FOUR CORNERS HAS A RUN AT RACING - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK harm-plan

Racehorse TALK



FOUR CORNERS HAS A RUN AT RACING - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: FOUR CORNERS HAS A RUN AT RACING  (Read 3861 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 19863
« 2018-Jul-10, 10:18 AM Reply #25 »
  .........and Giles Thompson didn't present as a forthright and credible spokesperson for the racing industry......his response to legitimate questions was cringe worthy.......and  not being able to identify who inside RV was leaking information to the unidentified trainer on horses to be swabbed....what a cop out ...he's less than useless.....

Giddy Up :beer:


The only times I've heard him in public he's saying something along the lines of "There is an integrity problem in Victorian racing and I am here to fix it".  I don't hear much else like any vision or future plan or stuff like that.

Offline Peter Mair

  • Group 2
  • User 326
  • Posts: 4177
« 2018-Jul-10, 10:31 AM Reply #26 »

RVL lost the plot once Rob Hines left.

Online jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 6407
« 2018-Jul-10, 10:38 AM Reply #27 »
I found it a good and balanced report.

The industry has massive problems and V'landys' solutions are just making it worse.

Shafting punters and wasting more public money that ends up with fat cats and Zeljko is not the answer.

The only thing that will work is to slowly downsize it.

Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12069
« 2018-Jul-10, 12:02 PM Reply #28 »
One wonders if our governments will rush to condemn the racing industry like they did with the greyhound industry  :shutup:

We all know the answer to that though don't we  :dry: :wacko:

I've recorded it but not watched it yet.

By all reports I see floating around it's exactly as suggested. Nothing more than a gentle tap on the shoulder / fluff piece.

The hypocrisy is mind blowing from the ABC and from the governments involved.  :mad:

Offline Peter Mair

  • Group 2
  • User 326
  • Posts: 4177
« 2018-Jul-10, 12:55 PM Reply #29 »


Governments are major players -- the ABC is not.

The ABC would be better advised to expose the waste of public funds on a racing industry now so bloated nationally as to be an embarrassment demanding federal intervention.

Most race meetings do not have the betting turnover and funding take to cover the costs of staging 'dead loss' meetings.

The management of the racing industry has degenerated into state-based de-facto cartels -- an unholy alliance of racing administrators playing into the hands of corporate bookmakers betting fixed odds on rough racing and state governments filling the coffers of rural race clubs with 'off budget' subsidies funded from the government regulated 'tax take'. 

One interesting story line was the disadvantage to country trainers -- not least raising country prize money to levels inviting city trainers to knock it off. The long extolled virtue of country racing has state governments of both stripes locked into supporting it but hoping to dismount.

The idea that country race meetings generally are the social hub of country towns is now redundant nostalgia.

There is much about racing that deserves exposure -- the ABC not knowing what was led down the familiar path of 'corruption' without ever saying the Aquanita runners never tested positive.


Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 19863
« 2018-Jul-10, 01:12 PM Reply #30 »
I've recorded it but not watched it yet.

By all reports I see floating around it's exactly as suggested. Nothing more than a gentle tap on the shoulder / fluff piece.

The hypocrisy is mind blowing from the ABC and from the governments involved.  :mad:

I haven't watched it either (and I haven't recorded anything for years Gin - will watch on iView  :) )

But it is getting to be a bit of a yawn. Won't hurry after reading some of the feedback.

The media in their thirst for sensationalist, alarmist stories don't really care if they bring down a whole industry like they nearly did with greyhounds.

They will get the sound technician to add some creepy music in the background while they grossly overstate something to the point what they say is bordering on a lie.

ABC lost all investigative credibility after Greyhounds.

Offline bascoe

  • Open
  • User 2568
  • Posts: 119
« 2018-Jul-10, 01:43 PM Reply #31 »
Agree with jfc - it was pretty modest, and not too hyperbolic.

Racing Victoria CEO looked pretty hapless - plenty of tap dancing and wriggled out of the tetchy questions.

More amazing is that neither the SMH or DT even mentioned today that Four Corners even ran a show on racing.

Now I guess both those newspapers are leveraged right into racing, but the way they launched into the dogs shows you can back self interest every time - it is always trying.

Where is the pressure on Horse Breeders to follow the greyhound lead - birth to death monitoring?  That leads to tighter breeding, and less wastage. 

As the RSPCA spokesperson noted, the knackery is kinder that horses starving and neglected in a remote paddock.


