Gear Changes - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK harm-plan

Racehorse TALK



Gear Changes - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Gear Changes  (Read 14341 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31340
O.P. « 2009-Jan-31, 10:34 AM »
Trainers come up with some interesting gear changes at times. The one all punters would like to know about of course is if jockeys are wearing spurs or not but that is not shown in the official gear changes.

One i find very interesting for today is for an unraced 2yo with an awesome pedigree, LEONCAVALLO, He is listed as having a stallion chain on for the first time.

What can horseman tell us about this piece of equipment for racing purposes ?

Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31340
« 2009-Feb-01, 08:15 PM Reply #1 »
What did Corey Brown say about SPURS on TVN this morning ?

Offline equethyws

  • Class6
  • User 116
  • Posts: 81
« 2009-Feb-01, 11:39 PM Reply #2 »
Any form a bitting that creates discomfort is counter productive to speed. 

For a horse to maintain top speed they need to be able to stretch out with their head nearly level with their shoulders.  If you provide them with pain in the mouth then they will just back off, lift their heads high and hollow out their backs which severly limits stride length and slows them down.

Bridles are for communication to the horse they were never designed to be handles for jockeys to swing off.  Horses race at the time when they are loosing all their baby teeth and gaining most of their second teeth so their mouths are very tender anyway at this age.  Anything that makes them head shy will limit their ability.

These bits cause a lot of discomfort and pressure and in heavy hands a lot of pain.  MAJOR PAIN! Bits (all bits) work because they act upon the part of the mouth where there are no teeth so they sit directly upon the thin narrow mandible bars of the jaw. These are tall bony processes  covered with thin skin and there are a lot of nerves there which are also easily damaged.  Their mouths are just as tender as ours are. Many horses develop bone spurs in this part of the mouth from too much bit pressure which feel to the horse like tiny shards of glass when bit pressure is applied to them. 

Often the severe bits are used to control horses whose behavour has begun to be over the top.  Sadly their behavour often reflects the fact that they know they are about to suffer major pain in the race.


Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31340
« 2009-Feb-20, 10:51 PM Reply #3 »
What is the best site on the net to find all the gear changes for a days racing ?

Offline Max Manewer

  • Group 2
  • User 414
  • Posts: 4998
« 2009-Feb-20, 10:58 PM Reply #4 »
Not free, but Dynamic Race Odds has then plus a host of other stuff, couldn't punt without it these days, see all the totes bookies, betfair etc odds on one page. I think you can still get a free 2 day trial. And  a good mob to deal with.

Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31340
« 2009-Feb-20, 11:00 PM Reply #5 »
Cor blimey i just googled em thanks MM http://www.dynamicraceodds.com/ Thats abit out of my league.   :sad:

Offline Max Manewer

  • Group 2
  • User 414
  • Posts: 4998
« 2009-Feb-20, 11:04 PM Reply #6 »
Well worth the cost, and no, I don't have shares in it.  ;)

Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31340
« 2009-Feb-28, 11:47 AM Reply #7 »
SILKYANNA a filly is listed as having a stallion chain on for the first time.

Offline MagiC~*

  • Admin
  • Group 1
  • User 2
  • *****
  • Posts: 14300
« 2009-May-02, 07:53 AM Reply #8 »
Desuetude, has had a one eyed blinker added, a very notable gear change IMHO  :what:

It suggests the horse has been hanging  :chin:

Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31340
« 2009-May-02, 09:55 AM Reply #9 »
I think Desuetude needs to be colted.

Offline D-G

  • Group 2
  • User 425
  • Posts: 4615
« 2009-May-02, 05:03 PM Reply #10 »

.
« Last Edit: 2013-Dec-09, 09:37 PM by DJH »

Offline D-G

  • Group 2
  • User 425
  • Posts: 4615
« 2009-Jun-10, 01:34 PM Reply #11 »
.
« Last Edit: 2013-Dec-09, 09:36 PM by DJH »

Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31340
« 2010-Mar-22, 11:34 PM Reply #12 »
I renew my call for SPURS to be added to the gear changes.

