Farnan Farce..what was that? - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK   harm-plan

Racehorse TALK



Farnan Farce..what was that? - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Farnan Farce..what was that?  (Read 865 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Shogun Lodge

  • Group 2
  • User 352
  • Posts: 3710
O.P. « 2020-Sep-12, 03:20 PM »
Can stewards fire in a protest, or at least question what Bowman just did?
That was ridiculous.

Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12818
« 2020-Sep-12, 04:22 PM Reply #1 »
The clock in his head must have been running a little fast  :shutup:  :dry:

Online PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 22454
« 2020-Sep-12, 04:30 PM Reply #2 »
Sectional were given as

Time: 1:08.52 Last 600m: 0:34.31

That means first 600m in 34.21

Didn't warrant that capitulation though IMO.

Bowman overestimating the horse perhaps?

Offline ratsack

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 327
  • Posts: 11105
« 2020-Sep-12, 07:18 PM Reply #3 »
Stewards

RACE 6: De Bortoli Wines Run To The Rose 1200m (Group 2):
Farnan – An inquiry was opened into the tactics adopted on the colt and in particular the fast pace set throughout
the early stages of the event. Rider H Bowman stated he was issued with no specific instructions however the
stable had expected the colt to either lead or race outside the other on pace runner Rothfire. Rider H Bowman
stated that in the early stages when he was positioned outside Rothfire he observed its rider J Byrne not showing
a positive intention to hold the lead and he therefore elected to ride Farnan forward to lead. He stated that after
riding his mount in this manner Farnan commenced to race keenly and took charge which resulted in the colt
setting very fast early sectionals (1000m to the 800m 10.34, 800m to 600m 10.88). Co-trainer Mr A Bott confirmed
the nature of the instructions and advised there was no requirement for the colt to hold the lead. The inquiry was
adjourned to a date to be fixed so Stewards could consider the evidence provided. A post-race veterinary
examination revealed the colt to be slow to recover.


 :/

Offline ratsack

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 327
  • Posts: 11105
« 2020-Sep-12, 07:21 PM Reply #4 »
i thought he would of used the tongue over the bit ? excuse 


Offline gunbower

  • Group 2
  • User 2463
  • Posts: 1058
« 2020-Sep-12, 08:15 PM Reply #5 »
Old Fashioned description-not there

Offline Shogun Lodge

  • Group 2
  • User 352
  • Posts: 3710
« 2020-Sep-12, 08:56 PM Reply #6 »
Both of Bowman's excuses are nonsense....I saw no attempt to restrain or slow the horse..
Still my eyes are poor these days!
Did not know you had to show intent to lead?
He could have sat off the leader easy.

Offline Shogun Lodge

  • Group 2
  • User 352
  • Posts: 3710
« 2020-Sep-12, 09:01 PM Reply #7 »
'Instinctive Move'
This will be the name of his first horse as a trainer, circa 2027, a grandson of Winx.
https://www.racenet.com.au/news/chief-steward-to-hugh-bowman-that-s-as-aggressive-as-i-ve-seen-you-on-a-horse-20200912

Online PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 22454
« 2020-Sep-12, 09:10 PM Reply #8 »
Didn't help that the horse's price blew like a gale.

I was surprised that he came up black odds actually. The way he was winning those trials suggested he was ready to slay them.

Out from 2nd favourite to 5th line of betting for The Everest.



And while Rothfire's superb winning performance was noted by all, another significant talking point following the Run to the Rose was the ride of Hugh Bowman aboard beaten favourite Farnan.

Bowman drove Farnan into the lead, running a 21.2-second split between the 1000 and 600-metre marks before last season's Golden Slipper winner faded into fifth, beaten 3.8 lengths.

"I dug him to lead, he didn't settle as well as I would have liked in front," Bowman said.

"If I had my time again I might not have led. I think the horse performed well under the circumstances."

