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General Racing History - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: General Racing History  (Read 19051 times)

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Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-07, 01:37 PM Reply #175 »
You show the Cup ranking No1 in terms of prizemoney.

Where does the Everest rank? :

What I'm trying to do is ascertain the rise in prizemoney in 50 years (since 1968).

The Everest is a new race so there is no 1968 data thus it is out of the list and it has no 2018 rating. The highest prizemoney race where I have 1968 data is The Cup  :)

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Oct-07, 04:20 PM Reply #176 »
Interesting figures, PP. Some of those are as you say pretty staggering. The increase in prize-money has far exceeded the increase in average income over the same period although the Epsom and Metropolitan have declined quite a bit in relative prize-money.

Tony Arrold's Racegoer's Handbook from 1978 had a section on the $100,000 races. The first one was the 1971 Melbourne Cup worth $102,000 then the 1972 Perth Cup went from $20,000 the previous year to $100,000.

1973-4 saw the Caulfield Cup, the VRC Derby, the WA Australian Derby, the Golden Slipper, the Doncaster, the Sydney Cup and the Spring Champion Stakes all $100,000 or more.

1974-75 added the AJC Derby, the Epsom and the Metropolitan, 1975-76 the Cox Plate and 76-77 the Doomben 10,000. I remember the $100,000 prize-money threshold was a big deal back in the 70s as were the million dollar winners in the 80s.

Was the 2018 Keith MacKay/Percy Sykes worth $1,000,000? I thought it was $600,000

Offline tontonan

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« 2018-Oct-07, 06:30 PM Reply #177 »
PP7,

I could have sworn we had an argument not so long ago when I mentioned that the Epsom and Metropolitan were 'not as big a deal' as they had been in the past and you jumped down my throat as though I was some sort of Victorian assassin for daring to suggest such a thing.  I produced proof that the comparative staking of the races had declined against other benchmarks and you still would not accept my reasoning.

And what do we have here ?

Why it is a table outlining the comparative staking of feature races and ranking them on an increase index... and the Epsom and the Metropolitan are right down the bottom.  Who woulda thunk it ?

I think you need to have an argument with yourself that ends with you slapping yourself across the back of your head.

Next thing you'll be telling me More Joyous wasn't a genuine 2000m horse.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-07, 08:32 PM Reply #178 »
Interesting figures, PP. Some of those are as you say pretty staggering. The increase in prize-money has far exceeded the increase in average income over the same period although the Epsom and Metropolitan have declined quite a bit in relative prize-money.

Tony Arrold's Racegoer's Handbook from 1978 had a section on the $100,000 races. The first one was the 1971 Melbourne Cup worth $102,000 then the 1972 Perth Cup went from $20,000 the previous year to $100,000.

1973-4 saw the Caulfield Cup, the VRC Derby, the WA Australian Derby, the Golden Slipper, the Doncaster, the Sydney Cup and the Spring Champion Stakes all $100,000 or more.

1974-75 added the AJC Derby, the Epsom and the Metropolitan, 1975-76 the Cox Plate and 76-77 the Doomben 10,000. I remember the $100,000 prize-money threshold was a big deal back in the 70s as were the million dollar winners in the 80s.

Was the 2018 Keith MacKay/Percy Sykes worth $1,000,000? I thought it was $600,000

Next year scheduled to be a $1,000,000 race - same as the Arrowfield Sprint. I have used the list in the link below as the basis for 2018 data so must clarify that the Sykes data is for 2019, not 2018.

http://www.racingaustralia.horse/arb/Group_ListedRaceDates/2018-2019.aspx

From what I can see pwa, normal Saturday racing in both Sydney and Melbourne was around $3,000 in prizemoney per race (the STC in Sydney were a little ahead of that).

Jump forward to today where it is around $125,000 per Saturday race. That is an increase of around 41 times.

Canberra races went from $300 per race to $20,000 per race last Friday - an increase of 66 times.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-07, 10:04 PM Reply #179 »
In 1968 it cost around $36,000 to get a home in the suburb of Campbell ATC.

In 2018 they are offering executive style units off the plan for $1.5 million. A 50's-60's nice looking 4 bedroom home is on the market for $1.3 million.

So you are looking at a price differential of around 50.

Electricity is sold at 1.45c KwH.