Offline Arsenal

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 194
  • Posts: 14844
« 2018-Jul-10, 07:31 PM Reply #32 »
Terry Bailey I did it my way....he responds to the 4 Corners program ....not very convincing IMO "can't recall being told .....but admits there were rumours"

 
Terry Bailey denies Four Corners claims
Posted by: Michael Nicholls+ at 12:42pm on 10/7/2018
Posted in: Horse Racing News


   
 Terry Bailey has denied being tipped off about the Aquanita scandal

Outgoing Racing Victoria chief steward Terry Bailey has denied he had earlier received information regarding the suspicions surrounding Robert Smerdon’s Aquanita stables.

Speaking an Monday’s Four Corners program, Flemington trainer Mather Ellerton said that he had raised concerns with stewards about ‘strange activities’ and possible race-day treatments made by Aquanita employees.

“If he did (inform stewards) I don’t recall the conversation personally unless he spoke to one of the other team,” Bailey told RSN on Tuesday.

“Mr Ellerton is a great trainer and I have great respect for him and he plays with a straight bat. As far as the rumours, we’d all heard the rumours. It was a matter of having the evidence and we eventually got that.”

“We had measures in place for a long time with Aquanita. I must admit it was brazen what they were doing at the track but we certainly weren’t sitting on our hands.”

“We knew the rumours and we were doing our best to get the evidence we needed. It has been shown in the past that unless you catch them red-handed, it can be pretty hard to prove.”

The Four Corners program on ABC also raised the question as to why Robert Smerdon’s phone was given back to the disgraced trainer before it could be forensically examined.

Terry Bailey conceded that he ‘maybe’ made a mistake giving the mobile phone back to Smerdon.

“Maybe we should have (confiscated the phone), in hindsight,” Bailey said.

“Knowing what we subsequently knew after Mr Nelligan’s phone was imaged, I don’t think anyone in their wildest dreams would have expected what came up on his phone.”

Bailey, who leaves Racing Victoria this week to take up the job as chairman of stewards in Singapore, claimed that the industry is cleaner than it was a decade ago.

“Racing’s cleaner that it was 10 years ago, it is cleaner than it was five years ago and even 12 months ago,” he said. “Yes, we are getting better at stamping illegal practices out.
“I’ve seen most integrity measures around the world during my time in Victoria and I can assure you, ours is world class.”ENDS

Giddy Up :beer:


Offline ratsack

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 327
  • Posts: 10213
« 2018-Jul-10, 08:23 PM Reply #33 »

Governments are major players -- the ABC is not.



Most race meetings do not have the betting turnover and funding take to cover the costs of staging 'dead loss' meetings.

The management of the racing industry has degenerated into state-based de-facto cartels -- an unholy alliance of racing administrators playing into the hands of corporate bookmakers betting fixed odds on rough racing and state governments filling the coffers of rural race clubs with 'off budget' subsidies funded from the government regulated 'tax take'. 

One interesting story line was the disadvantage to country trainers -- not least raising country prize money to levels inviting city trainers to knock it off. The long extolled virtue of country racing has state governments of both stripes locked into supporting it but hoping to dismount.

The idea that country race meetings generally are the social hub of country towns is now redundant nostalgia.

How much money does the racing industry produce for the Gov ?
How much does the Gov give back ?
You have know idea
if the industry was a negative why would the Gov persist ?
You have no idea really

Offline Peter Mair

  • Group 2
  • User 326
  • Posts: 4177
« 2018-Jul-10, 08:45 PM Reply #34 »


State governments hold the gun that takes funds from betting turnover -- unlike other taxes that 'take' is given directly to state racing administrators to 'fund racing'.

There is no 'cost-benefit' assessment of the funding of rural racing.

Governments persist in funding rural racing for political purposes -- the 'take' from most rural race meetings does not cover costs and prize money of staging 'dead loss' racing.

Taxes raised from city punters are spent directly 'off budget' on subsidizing rural racing (buying rural votes)  -- that is why 'state governments persist'.



Offline ratsack

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 327
  • Posts: 10213
« 2018-Jul-10, 09:04 PM Reply #35 »

Taxes raised from city punters are spent directly 'off budget' on subsidizing rural racing (buying rural votes)  -- that is why 'state governments persist'.

Sweet
I live in the hunter ,all taxes raised from mining will stay in the hunter , you $#@ken beauty

Sydney et all can fund themselves 

Offline ratsack

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 327
  • Posts: 10213
« 2018-Jul-10, 09:07 PM Reply #36 »
forgot to add
more funds are spent in Western Sydney for what reason ?

votes

Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12069
« 2018-Jul-10, 10:24 PM Reply #37 »
I haven't watched it either (and I haven't recorded anything for years Gin - will watch on iView  :) )

But it is getting to be a bit of a yawn. Won't hurry after reading some of the feedback.