Byrne conceded post-race he was surprised by Bowman's tactics: "I thought if I could set up a decent tempo that Hughie (Farnan) may back off but that wasn't the case. They were pretty determined to want to lead."


https://www.racing.com/news/2020-09-12/review-sydney-wrap-12920#/

Offline Dave

  • Group 2
  • User 2322
  • Posts: 1158
« 2020-Sep-15, 01:02 PM Reply #9 »
What surprised me was that Farnan had to be pushed just to keep up with Rothfire in the first 50/100 metres, that means Rothfire is the better type, The surprising part is Farnan Cost a $Million+ and Rothfire was $10grand
Rothfire could have easily held Farnan out if Byrne had so desired, that was point one
Point 2 is Haut Brion Her ran comparable sectionals (First 600 in 34.47, compared to Farnan's $34.21)but kept going, Sweet Deal also ran the same sectionals and yet no one is questioning Nash or J Mac?....it's more about what the eye said, not what the facts said
Back to Point one, If Farnan was as good a type as Rothfire he would have cruised to the lead without Hughie needing to fire him up, he then would have settled better, fitness counts at the end of a Race but Type counts at the start in sprints, it's not the be all, end all but that is important to understand
As an Example take the Haut Brion Her/Sweet Deal clash, while they both appeared to be doing the same work on the Clock, Haut Brion Her was not working anywhere near as hard as Sweet Deal.....it would be like any normal man running as fast as he could and Usain Bolt jogging alongside him
That is why HBH had a kick at the end while Sweet Deal was a spent force even though she technically should have been the fitter of the two(and she is a very good mare but I am pretty sure HBH is "special")
Farnan is a Good horse but maybe he is still the same horse he was a 2 year old while all the other babies have grown up, sure he went fast but he should have stuck on better than he did
Point 3 he has only won 2 from 4 on good tracks, his 2 wins were at Canberra and Wyong, would have been in the betting just based on his good track form?? I doubt it! whereas he is 3/3 on soft tracks including a Golden Slipper....maybe he is a wet tracker...or at least goes a lot better when the tracks are soft
NOT Bowman's fault! Anyone who backed Farnan was at fault for not doing their form properly....as they say a bad workman blames his tools.......Racing/horses are a lot more complex than most punters give them credit for, we are always more inclined to look for someone or something to blame than we are inclined to look for answers and learn "Why is it so?"

Offline Shogun Lodge

  • Group 2
  • User 352
  • Posts: 3710
« 2020-Sep-16, 06:42 AM Reply #10 »
Good analysis Dave.
Were the overall times, last 600 times comparable as well?
If so, you is right.

Online Brian Mc

  • Group 2
  • User 337
  • Posts: 2321
« 2020-Sep-16, 08:04 AM Reply #11 »
Good analysis Dave.


I'd go further; one of the best analyses I have seen for many a long day.

Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12818
« 2020-Sep-16, 08:07 AM Reply #12 »

Farnan is a Good horse but maybe he is still the same horse he was a 2 year old while all the other babies have grown up,

I did hear the other day that a lot of the mounting yard watchers said exactly that. He presented like he did as a 2 year old, whilst the rest had all grown.

Offline Arsenal

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 194
  • Posts: 16884
« 2020-Sep-16, 09:49 AM Reply #13 »
Racing NSW Stewards To Resume Farnan Inquiry

Racing NSW Stewards have scheduled the resumption of the inquiry into Hugh Bowman’s riding of Farnan in the Run To The Rose at Rosehill Gardens last Saturday (12th September) for 2pm on Thursday, 17 September 2020 at the offices of Racing NSW.

Jockey Hugh Bowman and co-trainer Adrian Bott have been requested to attend.

What's the likely outcome ?.......no charges or penalty likely would be my guess ..it's only a guess but going on precedents the explanation is highly likely to be accepted IMO.

Giddy Up :beer:


Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12818
« 2020-Sep-16, 01:20 PM Reply #14 »
Racing NSW Stewards To Resume Farnan Inquiry


What's the likely outcome ?.......no charges or penalty likely would be my guess ..it's only a guess but going on precedents the explanation is highly likely to be accepted IMO.

Giddy Up :beer:


If that's the case why not just hold at Warwick Farm today and wrap it up in 20mins?

