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Offline Colinjohn

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« 2018-Jan-24, 04:27 PM Reply #25 »
I was just looking through Quiz because I knew Tontonan had put up a picture of Bogan Road with A Gallagher in the saddle. The post is still there on 24th of March 2017 but the picture is not. Now Tontonan has put the picture up on Champion Racehorse's. Thanks Tontonan.

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Jan-24, 07:44 PM Reply #26 »
Does anyone know much about the Daily Telegraph Stakes? The 1963 race was 7f and had Wenona Girl, Kilshery, Fine and Dandy, Young Brolga etc, Sky High won in 1961 when it was worth £7000, the biggest first prize Sky High won and worth more than his Golden Slipper and Epsom, and in 1962. By 1963 first prize was halved. It doesn't appear to have been run in 1964.

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2018-Jan-24, 08:17 PM Reply #27 »
Persian Lyric won the 1961 Sunday Telegraph Invitation beating Tulloch and Valerius.

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Jan-24, 08:43 PM Reply #28 »
Thanks JWH.

I looked that up after you posted and that was also a £7000 winner's cheque.

Tulloch got £2000 for 2nd. I also had a look at Tulloch’s first prizes in that 1960-61 season for comparison.

The Craven Plate was worth £1735 to the winner, the Cox Plate £3800, the Mackinnon £1750, the C. B. Fisher Plate £3500, the AJC Queen Elizabeth £2750, the Autumn Stakes £2050 but the Brisbane Cup was worth £8715. No wonder he went up there to finish his career.

Offline tontonan

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« 2018-Jan-24, 08:53 PM Reply #29 »
I was just looking through Quiz because I knew Tontonan had put up a picture of Bogan Road with A Gallagher in the saddle. The post is still there on 24th of March 2017 but the picture is not. Now Tontonan has put the picture up on Champion Racehorse's. Thanks Tontonan.

Colinjohn,

The picture disappeared because the Sporthorse Database from where I source most of these pictures was given a bit of a make over last year and the internet address of each of the pictures changed.  I have been replacing the broken links in the Race Records thread with the new addresses but I still have a few to do.

If you are looking for a picture (or pedigree)  of a historical racehorse go to

https://www.sporthorse-data.com/pedigree

and enter the name of the horse you seek.  You may need to choose between same name alternatives (by breeding) because it is an international database and it covers all equine sports not just horse racing.

Enjoy.

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Jan-24, 09:23 PM Reply #30 »
Thanks Tonto!

I hadn't seen that site.

I had been looking online for an image of a favourite from the early 60s (Summer Regent) and hadn't found one, but there are 2 on there.

Offline Colinjohn

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« 2018-Jan-24, 09:27 PM Reply #31 »
The margins in The Sires' Produce Stakes were Long Head by 1 and 1/2 Lengths.  The margins in The Champagne Stakes were 3/4 by 5 Lengths. Also Bogan Road's first start was on the 4th of October 1961 not the 7th. The Canonbury Stakes was run on Wednesday 4th, The Widden Stakes for fillies was on Saturday 7th.

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Jan-24, 09:44 PM Reply #32 »
Also corrected, thanks CJ.

Apologies again. I doubled up in copying the Sires and Champagne and took "a fortnight ago" in the form guide to mean the 7th October but didn't check.


Offline tontonan

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« 2018-Jan-24, 11:05 PM Reply #33 »
Warning :  :offtopic:

Arthur Gallagher...Arthur Gallagher ... why does that name ring bells ?

Different bloke to the jockey of course but Arthur Gallagher was the name of the villain who shot my brother during getaway from an armed robbery in Northcote in the early 1980's.  My brother was riding his motorbike in pursuit of the getaway car, Arthur was hanging out the window taking pot shots at him.  Most of the shot lodged in his helmet but a few sneaked past his visor and into his cheek.   He didn't even know he'd been injured until he removed his helmet and realized he was bleeding.  Adrenalin.  He was that busy ducking and weaving at high speed - and knowing my bro he was loving it. 

He chased them down an alley where they abandoned the car, and my brother gave pursuit on foot.  They came to a fence they had to scale, and back up had arrived. They shot Arthur in the arse as he straddled the fence. He got something like 20 years for armed robbery and other charges.  And he had lots of form so they put him into Jika Jika which was the then high security division of Melbourne's Pentridge prison. 