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2018-Oct-09, 07:44 AM Reply #180 »
You show the Cup ranking No1 in terms of prizemoney.

Where does the Everest rank? :

That table related to the % increase in prize money for races since 1968, within that table there was reference to the ranking of prize money  today. The Everest did not exist back then therefore to include the race in that table is irrelevant, if it is the richest race today it has no relevance to that table.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2018-Oct-16, 08:06 PM Reply #181 »
PP, the prize money increase from 1968 to now is quite interesting.

Any chance in your spare time to do a post on Current G1s compared to 30 or 40 years ago.

I would be interested in the decline of G1s in some states.


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-16, 08:53 PM Reply #182 »
PP, the prize money increase from 1968 to now is quite interesting.

Any chance in your spare time to do a post on Current G1s compared to 30 or 40 years ago.

I would be interested in the decline of G1s in some states.

The problem with that Jeunes is that I'm sourcing my data from the Canberra Times via Trove and they have no coverage of racing outside of the ACT, NSW and Victoria.

Might have a look around and see if I can find another source.

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Oct-17, 10:11 AM Reply #183 »
Jeune

Here's the prize-money for all 1982-83 G1s. The Tancred Stakes at 5 times as much as the Queen Elizabeth, Mackinnon etc was a surprise. The WA money was still there in the early 80s. The Doomben Cup was also an outlier.

Underwood $40,000
Marlboro Cup $104,000
Spring Champion $120,000
Epsom $120,000
SAJC Oaks $20,000
Metropolitan $120,000
Toorak $102,000
Caulfield Guineas $140,000
Caulfield Stakes $40,000
SAJC Derby $50,000
Thousand Guineas $120,000
Caulfield Cup $252,000
Cox Plate $275,000
VRC Derby $200,000
Mackinnon Stakes $50,000
Pure-Pak Stakes $85,000
Melbourne Cup $310,000
VRC Oaks $125,000
George Adams $116,000
WATC Derby $120,000
Western Mail Classic $130,000
WATC Australian Derby $272,000
Railway Stakes $175,000
Perth Cup $225,000
SAJC Australasian Oaks $130,000
Oakleigh Plate $101,000
Futurity $121,000
Blue Diamond $172,000
Canterbury Guineas $100,000
Newmarket $153,000
Rawson Stakes $50,000
VRC Sires' Produce $60,000
Australian Cup $101,000
Rosehill Guineas $151,000
George Ryder $100,000
Golden Slipper $300,000
Tancred $251,000
AJC Sires' Produce $58,000
Doncaster $150,000
AJC Derby $255,000
Queen Elizabeth Stakes $50,000
AJC Oaks $101,000
AJC All-Aged $50,000
Sydney Cup $171,000
AJC Champagne $60,000
Goodwood Hcp $50,000
Adelaide Cup $100,000
Queensland Oaks $40,000
Queensland Derby $75,000
Stradbroke $152,000
Brisbane Cup $100,000
Doomben 100,000 $122,000
Doomben Cup $180,000
« Last Edit: 2018-Oct-17, 11:14 AM by pwa54 »

Offline Jeunes

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« 2018-Oct-18, 07:41 AM Reply #184 »
Thanks guys.

Quite interesting how Sydney and Melbourne have raced ahead in the prize money stake while others have not grown to that extent.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that the other states also lost G1 race status for some of theirs too while VRC Sires is the only that lose G1 status for the southern states.


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-18, 07:57 AM Reply #185 »
Thanks guys.

Quite interesting how Sydney and Melbourne have raced ahead in the prize money stake while others have not grown to that extent.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that the other states also lost G1 race status for some of theirs too while VRC Sires is the only that lose G1 status for the southern states.

I've made that observation about Sydney and Melbourne a few times Jeunes.

In amongst all the Sydney v Melbourne rivalry, what has been lost in the noise is that the rest of Australia has not had the same growth rate.

FWIW I think all Derbies, Oaks and Sires Produce races should be Group 1 regardless of where they are run.

The reason we have Group racing is so that breeders can advertise that their produce was superior to their peers at level weights in the Sales catalogues. It was never intended as an ego thing.