Calling it to RNSW headquarters says there might be more to play  :chin:

Offline winner

  • Group 1
  • User 415
  • Posts: 12651
« 2020-Sep-17, 08:49 AM Reply #15 »
What surprised me was that Farnan had to be pushed just to keep up with Rothfire in the first 50/100 metres, that means Rothfire is the better type, The surprising part is Farnan Cost a $Million+ and Rothfire was $10grand
Rothfire could have easily held Farnan out if Byrne had so desired, that was point one
Point 2 is Haut Brion Her ran comparable sectionals (First 600 in 34.47, compared to Farnan's $34.21)but kept going, Sweet Deal also ran the same sectionals and yet no one is questioning Nash or J Mac?....it's more about what the eye said, not what the facts said
Back to Point one, If Farnan was as good a type as Rothfire he would have cruised to the lead without Hughie needing to fire him up, he then would have settled better, fitness counts at the end of a Race but Type counts at the start in sprints, it's not the be all, end all but that is important to understand
As an Example take the Haut Brion Her/Sweet Deal clash, while they both appeared to be doing the same work on the Clock, Haut Brion Her was not working anywhere near as hard as Sweet Deal.....it would be like any normal man running as fast as he could and Usain Bolt jogging alongside him
That is why HBH had a kick at the end while Sweet Deal was a spent force even though she technically should have been the fitter of the two(and she is a very good mare but I am pretty sure HBH is "special")
Farnan is a Good horse but maybe he is still the same horse he was a 2 year old while all the other babies have grown up, sure he went fast but he should have stuck on better than he did
Point 3 he has only won 2 from 4 on good tracks, his 2 wins were at Canberra and Wyong, would have been in the betting just based on his good track form?? I doubt it! whereas he is 3/3 on soft tracks including a Golden Slipper....maybe he is a wet tracker...or at least goes a lot better when the tracks are soft
NOT Bowman's fault! Anyone who backed Farnan was at fault for not doing their form properly....as they say a bad workman blames his tools.......Racing/horses are a lot more complex than most punters give them credit for, we are always more inclined to look for someone or something to blame than we are inclined to look for answers and learn "Why is it so?"

Nice post rothfire was also absolutely flying in training before Saturday.

Offline Arsenal

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 194
  • Posts: 16884
« 2020-Sep-17, 07:50 PM Reply #16 »
Bowman’s spring takes hit with latest ban
Bowman’s spring takes hit with latest ban
Hugh Bowman led on Farnan before fading to fifth in Run To The Rose. Photo: Mark Evans/Getty Images
Mitch Cohen
Article Author
Mitch Cohen
4:23PM17 September 2020

Hall Of Fame jockey Hugh Bowman’s spring carnival aspirations took a massive hit after he was suspended for 20 days for his ride on Farnan at Rosehill last Saturday.

Racing NSW stewards found Bowman guilty of a “running and handling” charge at a lengthy hearing on Thursday into his ride on the Golden Slipper winner in the Run To The Rose.

Bowman confirmed immediately after the decision he would lodge an appeal against the ruling.

The charge states “a rider must take all reasonable and permissible measures throughout the race to ensure that the rider’s horse is given full opportunity to win or to obtain the best possible place in the field”.

Farnan led the field up in the Group 2 feature before getting a stitch in the straight, finishing fifth, as Queensland star Rothfire surged by.

It came on Bowman’s first day back in the saddle from a six-week ban for his role in the Hot ‘N’ Hazy fall at the end of July.

2020 Golden Slipper Day

Hugh Bowman combined with Farnan to win the Golden Slipper. Pictu Getty Images

If Bowman is unable to overturn the decision he will be suspended from Sunday, September 27 and will be free to ride again on The Everest day on October 17.

It would mean he’d miss four Group 1s – the Epsom Handicap, The Metropolitan, Flight Stakes and Spring Champion Stakes but the chance to play a part in Sydney’s $15 million showpiece remains on the table.

Bowman had pleaded not guilty to the charge after stewards took issue with Bowman’s vigorous riding from the barriers to the 400m mark.