They gave my brother a promotion and  the Bravery Medal.  He retires from the police force this year. 

Arthur served a couple of years but when some HIV positive prisoners were admitted to Jika Jika in 1987 Arthur and his mates protested by piling their foam mattresses against the door together with the ping pong table and set fire to it as a protest.  The fire protection system automatically shut all the air vents to the area, the mattresses gave off a toxic smoke  and Arthur and his mates suffocated.   48 hours later Jika Jika was closed forever.  10 years later so was Pentridge.  Its all history now.



Offline tontonan

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« 2018-Jan-25, 10:49 AM Reply #34 »
Judging from Maurie Cavanough's The Melbourne Cup 1861-1982 the change from 1/4's to 1/5ths and 1/10ths took place in the very year of Bogan Road's ascendance.  I will bet my boots Maurice  took his record from the Turf registers and the account of the times in the Cup results changed format in 1962 when Even Stevens is reported to have won in 3.21.4. 

Offline Colinjohn

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« 2018-Jan-25, 11:17 AM Reply #35 »
Yes Tontonan it looks like it that very year. I have the Ampol Australian Sporting Records book and Melbourne Cup times 1958 3.21.25, 1959 3.23.0, 1960 3.23.75, 19613.19.5, 1962 Even Stevens 3.21.4, 19633.21.1.

Offline Colinjohn

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« 2018-Jan-25, 11:36 AM Reply #36 »
Story on page three of The Sun-Herald on 1st July 1962.

Well known Sydney Jockey A Gallagher was killed yesterday in a racecourse crash at Bourke.
He was apparently galloped on by another horse after his mount fell in a race.
He was on Angkor in the Diggers' Race Club Cup, the main race at the Bourke Diggers meeting
Angkor fell and Gallagher was thrown heavily.
When on the ground, one of the other horses in the race appeared to gallop over him.
He died from chest injuries.
Gallagher was regular rider of champion colt Bogan Road.
He had won nine races this season on Sydney Metropolitan courses, mostly on Bogan Road.

Offline Colinjohn

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« 2018-Jan-25, 11:48 AM Reply #37 »
Race times appeared to change in Sydney in 1956. 1954 3.21.75, 1955 3.29.5, 1956 3.30.4. Times for The Sydney Cup.

Offline Colinjohn

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« 2018-Jan-25, 12:29 PM Reply #38 »
Arthur Gallagher was buried at Rookwood Cemetery on Monday 2nd of July 1962. He left behind a wife and two children. Six of the nine Metrop winners he rode that season were on Bogan Road. As I said earlier a very sad story.

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Jan-25, 02:59 PM Reply #39 »
Maybe it was a bit earlier than 1962 at other Melbourne courses though? Tulloch's Caulfield Cup was 2 26.9.

A "photo electric timing device" measuring in tenths of seconds was to be the "accepted official times for all races" from late 1953 at Cheltenham according to the Adelaide Advertiser. Was South Australia ahead of the pack? The Adelaide Cup times from 1952 were in tenths of seconds.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/48925564?searchTerm=timing%20of%20races&searchLimits=l-decade=195

« Last Edit: 2018-Jan-25, 03:16 PM by pwa54 »

Offline tontonan

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« 2018-Jan-25, 03:15 PM Reply #40 »
Race times appeared to change in Sydney in 1956.

That is because they stopped using this ....



This is the old Randwick Chronometer which did the race timing from 1910 to the 1950's.

 Like its Flemington relative...



it was mounted on the back of the judge's box.

Flemington's was installed even earlier.  You can see it in this ancient 1896 photograph of the finish of the Champion Stakes (Wallace dead heating with Quiver)


Offline tontonan

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« 2018-Jan-25, 03:24 PM Reply #41 »
Maybe it was a bit earlier than 1962 at other Melbourne courses though? Tulloch's Caulfield Cup was 2 26.9.

A "photo electric timing device" measuring in tenths of seconds was to be the "accepted official times for all races" from late 1953 at Cheltenham according to the Adelaide Advertiser. Was South Australia ahead of the pack? The Adelaide Cup times from 1952 were in tenths of seconds.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/48925564?searchTerm=timing%20of%20races&searchLimits=l-decade=195



It would have been whenever the club invested in the new technology so the date would be staggered across several years.