Upgrade the prizemoney for the VRC Sires to make it Group 1 and run it on the same day as the St Leger i.e. Anzac Day. Fits nicely in between the ATC Sires and the Queensland Sires - which should also be Group 1.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Feb-17, 10:47 AM Reply #186 »
There are plenty of feature race "threepeats" but very few "fourpeats". I can find 5 fourpeats of major races in Australia.

Winx will be going for 4 consecutive Chipping Norton Stakes next start that would make it 6 fourpeats if she wins.

That would equal the achievement of Tie The Knot who won the race between 1999 and 2002.

Winx has also won 4 consecutive Cox Plates (stating the obvious).

Manikato won 5 consecutive William Reid Stakes between 1979 and 1983 when it was a Group 2 event.

Manikato also won 4 Futurities in 1979-1981 and again in 1983. He ran 2nd to Galleon in the 1982 Futurity. The 1979 race came before the Group classifications were introduced but the other three wins were when the race was Group 1.

Lord won 4 consecutive Memsie Stakes between 1958 and 1961.

Cannot find any other fourpeats so if anyone knows of any post them here thanks.

I've got:

Manikato - 5 consecutive William Reid Stakes 1979-1983 (Group 2)
Winx - 4 consecutive Cox Plates 2015-2018 (Group 1)
Tie The Knot - 4 consecutive Chipping Norton Stks 1999-2002 (Group 1)
Lord - 4 consecutive Memsie Stks 1958-1961 (prior to Group Classification)
Manikato - 4 non-consecutive Futurity Stks 1979-1981, 1983 (1979 race prior to Group classification, 1980,1981 and 1983 Group 1)

Offline pwa54

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« 2019-Feb-17, 12:35 PM Reply #187 »
Trafalgar won 4 consecutive Randwick Plates from 1909-12.  I think he's the only one pre-Lord?

Gloaming (4 Canterbury Challenge Stakes 1919, 1921-22 and 1925)  and Sleepy Fox (ARC Easter Handicap 1944-47) "fourpeted" in NZ
« Last Edit: 2019-Feb-17, 12:49 PM by pwa54 »

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Feb-19, 07:32 AM Reply #188 »
Trafalgar won 4 consecutive Randwick Plates from 1909-12.  I think he's the only one pre-Lord?

Gloaming (4 Canterbury Challenge Stakes 1919, 1921-22 and 1925)  and Sleepy Fox (ARC Easter Handicap 1944-47) "fourpeted" in NZ

Thanks PWA

We'll set up a list of 4 (or more) feature race winners:

Australia

Manikato - 5 consecutive William Reid Stakes 1979-1983 (Group 2)
Winx - 4 consecutive Cox Plates 2015-2018 (Group 1)
Tie The Knot - 4 consecutive Chipping Norton Stks 1999-2002 (Group 1)
Lord - 4 consecutive Memsie Stks 1958-1961 (prior to Group Classification)
Manikato - 4 non-consecutive Futurity Stks 1979-1981, 1983 (1979 race prior to Group classification, 1980,1981 and 1983 Group 1)
Trafalgar - 4 consecutive Randwick Plates 1909-1912 (prior to Group Classification)


New Zealand

Gloaming - 4 non-consecutive Canterbury Challenge Stakes 1919, 1921-22, 1925 (prior to Group Classification)
Sleepy Fox - 4 consecutive ARC Easter Hcps 1944-47 (prior to Group Classification)


Hopefully we'll be updating the list after the Chipping Norton.

Sleepy Fox is the only one to have won 4 consecutive handicaps - which is an extra achievement under the assumption his weight would have increased every win.

Offline pwa54

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« 2019-Feb-19, 09:00 AM Reply #189 »
Sleepy Fox had seven starts in Australia, 1945-46 winning the Canterbury Stakes and the Chelmsford Stakes in 1945 but unplaced with 9.13 and 9.8 respectively to Bernborough (carrying 10.2 and 9.13) in the 1946 Futurity and Newmarket.
He had 7 starts in the Easter Handicap, carrying 8.0, 9.5, 10.2 and 9.13 in his victories. He finished 3rd as a 9yo in 1949 with 9.10.
He was an impressive sprinter-miler carrying huge weights in handicaps throughout his long career. Totally forgotten today, but PP is right, the only Australasian horse to win a specific feature handicap 4 times.
« Last Edit: 2019-Feb-20, 09:46 AM by pwa54 »


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