Chief steward Marc Van Gestel labelled the ride “as aggressive as I’ve seen you on a horse out of the gates” on raceday and picked up the same line of questioning on Thursday when producing data of the run from the Daily Sectionals website.

The data indicated Farnan had run 12.8 lengths faster than the average from the 1200 to 400m mark.

In comparison, Haut Brion Her ran 9.8 lengths above average during the same section of the race when winning over 1200m later on the card.

Bowman was adamant the data didn’t take into account the horse’s racing manners during the race.

“What can’t be determined despite all the mathematical genius is how the horse is travelling underneath me,” Bowman said.

Earlier in the inquiry Bowman said he made an early decision to take the lead while admitting he didn’t mean to go that fast early but wondered in hindsight if Farnan would have won the race.

“He probably wouldn‘t have beaten Rothfire in all seriousness but had he come back a length and relaxed for me, it wouldn’t have looked so bad,“ Bowman said.

“I am doing my best to steady him and relax him and slow him back.

“If I start to fight him to slow him down it‘s not going to help him finish the race off.”

Bowman was adamant he did his best to restrain Farnan without impacting the horse’s rhythm when quizzed by Van Gestel, who felt he should have made more of an attempt to slow Farnan.

Adrian Bott was asked his opinion on the ride and the co-trainer insisted the stable trusted the judgment of Bowman, who had help deliver Tulloch Lodge another Golden Slipper earlier this year.

“We’ve always been guided by Hugh’s judgment in these circumstances,” Bott said.

Bott confirmed Farnan had “pulled up well” from the run and had resumed normal work.

Farnan was a drifting favourite from $2.10 out to $2.40 in the final 30 minutes of betting but stewards attributed the drift to a massive go for rival colt North Pacific.

They ruled out suspicious betting activity.

Related Topics: NSW Stewards
Mitch Cohen
Article Author
ENDS

Stewards Report
https://www.racingnsw.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Bowman-H-Stewards-Report-17-September-2020.pdf

Giddy Up :beer:

« Last Edit: 2020-Sep-17, 07:54 PM by Arsenal »

Offline wily ole dog

  • Group 1
  • User 218
  • Posts: 27706
« 2020-Sep-17, 08:52 PM Reply #17 »
Poor decision by the stewards

Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12818
« 2020-Sep-17, 09:32 PM Reply #18 »
If that's the case why not just hold at Warwick Farm today and wrap it up in 20mins?

Calling it to RNSW headquarters says there might be more to play  :chin:

It was pretty obvious stewards were headed that way.

Poor decision by the stewards

I think I'm with you Wily, ordinary ride but I just not sure it was worthy of 3 weeks, we see terrible rides everyday of the week that don't get outed  :/ just not sure why they singled out this one   :shrug:

Offline Antitab#

  • Group 2
  • User 234
  • Posts: 2169
« 2020-Sep-18, 12:58 AM Reply #19 »
What a farce of a decision.

There were two 1200m races on the program

Overall times 1.08.52 & 1.09.05

First 600        34.21 & 34.47

Last 600       34.31 & 34.58

The Run to the Rose has run 0.26 seconds faster the fist 600 and 0.27 seconds faster the second 600.

What has Bowman done wrong, his horse popped.

The end.
 

Offline Shogun Lodge

  • Group 2
  • User 352
  • Posts: 3710
« 2020-Sep-18, 07:21 AM Reply #20 »
With all these figures getting quoted, two points to make...
The first 600 figures still show he went out a couple of lengths harder..
And...the last 600 quoted is leader at 600 and winner...ie not a singular horses measurement....
To fairly assess, we need to look at Farnan's actual time, not the race's quoted last 600...
Still, it seems he has been harshly treated....
Not sure of some of Hugh's rationale however...

Offline nemisis

  • Group 2
  • User 2461
  • Posts: 1168
« 2020-Sep-18, 10:55 AM Reply #21 »
The ride looks real dodgy.
The couple of lengths you mention Shogun are significant.