Offline Endangered Spec

  • Open
  • User 856
  • Posts: 151
« 2010-Mar-23, 12:38 AM Reply #13 »
Gees I have been arguing for spurs to be given out as a gear change for years(I must say first that I abhor the use of spurs and think they are much more cruel than the whip use hoo hah but that's another story)
 I was giving Mark Lambourne info for a while re the number of winners I was backing by looking for spurs (missed a lot more though) to help him in his discussions with Ray Murrihy, Both Rawiller brothers Damian Oliver, Luke Nolen are prolific with their use of spurs others I have seen using spurs are Larry Cassidy, Darren Beadman, Chris Munce and many more but none of them know what they are doing cos' Chief Steward told me they don't work?? who would know? gee I think I will go with the Jockeys who use them!!
I remember I queried Murrihy on the Radio once, after him telling me they don't work their next guest was Glen Boss who agreed with Murrihy surprise surprise!! Boss is a great rider but NEVER wears spurs so how would he know?? Why not ask Nash or Damian if they are effective?
Still I give up, think we are flogging the proverbial Dead horse!

Offline MagiC~*

  • Admin
  • Group 1
  • User 2
  • *****
  • Posts: 14300
« 2010-Mar-23, 08:01 AM Reply #14 »
Would be a bit hard to add spurs as a gear change wouldn't it.

Gear changes are made by the trainer, where as the deciscion to wear spurs all comes down to the individual jockey  :what:

Offline richo

  • Group 2
  • User 47
  • Posts: 1783
« 2010-Mar-23, 08:24 AM Reply #15 »
not allways magic i've often told jocks to put a set of hooks on and with some horses not to wear them. they're not much help to jocks that ride short.

Offline MagiC~*

  • Admin
  • Group 1
  • User 2
  • *****
  • Posts: 14300
« 2010-Mar-23, 08:30 AM Reply #16 »
not allways magic i've often told jocks to put a set of hooks on and with some horses not to wear them. they're not much help to jocks that ride short.

Yes Richo,

But my point still being, on most occassions, the jock wears them with out being asked too, Kelvin Wharton is a good example of it, I think he wears them most of the time, so as to be advised of what horses will have spurs used on them, will not be accurately determinable via a gear change  :/

Offline Endangered Spec

  • Open
  • User 856
  • Posts: 151
« 2010-Mar-25, 11:39 PM Reply #17 »
Some jockeys wear them all the time but haven't got a clue when they will work or why they work!! they just see jockeys like Nash and Damian wearing them so try to Copy, I don't think most trainers like most punters even look at a jockeys feet to notice if they are wearing spurs as the ones who don't know why and when(and this is most) don't think they work so they don't care anyway!! it works no matter how short they ride if they know how and when to use them, I don't mean when in the race, I mean on the right horse, like you would not be likely to wear them on a 2 year old as 2 yearolds run on adrenalin and very few it would help(probably more likely make them buck)
I think they should be banned as cruel Jockeys kick their feet out of the irons behind the barrier and dig the horse in the guts with the spurs so the horse knows he has them on.

Offline wordedmeat

  • VIP Club
  • Group3
  • User 216
  • Posts: 660
« 2010-Nov-06, 09:25 AM Reply #18 »
flemington race 1-4 Vatican-blinkers first time and stallion chain first time
anyone tell me what a stallion chain is,sounds scary!

Offline usernametaken

  • Group3
  • User 937
  • Posts: 683
« 2010-Nov-06, 10:22 AM Reply #19 »
Not much to be afraid of Wordedmeat.
it is basically a chain that goes from the lead rope up and over (although it can go under ) the horses nose so that the handler can exert pressure to keep the horse from rearing or playing up.
Works most times, but in the hands of an inexperienced handler can at times be a bit cruel.
Hope that maks some sort of sense.