It is interesting that Cheltenham was using photo-electric timing which suggests the clock was integrated with the photo finish (which is essentially the system we have today)  There wouldn't be uniformity for several years which is why you will find different formats at different courses as well hand timing in ¼'s which persisted at more modest tracks.
« Last Edit: 2018-Jan-25, 03:27 PM by tontonan »

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Jan-25, 03:52 PM Reply #42 »
Jack Pollard wrote that from the introduction of barrier stalls and photo-finish cameras all races were electronically timed.

The 1948 Melbourne Cup showed that they needed a while to get the cameras right though!

It's unusual that Flemington was slower to officially record tenths of seconds but it was of no consequence.

Offline Colinjohn

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« 2018-Jan-25, 04:07 PM Reply #43 »
Seems that The VATC made it happen before The VRC. Oakleigh Plate 1956 1.4.25. 1957 1.3.9. Newmarket Hcp. 1962 1.11.25.  1963 1.10.6.

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Jan-25, 04:16 PM Reply #44 »
And Moonee Valley even earlier, Hydrogen 1953 Cox Plate 2.05.25 1954 Rising Fast 2.03.8.

Offline tontonan

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« 2018-Jan-25, 06:19 PM Reply #45 »
How Races are Timed on
Melbourne Courses

By "Musket"


It is claimed that a horse named
Blue Pete put up a world's time record
(l.33.0) for a mile at Lingfield
(England) in July, but the manner
in which the time was taken has
called forth adverse criticism in England.
The Statement of one lending
authority, published in 'the Sporting Globe'
 last week, was to the effect
that the watch-holder who supplied
the time to the press was In the
press box which is the best part of a
furlong away from the winning post
It was pointed that the time was
not reliably taken, and the writer
added- "We can therefore, forget
about Blue Pete's record performance".
The fact that such laxity is displayed
in the recognition of time records in England
prompts the question
as to the position in Australia
in similar circumstances. In England
the clubs do not have a clock,
as Is the case on leading Australian
courses.  The chronograph, operated
by hand, is used.   Of course, this
also Is used on some Australian
courses, but it is noticeable that the
authorities do not recognise times
that are recorded on racecourses when
the Stop watch only is employed, with
the exception of those in New Zealand.
Now it is said that the Victorian
authorities in future are not
goIng to recognise New Zealand race
times, and the list of records will be
known as Australian insteod of Australasian.
It is noticeable that, eight
records are held at Randwick. while
Victoria can claim only one record—
 five and a half furlongs at
Caulfleld In 1.6¼.

There Is little doubt about the accuracy
of thr clock, such as that used
at Flemington. Similar clocks are
Installed al Caulfield, randwick, Newcastle
Victoria Park (Sydney) Victoria Park
(South Australia) and Kalgoorlie .
 Messrs. Gaunt and Co..
the makers, recently sent one to Durban
 and similar clocks are in use at
Calcutta, Wellington (N.Z). and
Johannesburg.

It may not be generally known
that the system of timing races with
the clock is not the same at Flemington
as it is at Randwick.  At the last named
course the clock, at the rear
of the judge's box, is started automatically
by an electric attachment
he arm of each burlier. At the barrier
 ascends it lifts a plug from a slot
and the clock is started. As the
winner "breasts the tape" the clock
is stopped by the time-keeper in the
judge's box.

The system at Flemington is somewhat
different. The human element
enters into it on a bigger scale—the
clock being both started and stopped
by hand. The course is wired round
villi two wires. At each Starting
point there is a terminal with a press
button eight feet from the ground.
These press buttons are enclosed in
small cast-iron boxes, locked, one key
fitting the whole of the boxes. The
wires are carried to the back of the
judge's box where the chronograph
is erected. They are connected with
an electrical "sounder" fixed inside
the case of the clock, and hence to the
mechanism of the chronograph
movement. The same wire travels
on to the "starting bell."

The timekeeper stands on a raised
step, so that he can see the finish of
over the head of the judge.  His
assistant presses the button at the
barrier when the starter releases
the machine or says "Go!." This starts
the chronograph and sounds the Starting
bell.  When the winner passes the
line the timekeeper stops the clock as
described, and the exact time is shown
to the public at the rear of the
judge's box.