Whether Farnan is a bit of a wet tracker or a 2 yr old that hasn't progressed is beside the point.
Bowman at no stage let up on the colt and it's clear watching his hands he was pushing him along basically all of the way.......absolutely deliberately!
What ever the motive......either bring down Rothfire or possibly advantage the heavily backed North Pacific.....but it needs to be investigated......huge money involved here.

He has done a bit of team riding before........Who Shot Thebarman in 2018 Hill Stakes comes to mind.
It failed with Egg Tart then and I'd say it failed again here......so I say 'good job'
What team was he riding for here???......that's more the question!

Offline Dave

  • Group 2
  • User 2322
  • Posts: 1158
« 2020-Sep-21, 10:33 AM Reply #22 »
Whether you think it was a good ride or not isn't even relevant, Hughie is one of the best and what makes him one of the best is his split second decisions, he gets them right 99/100
The Stewards are way over stepping their mandate, if they think it was "suspicious" check the betting, Check his phone etc, if there is no evidence of collusion/conspiracy let it go
With the inane rule re tactic changes having to be announced and now Stewards making jockeys scared to make decisions we may as well get used to betting on cartoon races like the TAB are promoting(or at least were the last time I was in a TAB while waiting for my wife to finish shopping) They are making a joke out of racing,
Initiative is the major difference between the great jockeys and the second tier jockeys, Stewards want to kill it....cos that makes their job easier, they have no grasp of "Initiative" They just don't know how to handle it,
Social Media "experts" demanding action are not helping either, never seen one yet who had a clue!
It's bloody disgusting, Stewards (like refs in league) try to be "personalities" ever since Schreck made a fortune out of the Fine Cotton affair, They all try to do it, all looking for their "fine cotton"

Offline Atreus

  • Class3
  • User 2352
  • Posts: 31
« 2020-Sep-21, 08:33 PM Reply #23 »
The stewards are in the right here.  Only issue is that 3 weeks is too light a penalty if a jockey has put in a bad ride like this

The argument comparing the sectionals from both 1200m races on the day is a nonsense as both 1200m races were fast run on the day relative to the other races

Yes Haut Brion Her won R8 after being on pace but Sweet Deal who led has finished 9th as equal 5th to 8th fave.  Jen Rules has run 2nd coming from 10th in the run at 30-1, Seasons has run 3rd coming from 8th at 16-1 while Evalina has run 4th coming from 12th at 80-1.  So the overall race flow of R8 supports the idea of a fast run race where the best spot to be was 8th to 12th in the run

In Farnan's race he went way too fast visually and then you have the 30-1 equal outsider Ole Kirk running 2nd after coming from last in the run

The vision, the sectionals and the race pattern say that R8 was run fast and Farnan's race was run even faster

Stewards totally in the right they just need to up the penalty

Offline ratsack

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 327
  • Posts: 11105
« 2020-Sep-21, 09:23 PM Reply #24 »
The stewards are in the right here.  Only issue is that 3 weeks is too light a penalty if a jockey has put in a bad ride like this

The argument comparing the sectionals from both 1200m races on the day is a nonsense as both 1200m races were fast run on the day relative to the other races

Yes Haut Brion Her won R8 after being on pace but Sweet Deal who led has finished 9th as equal 5th to 8th fave.  Jen Rules has run 2nd coming from 10th in the run at 30-1, Seasons has run 3rd coming from 8th at 16-1 while Evalina has run 4th coming from 12th at 80-1.  So the overall race flow of R8 supports the idea of a fast run race where the best spot to be was 8th to 12th in the run

In Farnan's race he went way too fast visually and then you have the 30-1 equal outsider Ole Kirk running 2nd after coming from last in the run

The vision, the sectionals and the race pattern say that R8 was run fast and Farnan's race was run even faster

Stewards totally in the right they just need to up the penalty

Hugh is struggling at the moment , benefit of the doubt for mine

As for Ole Kirk

i will be backing him and backing him for this prep , typical Hawkes team .
take your time for a slow maturing horse.
pissed off that i didn't back him in this race (no 3rd div made the diff)


BACK TO ALL TOPICS
Sitemap