The media in their thirst for sensationalist, alarmist stories don't really care if they bring down a whole industry like they nearly did with greyhounds.

They will get the sound technician to add some creepy music in the background while they grossly overstate something to the point what they say is bordering on a lie.

ABC lost all investigative credibility after Greyhounds.

Ok I hit the red button  :shy:

My whole problem is the hypocrisy.

That myth Steve Coleman from the RSPCA stood there beating his chest at Baird's press conference, prattling on about wastage and his faux outrage all while hiding behind the huge kill rates of the RSPCA.

Yet here we had the RSPCA's Bidda Jones basically shrugging her shoulders saying they don't know where 8000 horses go each year (really?) and that humane euthanasia could be preferable! :wtf:

The exact same thing the greyhound industry was dragged over the coals for in the court of public opinion (and many on this forum) yet this hasn't even raised a blip - not a peep  :shutup:

They used footage of PV at the Thoroughbred breeders meeting where he told all and sundry that the greyhounds would be banned, trouble was it was 3 months before the announcement.  It's never been investigated how or why he knew. The whole thing stinks and hence why I handed my ATC membership back (even told them on the survey why too)

My issue here is not the horses (I'm a realist) and I love the sport but when the horses had an issue (EI) who filled the breach? the dogs, who kept the money coming in? the dogs. Yet when the dogs had an issue we had people like PV quick to dance on the grave. The man is a germ  :rant:

This will amount to nothing, it won't even make fish & chip wrapping.  emthdown

Offline wily ole dog

  • Group 1
  • User 218
  • Posts: 25186
« 2018-Jul-11, 07:47 AM Reply #38 »
Sweet
I live in the hunter ,all taxes raised from mining will stay in the hunter , you $#@ken beauty

Sydney et all can fund themselves

Get ready rats, Mair doesn’t want any racing in the Hunter. You can not have that interest in your world or Mairs
 
The blokes an idiot   :lol:

Offline Jeunes

  • VIP Club
  • Group 2
  • User 296
  • Posts: 2287
« 2018-Jul-12, 07:47 PM Reply #39 »
Ok I hit the red button  :shy:

My whole problem is the hypocrisy.

That myth Steve Coleman from the RSPCA stood there beating his chest at Baird's press conference, prattling on about wastage and his faux outrage all while hiding behind the huge kill rates of the RSPCA.

Yet here we had the RSPCA's Bidda Jones basically shrugging her shoulders saying they don't know where 8000 horses go each year (really?) and that humane euthanasia could be preferable! :wtf:

The exact same thing the greyhound industry was dragged over the coals for in the court of public opinion (and many on this forum) yet this hasn't even raised a blip - not a peep  :shutup:

They used footage of PV at the Thoroughbred breeders meeting where he told all and sundry that the greyhounds would be banned, trouble was it was 3 months before the announcement.  It's never been investigated how or why he knew. The whole thing stinks and hence why I handed my ATC membership back (even told them on the survey why too)

My issue here is not the horses (I'm a realist) and I love the sport but when the horses had an issue (EI) who filled the breach? the dogs, who kept the money coming in? the dogs. Yet when the dogs had an issue we had people like PV quick to dance on the grave. The man is a germ  :rant:

This will amount to nothing, it won't even make fish & chip wrapping.  emthdown

It is hypocrisy as the dogs are considered a family pet while the horses are a different story.

Sad story why wastage in all forms of racing needs to be addressed.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/07/12/12/42/greyhounds-found-mass-grave-western-sydney
« Last Edit: 2018-Jul-12, 10:00 PM by Jeunes »

Offline Shogun Lodge

  • Group 2
  • User 352
  • Posts: 2997
« 2018-Jul-14, 09:29 PM Reply #40 »
One week on...no outrage.
10,000 per year go to unknown homes or fates.
Yet no Sunrise or Today show outrage?
Why?

Offline gunbower

  • Group3
  • User 2463
  • Posts: 726
« 2018-Jul-14, 10:22 PM Reply #41 »
It is  a good point Shogun . I think we both know that the major television networks have too much of advertising revenue at stake to push that barrow. Obviously that wasn't a consideration with the "dishlickers ". The other point is that in this day and age your average city dweller may have some emotional attraction with canines but that is hardly the case with horses. I reckon 99 per cent of city kids have never been up close with a horse. So the emotional aspect of their demise is hardly as confronting.

Online jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 6407
« 2018-Jul-15, 08:47 AM Reply #42 »
V'landys was given ample air time to mouth off and demonstrate his warped view of reality.

Increased non-metro prize money has led to city trainers sending horses out there to effectively wipe out the small bush trainers.

