it looks like there never actually was a punters' club - no betting, just a big fraud based on money continually coming in from fresh investment.

Bill Vlahos syndicate loses its edge, and punters may lose $500 million

The Age seems to think it's $500m, I'd rather believe Andrew Rule's version of events.

Out-of-luck Craig Cameron left to salvage BC3's smouldering wreck

Craig Cameron left his job as General Manager of Football at Richmond FC to step back from the stress of AFL football and indulge in his love of racing. Now he has to deal with the aftermath of BC3.

And all of this basically says that it has very little to do with racing. A syndication company (which actually wasn't licensed) has gone bust, but that should be an ASIC matter and the punting syndicate/Ponzi scheme scam is a fraud matter for the police. Racing is just the vehicle which has been associated with it - there is very little Racing Victoria can do, bar ensure they have tighter controls on who they let operate in the industry as syndicators and to make big waves with advertising and self-promotion within the industry media.



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