This system has been in operation
in Victoria for a great number of
years, but it is likely that when the
remodeling of the Flemington course
has been completed it will be found
that timing will be carried out by
means of the barrier attachment
similar to that used at Randwick '
It is said that the clock system
was first used at Flemington about 48
years ago. It has given entire satisfaction.
Mr Heath, the official time keeper,
has been Acting for the club
for 32 years. He uses a split-second
stop-watch from his stand in the
judge's box in order to take sectional
times of races.  He says that he finds
that a timekeeper in the box does not
"get" the release of the barrier as
quickly as the clock, and therefore
the stop-watch always Is always liable
to make the time a little faster than is
really the case.

A slightly different system to that
at Flemington is employed at
Williamstown.  There on electric wire
with press button Is used, but instead
of starling a large chronograph, as
at headquarters, it "punches" the top
of a large stop-watch. In addition
the timekeeper takes the time with
a hand watch. The system has been
found to be very reliable.

Inquiries have been made from Mr
Heath at different times regarding the
electric method of timing races by
racing clubs in America, South Africa
and Germany, but they have not yet
considered the improvement worth
cost. Race times are an important
feature of the  turf and one to which
each club should give serious consideration.

Sporting Globe (Melbourne, Vic. : 1922 - 1954)  Wed 10 Sep 1924  Page 6 [/u]]
Sporting Globe (Melbourne, Vic. : 1922 - 1954)  Wed 10 Sep 1924  Page 6


Note :  The Chronograph was first installed at Flemington on 3 November 1876 in time for Briseis legendary carnival.  She ran records in both the Victoria Derby and the Melbourne Cup.
« Last Edit: 2018-Jan-25, 06:37 PM by tontonan »

Offline nemisis

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« 2018-Jan-28, 11:18 AM Reply #46 »
On  Sobig, I always felt he was the stallion who changed NZ's breeders views on the homebred.

He made an immediate impact with his first crop and Kirrama was an outstanding 3 yr old.

Prior to him homebred's were considered the poor relation and breeders would have been struggling to get any into the major sales.
Many believed they were leaving classless one pacer types but Sobig was good enough to leave high class types  like Soliloquy who was a top sprinter all the through to Think Big.
 
When I first developed an interest in racing most Sires in NZ seem to be imports from UK and were either.... half brothers or 3/4 brothers in blood to champions and also a lot of unraced or retired early because of injury.

Off topic a bit but Kirrama lost all form after his 3 yr season and was given a stable change.
I was doing a bit of building work for a few trainers and one of them gained Kirrama.

It felt pretty good being in his presence so on my first day I thought  I would go and give him a bit of a pat.
Instead of the usual stable door his had a mesh on it so you could not get your hand through so I pushed my carpenter's pencil through and with one bite it was gone.
He was just a huge bull with a very nasty side.

Kirrama did stand at stud and I think Rustler may have been left entire but don't think the male line had much success.

Kirrama did leave Taihape a real one pace stayer in Sydney though and who  could cop about 100 strokes of Tony Marneys whip and still keep going.
« Last Edit: 2018-Jan-28, 11:20 AM by nemisis »

Offline sobig

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« 2018-Jan-28, 02:06 PM Reply #47 »
Sobig was a magnificent looking horse and his dam Passive was a very good racehorse in her time.

He never really lived up to his looks and breeding on the racecourse although a reasonable record as I recall.

He made up for that as a stallion

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Jan-28, 02:49 PM Reply #48 »
Here's an article by Turf Monthly's Warwick Hobson from 1990 on Tauto. Tauto was never an out-and-out champion but still, as Warwick Hobson points out, 10 placings in Group 1 handicaps and only one win is probably a record!

Tauto won 5 current G1s and was second 11 times in current G1s. He had 71 starts 16/17/7.

Tauto: The Bush Horse Who Beat The Best

When the year 1970 dawned on the turf world, Tauto, so far as racehorses go, was next-door to a nobody. Before the year was out, however, all that had changed.

Tauto, a 4yo gelded bay, by Good Brandy from San Patricia, was racing around Victoria’s Provincial Circuit, picking up the odd win in restricted company. Tauto wasn’t a horse anyone would take seriously in top city company. Until trainer Bob Agnew bought his “bush” horse to town.