Offline D-G

  • Group 2
  • User 425
  • Posts: 4615
« 2010-Nov-08, 10:53 AM Reply #20 »
Being currently based in Qld, I can only comment on that state, but the gear change situation is beyond ridiculous!
I have commented on this before and nothing has changed so I will go again before taking it to the next level.
There is absolutely no accuracy being given to punters regarding gear changes.
Yesterday at Caloundra according to the racebook form R1 no.5 English Star was Tongue Tie off, but  at the start of the book where they announce gear changes it was Tongue Tie ON first time?????
The horse raced with a tongue tie.
There are continuous examples of this.
Recently a horse who raced at Ipswich was reported in all publications, including the Qld racing website as Blinkers off after winning at its previous start ??
The horse raced in blinkers  :what:
R3 no.1 yesterday at Caloundra  Makyeah was presented in the racebook as a 4yo B H
If he has testicles I don't!!!
I could list dozens of cases in point where misinformation is given to punters.
Frankly it is driving me crazy and it is simply not good enough!!!!!!!!
I don't know who is to blame, is it RISA, is it Qld Racing, or is it Bolack who print the racebooks?


Regardless someone HAS to be held accountable and the ongoing problems need to be rectified immediately!!!

Offline richo

  • Group 2
  • User 47
  • Posts: 1783
« 2010-Nov-08, 02:01 PM Reply #21 »
not sur djh i had a filly went through the sales as chest/grey by the time she was broken she was grey bordering on white  her stable return she was down as grey but the book said chestnut after her 4th win a steward said to me you better put in a stable return and change it to grey i told him every stable return had said grey so i don't know where the books get their info from and he did get it changed

Offline D-G

  • Group 2
  • User 425
  • Posts: 4615
« 2010-Nov-11, 05:04 PM Reply #22 »
With Ivy League winning yesterday, it brings up another bone of contention with me regarding gear changes.
Officially it was Lugging bit OFF  1st time, Tongue control bit ON.

From my reading of the rules and descriptions, IL was definitley NOT Lugging bit OFF>
YES it was Tongue control bit ON(I assume), BUT it still raced in a "ring bit ,which is classified as a lugging bit albeit with a Tongue control bit added apparently
It was definitely NOT lugging bit OFF!

There is absolutley no accuracy with this particular gear change as some trainers see it my way and some see it BJs way.
The Stewards seem to accept either which is not good enough.
If Lugging Bit ON is worthy of noting as a gear change, the stewards accept there is a difference between a snaffle and a ring bit, yet that doesnt go to the next level when talking TC bits
Punters deserve much better

Offline MagiC~*

  • Admin
  • Group 1
  • User 2
  • *****
  • Posts: 14300
« 2010-Nov-11, 05:47 PM Reply #23 »
BUT it still raced in a "ring bit ,which is classified as a lugging bit albeit with a Tongue control bit added apparently

No not really DJH, a ring bit may aid in stopping a horse from lugging, it really isn't a lugging bit.

The main reason for the ring, is to stop the bit pulling though a horses mouth, and to give better control, not meant, to specifically to stop a horse lugging, even if that is one of the advantages of the bit not pulling through its gob.

A lugging bit, from my experience is a straight bit, with a semi ring physically attached to the bit, or some other harsher type levers attached to the reigns, to force it against the jaw.

Offline richo

  • Group 2
  • User 47
  • Posts: 1783
« 2010-Nov-11, 05:57 PM Reply #24 »
a tongue control bit is shaped like a W and goes on sepsrate to the ring bit , but if you use a healy bit with a tongue control it's like a normal ring bit with a piece off the center which sits back over the tongue  doing the same as a tongue control which stops it getting it's tongue over the bit and choking down. but with the  healey bit unless you seen it before it was put on the horse you would pick it from a normal ring bit.


BACK TO ALL TOPICS
Sitemap