There appear to be many solutions to rectify that problem. Why not redistribute that prize money so more of it goes to 5th onward. That would help the locals and make it less attractive to the city raiders as there would be less for the major places.

But V'landys sprouted some malarkey about competitive versus entitlement sport.

Great way to entice young new blood into the industry!

Almost as if he had no problems with country trainers going to the wall!




Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 19863
« 2018-Jul-15, 09:21 AM Reply #43 »

But V'landys sprouted some malarkey about competitive versus entitlement sport.


So the trainer who pays peanuts for a horse and just shows up for the races is entitled to more of the prizemoney on offer than owners who invest heavily?

This was yet another of the falsehoods thrown up by the program i.e. that all country racetracks are affected by invasion from city trainers.

There is a meeting at Grafton today with zero Sydney trainers represented. This is a typical country meeting. In fact the only "country" track it appears to happen on is Bathurst because of it's proximity to Sydney.

Why are the media allowed to project such lies  :what:

When did the rules change whereby if you stand up on your moral high horse you can lie in public because the ends justifies the means? We see this "lying by overstatement" in things like Climate Change. We saw it in the first attempt at getting rid of Greyhounds. We see it with the #metoo movement. We saw something bordering on criminal in the so called "community debate" on pain relief. We see it in the ban on plastic bags from supermarkets.

We will see it in future when they eventually ban petrol cars.

And when the politicians cave into lies by the alarmist social and mainstream media you get bad policy like the banning of all greyhounds in spite of the fact that these are the actions of a few - not the majority.

When you point this logic out the liars then demonize you personally and refuse to debate the matter. Happens on forums like this one all the time.

Online jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 6407
« 2018-Jul-15, 09:41 AM Reply #44 »
"This was yet another of the falsehoods thrown up by the program i.e. that all country racetracks are affected by invasion from city trainers."



Funny how I can't find that lie in the transcript!

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/off-track/9960642

Online jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 6407
« 2018-Jul-15, 11:15 AM Reply #45 »
So the trainer who pays peanuts for a horse and just shows up for the races is entitled to more of the prizemoney on offer than owners who invest heavily?

Certainly a challenge for me to understand the above.

At no stage did I suggest anything resembling "more prize money to locals than city slickers for the same position".

If you reallocate more to minor places at the expense of better places, the city slicker wins precisely the same as the local for any place.

The city one may not care that major prize money is slightly smaller, while that extra minor money might be very handy for the local.

Or the city one may care and stop sending his runners out to the bush. That works out fine as well.

The current situation seems like "rich get richer, poor get poorer and wiped out".

And that should be stopped.


Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 19863
« 2018-Jul-15, 11:37 AM Reply #46 »
Certainly a challenge for me to understand the above.

At no stage did I suggest anything resembling "more prize money to locals than city slickers for the same position".

If you reallocate more to minor places at the expense of better places, the city slicker wins precisely the same as the local for any place.

The city one may not care that major prize money is slightly smaller, while that extra minor money might be very handy for the local.

Or the city one may care and stop sending his runners out to the bush. That works out fine as well.

The current situation seems like "rich get richer, poor get poorer and wiped out".

And that should be stopped.

And how widespread is this problem? (if there is a problem which you only think that if you think slow horses deserve as much prizemoney as fast ones).

Listening to you and the ABC, you'd think it was all over the state.

Where are the city trainers at today's Grafton meeting?

There are a few at tomorrow's Cessnock meeting but they do not dominate.

This is the thing. Anyone can hold up an extreme, non-typical example and say "this is a problem all over the place". We see it here. We see it in Greyhounds being banned. In fact we see it across all aspects of life these days.

Online jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 6407
« 2018-Jul-15, 12:04 PM Reply #47 »
So after I need to go to the trouble of showing up you false claim, you repeat that very same one!

Why would Sydney trainers go to Grafton when Hawkesbury with 50% more prize money is on!

Now if Bathurst is the only area with that problem, then just fix Bathurst and leave the rest alone.

Offline Jeunes

  • VIP Club
  • Group 2
  • User 296
  • Posts: 2287
« 2018-Jul-15, 12:37 PM Reply #48 »
Today cannot be used as an example because of Hawkesbury being on and proximity to Sydney. The more intriguing aspect will be when it is country racing on Sunday with no competition .

You cannot blame city trainers for trying to get prizemoy for their owners regardless where the racing is. The provincial and country have helped the trainers. The more we have of these to augment the major carnivals, the better racing will be overall.

Offline wily ole dog

  • Group 1
  • User 218
  • Posts: 25186
« 2018-Jul-15, 01:03 PM Reply #49 »
RNSW put on a $40k maiden for country trained horses at the Grafton meeting during the week


BACK TO ALL TOPICS
Sitemap