In two seasons and seven race starts, Tauto had won 4 races – at Penshurst, Hamilton and Ballarat (twice). The first time the “city slickers” saw the gelding was in the Salisbury Welter in the Autumn of 1970. He ran 4th. At his next start, on March 7th, Tauto, at 16-1, started in the VRC Newmarket Handicap, and caught just about everyone by surprise by rattling home into second place behind the nation’s top sprinter, Black Onyx.

The 1970 Newmarket was the start of Tauto’s rise on the turf but also marked the beginning of his ill-luck in big races. Tauto won 16 races in his career but he was the runner-up 17 times – on 6 occasions in Group One Handicaps!

After his second, beaten by Black Onyx, in the 1970 Newmarket, Tauto was again second in the same race in 1974, a half-head behind Coolalinga.

In the 1970 VRC Craven Stakes (now the Gadsden Stakes) it took a champion in Dual Choice and a record time of 1 minute 9 seconds for the six-furlongs to oust Tauto by half-a-head. Earlier that same year, Tauto was beaten less than a length by Crown Lad in the SAJC Goodwood Handicap (6f).

In the Autumn of 1971, Tauto was the bridesmaid in the AJC Doncaster Handicap (1m), one-and-a-quarter lengths behind Rajah Sahib, and that Spring he was unlucky to strike another “great” when second, beaten by five lengths by Gunsynd in the VRC George Adams (1m – forerunner of the Ampol Stakes).

If that wasn’t bad enough Tauto was placed second in the 1971 VRC Newmarket, third in the 1971 VATC Toorak Handicap and third in the 1973 SAJC Goodwood Handicap. He did break through, however, to win the 1970 Toorak Handicap.

How many horses can you name that were placed in 10 Group One handicaps but only won one!

That’s the astonishing statistic which haunted Tauto on the racetrack. Not that the “bush” horse did not receive a fair measure of compensation. One of his greatest victories came the day Tauto defied the country’s best middle-distance horses to win the 1971 Moonee Valley W. S. Cox Plate, beating Igloo, Beau Sovereign, Gunsynd, Rajah Sahib, Tails, Classic Mission and Silver Knight!

Tauto went postward at 12-1 for the Cox Plate. Igloo, runner-up in the Caulfield Cup, was the 11-4 favourite. Len Hill, however, took Tauto straight to the front and the game frontrunning gelding defied Igloo’s [finish] to win by a half length.

The $21,000 first prize in the Cox Plate took Tauto’s earnings over the $100,000 mark, then quite a milestone on the turf. Nowadays the Cox Plate winner becomes an instant millionaire!

From his home base at Dunkeld, 250 kilometres outside Melbourne, Tauto continued his raids on the major Racing Carnivals of Victoria, New South Wales, South Australia and Queensland until he was nine years old.

His wins included the VATC Invitation Stakes (twice), VATC Victoria Handicap, MVRC Alister Clark Stakes, VATC JJ Liston Stakes (twice) and the MVRC Freeway Stakes (twice).

Apart from his second placings in Group One handicaps, Tauto was also second in the VATC Futurity Stakes (to Idolou with Gunsynd third); VRC Lightning Stakes (twice – to Dual Choice and Zambari); VRC Craiglee Stakes (to Dual Choice); VRC Linlithgow Stakes (twice – to All Shot on both occasions); VATC Victoria Handicap (conceding 12kg to the winner Nicopal); and the MVRC William Reid Stakes (to All Shot).

Tauto raced for seven seasons, from three years to nine years, and won in every season he raced. He was a real favourite with racegoers who never begrudged him any success, even when he upset spirited plunges on other horses. Like the 1974 Freeway Stakes at Moonee Valley, Tauto’s last success on the racetrack.

Taj Rossi and Love Loft both firmed from 8-1 to 5-1 equal favourites in a wide betting market but at the post it was the perennial Tauto by one-and-a-quarter lengths from Love Aloft and Millefleurs, with Taj Rossi fourth.

In his last campaign in the Autumn of 1975, Tauto failed to win in six starts.

Tauto ran his last race in the 1975 Wangoom Handicap at Warrnambool, where it all started seven years before in a Maiden Handicap at the same track.

Offline Colinjohn

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« 2018-Jan-28, 03:12 PM Reply #49 »
Who were the two jockey's who rode him to victory in The Invitation Stakes?


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